McCain...Reinstitute the Draft?

R

Robert J McElwain

New member
Is this likely? Is it a good idea?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/972184/john_mccain_to_reenact_military_draft.html?cat=9

John McCain to Reenact Military Draft?
Where Wanting to and Actually Doing Could Be Two Very Different Things

By saul relative, published Aug 21, 2008
Associated Press


Does Senator John McCain intend to reenact the military draft when he becomes president? McCain has said a few things over the past few months that would suggest that he might. And even if his intentions are toward reinstituting a military draft, will he be able to do it?

In a town-hall meeting in New Mexico yesterday, a woman stood up and told McCain that the treatment of American veterans with regard to health care was deplorable when illegal immigrants could go on Medicaid and get health services they needed. Then she said, "If we don't reenact the draft I don't think we will have anyone to chase Bin Laden to the gates of hell."

McCain replied: "Ma'am, let me say that I don't disagree with anything you said and thank you and I am grateful for your support of all of our veterans."

Editorialists, journalists, pundits, and bloggers are going absolutely ballistic over McCain's response. Speculation, for the most part, is running toward the affirmative on reinstitution. Most point toward the fact that Senator McCain did not disagree with the woman in New Mexico, which means that he believes a military draft will be necessary to continue the War on Terror. Some analysts point toward McCain's stated commitment to building up the nation's armed forces without explaining exactly how that can be done without a draft and when recruiting has fallen to record lows. And some point to another town-hall meeting in New Hampshire where McCain stated he might consider a military draft if one could be designed where everyone would serve equally. And the most common prop for the argument is McCain's now infamous remarks about maintaining an American military presence in Iraq for 100 years (if necessary).
 
I believe the draft is necessary if America is to remain a super power however
there is no way McCain will do so.
 
SOMEBODY is going to HAVE to re-institute the draft--no way around it and it will probably be our next president no matter who it is.
There are going to be wars on different fronts with different countries and in order to protect our interests, we WILL need more troops.
Look how thin we are stretched now, look what Russia is doing, today on Fox, it was reported that Kuwait is gearing up---Iran is a constant threat etc. etc.
Many of our troops are being forced to do extended tours and many are exhausted and beat up.
There will be a draft sooner or later.
 
If any of the candiadates even mention anything about the draft they can kiss winning goodbye. Either will have to wait till they are in office to try something like that.
 
R.A. Heinlein said:
I also think there are prices too high to pay to save the United States. Conscription is one of them. Conscription is slavery, and I don't think that any people or nation has a right to save itself at the price of slavery for anyone, no matter what name it is called. We have had the draft for twenty years now; I think this is shameful. If a country can't save itself through the volunteer service of its own free people, then I say: Let the damned thing go down the drain!
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I could not agree more.
 
No doubt Gilfo, your right--it won't be any different from any other broken promise or " unforeseen" problem that any other administration had.
They won't talk about it for MANY reasons, but they'll HAVE to do it sooner or later.
 
No doubt Gilfo, your right--it won't be any different from any other broken promise or " unforeseen" problem that any other administration had.
They won't talk about it for MANY reasons, but they'll HAVE to do it sooner or later.
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It sounds like McCain has already talked about it. And, it seems, he's not denying or back off from what he said.

OTOH, I can't imagine Obama endorsing the draft.
 
There isn't going to be a draft, nor should there be.

You have a draft when you face an existential threat.

We don't face an existential threat.

And how big a military do YOU want to pay for in a time when we don't face a Nazi Germany/Soviet Union level threat?

How many more Army and Marine divisions?

Ships for the Navy, planes for the Air Force?

How big do you make the draft in order to make it "fair" to everybody?

Do you want to pay for all those extra tanks, howitzers, humvees, radios, radars, computers, office furniture, tool boxes, bunk beds, spare tires, track pads, yada, yada, yada?

I sure don't.
 
And how big a military do YOU want to pay for in a time when we don't face a Nazi Germany/Soviet Union level threat?

I guess you have not been watching the news lately ---you may have noticed what Russia is doing in Poland because we are going to put a missile defense system in---they even threatened the use of nuclear weapons.
Didn't you see that??
Did you happen to catch President Bush's response and what Conny Rice said??
I am not saying the draft will be next week, I am saying that there will be one in our not to distant future IMO.

What we do not want to pay for doesn't matter a rat's red a$$--never has.
When we can't get enough troops to defend our interests, there will be a draft.
 
There isn't going to be a draft, nor should there be.

You have a draft when you face an existential threat.

We don't face an existential threat.

And how big a military do YOU want to pay for in a time when we don't face a Nazi Germany/Soviet Union level threat?

How many more Army and Marine divisions?

Ships for the Navy, planes for the Air Force?

How big do you make the draft in order to make it "fair" to everybody?

Do you want to pay for all those extra tanks, howitzers, humvees, radios, radars, computers, office furniture, tool boxes, bunk beds, spare tires, track pads, yada, yada, yada?
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I'd like McCain to answer those questions since he seems to be the one suggesting it.
 
Having lived through the VietNam draft period, I can't see a reinstitution of the draft without the existential Martian invasion level of threat. Why - I will stress the pragmatics as compared to the philosophical.

The past draft had outs that the elite used for their kids: School, hoked up medical excuses, special soft spots in the National Guard and the like.

Cheney, Bush, Clinton - all played this game to avoid combat.

You could also avoid the draft by being gay if you were willing to push that in a society that was much more restrictive than today. Being gay is still not acceptable if you out yourself in the service.

There is also the issue of gender.

So:

1. After the VietNam experience, the country will not tolerate the loopholes. Everyone of good health (strictly determined) would have to go. The elite aren't sending their kids off to war. The Bush twins and the Romney lads are not being grunts. Horrors!!

2. Gender - lawsuits by men if women are not subject to the draft. Lawsuits by women that they should be subject to the draft. We now know that women can serve so why should males have to go and females be immune.

3. Sexual orientation - say you are gay and you don't go. Wave bye bye to the heterosexual warriors. Given the reduced stigma today - lots of new gays by declaration. After the war, go to Preacher Bob and Halleujah , I'm straight again. Suits by gays that they want to be subject to the draft as an equal rights thing. So is McCain going near that one?

IMHO, he was just having a senior military moment and agreed with the woman as he didn't want disagree with a surface patriotric coment.

Unless, the Emperor of Mongo appears in the skies - no draft.
 
Many of these things are already being addressed, you have to pay attention.
The rich kid perk, the college student perk, etc. have been being discussed for years now.
 
I can't speak for the other branches of service...but the Airforce isn't trying to keep folks in. They are reducing by the thousands every year.

In a briefing, One CMSgt stated that the AF goal was to reduce to 80,000 strong by the year 2031. We are currently just above 300,000.

I don't see a draft comming when we are getting rid of what we have now.
 
Conscription is slavery
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I always get such a laugh waiting for the above to appear in a draft thread, condescending as heck to people that were true slaves in the past.

If we continue with our current policies as the world police force while absorbing much of the third world work force we will need the draft, simply if you want to be here serve at least 2 years........ America needs a rotating semi-trained force at all times but I do agree most politicians well let America fail before starting the draft again.

If your not willing to serve please don't talk about going to war.!!
 
Right know, the trend is towards technology--not a bad thing by any means.
The Air Force is working on unmanned fighters right now.
The last big terrorist that was taken out was taken out by an unmanned bomber---pretty impressive.
Still, WHEN we are in multiple theaters, we will need "boots on the ground".
I just think that with Russia gearing up again, the whole middle east a powder keg just waiting to explode and all the other things going on that a draft is inevitable in our future.
Just look at all the extended tours our current soldiers are serving to fight/police one little mid eastern country---what would happen if we had to go to Georgia and Poland??
 
Clearly making people fight wars for company profit is a great idea, American lives really aren't worth near as much $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

If a draft ever starts, the VietNam era riots are going to look like child's play and the country will fall apart.
 
I always get such a laugh waiting for the above to appear in a draft thread, condescending as heck to people that were true slaves in the past.
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Thank your for your service. Doubly thank you if you volunteered. Apologies is you were forced against every principal this nation was founded upon.

slave n.
1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
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If that person or household is the gov't I think slavery is a good description of conscription. When you can be forced under pain of imprisonment or death to do work for another, be it digging a ditch or fighting a war, you are a slave unless you volunteered for that position.

If you volunteer to join then you are bound to follow the orders given you but that is very different than being forced to join in the first place. Given that the conscript can be dragged from home and thrown at certain death on the other side of the planet with no say whatsoever I would think a comparison to slavery very appropriate.
 
+1 to Musketeer for the Heinlein quote and his latest response.

As an active duty military member I must say that if a person doesn't WANT to the in the military...I don't want them serving by my side. They may be more dangerous and unpredictable than the enemy.
 
So, lets say a country does not get enough volunteers to defend itself, what do you propose?
What would YOUR solution be?
What do you think an invading force would do to the occupants of a defeated country?
I guess, if you were a coward, you would lick their boots, learn their language, learn to love their food, give up your possessions, work for free in THEIR factories, inform on your countrymen, etc. etc.
BUT never fight for your way of life or family.

I know, if WE were invaded it would be different right??
So, I guess we could sit and wait for that---wait for some country to come to our shores and then fight.

You say:

If that person or household is the gov't I think slavery is a good description of conscription. When you can be forced under pain of imprisonment or death to do work for another, be it digging a ditch or fighting a war, you are a slave unless you volunteered for that position.

If you have no one in your life that you feel is worth fighting for, I feel sorry for you.
I am glad my uncles,cousins, and father did not feel that way---otherwise, I guess I would be speaking Japanese and eating sushi.
 
Unless we are invaded, I see no reason to fight. We aren't the worlds police force, America looks out for Americans.
 
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