McCain appearing in Anti Ad

What the heck is a "private dealer" anyway? If you are a licensed dealer, then you are in business and aren't private. If it's a private sale, i.e., individual-to-individual, then it's not business related. No?

I think we are allowing ourselves to be sucked in to accepting and using some language that is product of the antis. Like "Private Dealer". I agree that "Gunshow loophole" is another example. Pure invention.

They're changing the language.
 
JT: Thank you for the links. I'll read asap.
Sensop: I regularly attend one of the largest gun shows in my state. The only difference that I see between "private" and licensed dealers,is that the "private" don't sell new guns and they don't take American Express...or any other charge card. They have a table at every show;they have numerous used guns,and their inventory changes every show. There is a gun store about a block from the fairgrounds where the show is held, and he is close to going out of business. He is not too happy that he is required to operate by a different set of rules then the "private " sellers at the quarterly show.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that if Joe Schmoe wanted to sell his personal firearm to Joe Schmuckatelli, the transfer must go through a licensed dealer, (FFL'er). Hence an automatic background check via the same system that is in place if Joe Schmuckatelli wanted to purchase a used firearm from that same (FFL'er) dealer.

cnn.com is also running this story under the headline of McCain's position has "evolved" . I guess Darwin was wrong.

[This message has been edited by echo3mike (edited October 06, 2000).]
 
Echo3mike: That depends on state law. In Ohio a resident can buy from a "private dealer" at a gun show with no background check and without ID. It is strictly cash and carry. I am not talking about person to person sales- I am talking about dealers with a table full of used guns who are present at every gun show in the area. A month ago I walked into a show with two guns in my hands and walked out 30 minutes later with two different guns. I don't know the seller and he doesn't know me. There was no exchange of information of any kind. I see him at every show. Personally, I don't have a problem with this but I can see why many people do.

[This message has been edited by ATTICUS (edited October 06, 2000).]
 
Are you out of your minds?!? Guns are the killer of our children. If children can get guns through this "loophole" then we need to remove that. If guns were just taken away we wouldn't have had this problem. The truth is that guns are evil. If it was up to me I'd get rid of you evil causing CRIMINALS and we'd all get to live in a safe world again. You gun owners think that you are protecting the people. Well you are wrong and it's not your place to protect the people. That's the Cops job. Why do you think we have 911?


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Guns don't kill people,
People who own guns kill people
 
Bringthelove,

Welcome to TFL! :)

It will be refreshing to explain to a neophyte "law" person what the Constitution is all about.

Fasten your safety belt. You're in for forty miles o' bad road (unless you chicken out and bail). :D
-----

All,

Now y'all take it easy on Bringthelove and we just might be able to convert a thinker! ;)

Play nice now, ya hear!

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
It's not my place to protect the people, but it is my place to protect my family. I live in a rural area, and it has taken police over 45 minutes to respond. If you want to have a rational discussion, please stop throwing insults at us, and actually have a point to make when you type something.
 
Bringthelove, no offense, but you don't seem very sure of what you think on this issue. On one line, you call us "evil-causing CRIMINALS," but in the next sentence, you claim to know that we think we're protecting the people. Those are diametrically opposed definitions of who we are. You've been here long enough to make three posts, but already you know all about us? And we are simultaneously two exactly opposite groups? That's simply impossible by any standard. You haven't thought this through.

Guns are not the "killers of our children." Guns are not the killers of anyone at all, ever, anywhere, for any reason. Guns are inanimate objects. They don't have minds, hearts, souls, wills or whatever else you want to call it--they don't think or feel. They don't make the decision to kill someone. And once a person HAS made the decision to kill someone, he doesn't need a gun to do it.

As for children getting guns through a "loophole," that's not the big issue you seem to think it is. It's not even a loophole; a loophole would imply that there's a gap in the intention of the law, usually a small one. This is not such a gap; there is simply no law against selling your gun to someone else, and why should there be? No criminal would obey it anyway. I know, I know, the girl who sold the gun to the Columbine monsters says she wouldn't have done it if she'd had to take a background check. Well, guess what? She's LYING. She lied to get the gun in the first place and she broke the law to give it to the killers. That didn't stop her because she didn't care about breaking laws.

I live in Illinois where it's illegal to sell anyone a gun (or even let them touch one) without checking that they have a valid "FOID" firearms license. We also have the second-highest murder rate in the midwest, far more than places like Indiana, Missouri and Kentucky which border us and have much less restrictive gun control. In other words, criminals in Illinois DO NOT OBEY THE GUN LAWS. This shouldn't come as a surprise, but somehow it often does.
 
Me thinks, me smells, a Troll! Me thinks, me knows the identity of the Troll. If the Troll be who I thinks, I have but one thing to say - Bad boy, go to bed, no Athlon T-Bird or Play Station 2 for you! I'll know for sure tomorrow.

If I'm wrong, and this Anti is for real, why are we wasting our time? This is one of those "we will all live in peace after WE MURDER all of you" type. You just can't reason with a deranged mind.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bringthelove:
Are you out of your minds?!? Guns are the killer of our children. If children can get guns through this "loophole" then we need to remove that. If guns were just taken away we wouldn't have had this problem. The truth is that guns are evil. If it was up to me I'd get rid of you evil causing CRIMINALS and we'd all get to live in a safe world again. You gun owners think that you are protecting the people. Well you are wrong and it's not your place to protect the people. That's the Cops job. Why do you think we have 911?[/quote]
Anti's are so stupid. There is a difference between selling to a private party and selling to a minor. As for 911....well we have that so we can call someone to clean up the blood of the victim that wasn't armed.
 
OK Bringthelove, in this post I break down step by step everything you said or asked. Be prepared for reality and fact.


re you out of your minds?!? Hmmm.No.
Guns are the killer of our children. Gangsters, murderers, rapists, and burglerers are the killers of our children, not law abiding citizens with a constitutional/god given right to protect himself, and family, and hunt for food. The killers of our children will be the tyranical government once you take away the citizens rights to protect onesself. Have you seen the news? Over in the middle east and afrika, it's the government killing men women and children. It's happened in the history anywhere that the government has stripped away the defences. GERMANY, CUBA, RUSSIA, and too many more to list. If you help in the crusade to take away our defence YOU ARE KILLING THE CHILDREN.
If children can get guns through this "loophole" then we need to remove that.Kids don't get the gun through this "loophole" if you want to call it that. It is still illegal to sell a person under 18 a rifle, or under 21 a hundgun. How do you explain the alcohol or drugs loophole? kids still get those, even though there is NO PLACE in the US were it is legal for them to do this. If you outlaw guns, which I know is your overall intent, they will buy them from other countries, just like cocain is grown in Columbia as the cocoa plant. It is illegally grown and processed into cocain. Then illegally smuggled across countless borders, and then illegally sold in the US, and then Illegally purified into Crack Cocain, and then illegally sold on the streets, where your 13 year old kid can Illegally buy and smoke it all they want. AND THIS HAPPENS IN EVERY MAJOR CITY!!! HOW THE F#CK DO YOU PLAN TO GET ALL THE AMERICAN MADE GUNS OFF THE STREET???
If guns were just taken away we wouldn't have had this problem. Oh ya think?? Has that worked in DC, or Chicago, or anywhere else they have outlawed guns? Do you really think the drug dealers, and serial killers are just going to turn in their guns?? Now that the honest citizens are unarmed the criminals have free-reign over anyone they want to kill, mug or rape. And they don't have to worry about who may be armed. BECAUSE NOBODY IS!!! Violent Crime in cities like this, and countries like this has increased ATLEAST 3-fold. This is not the solution.
The truth is that guns are evil. Know you're just being plain stupid. Guns, or any inanimate objects for that matter, aren't evil, or loving, or what ever have you. They just sit there on the ground until somebody pics them up, and uses them for either good or bad. If guns are evil, why do cops have them? If it was up to me I'd get rid of you evil causing CRIMINALS and we'd all get to live in a safe world again. No, if it were up to you, we'd shoot you in the head, and then we'd have a safe world. The world will not be safe at all once you disarm the honest god loving people. How do you supposed to "get rid of the criminals" when the people you call criminals have guns, and you don't? actually you are the criminal. You wish to take away our guns, and by law you can't do that, and we have the right to own them. And you are evil, if you would try to take away our only means to protect our family.
You gun owners think that you are protecting the people. Well you are wrong and it's not your place to protect the people. I never said I'm protecting the people, I said I'm protecting my family, and myself, and my rights to freedom and happiness. If I saw somelady getting mugged or raped in an alley, I'd probably go help. And yes, it is my duty as a christian to help people in need.
That's the Cops job. Why do you think we have 911? Oh, are you refering to the cops with the "evil guns??" They probably wouldn't get to anyones house in time anymore anyway. You see, criminals used to have to be quite, and sneak in the home to rob you and catch you buy surprise, but now that nobody is armed that is no-longer a problem. They park out front, walk to the front door and shoot the damn lock, you wake up screaming and dial 911 (lines are busy, this is happening all over the country now, and even if you do get through, it'll be 20-30 minutes till they can send somebody out.) The burgler walks to the bedroom, and shoots your kids, who are screaming histerically, then walks in your room, and shoots you and and anyones else who may be in there. Calmly robs you of everything, and drives away within 10 minutes. Even if you do outlaw factory guns, and selling of guns, and gun show, and hunting, and everything else, people will make guns, they've been doing it for years, they do it in prison, and everywhere else. What is 911 for? So they know where to find the body, you see, after they've shot everyone, they'll be no-one to call in the crime.
You anti's don't know it, but an armed populace is what keeps the streets relatively safe. If people were taught gun safety, preferably in schools, then tehy would know that they aren't toys, and shouldn't be played with. But you won't have any of this rational talk, you just rant and rave, you've got an agenda, and I understand that. So, vary-well then, go back to your dark room of denial, and tell your self that this is all just a bad dream. But some day in the future it may actually be a bad dream, and yoiu'll look back at today and say "we were living in a fairy tell, almost too good to be true!" This is a fairy tell. We have a strong economy, we run the government the way we want it run, and we can worship any god we want too. We have the right, and the means to protect ourselves, and we're the most successfull and powerful government in the history of this world. But some people can't see that. They get greety and want MORE MORE MORE. Well, you'll get more. More violence, more poverty, and more war.




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IF you're not willing to die for your rights/beliefs, don't try to take mine.
 
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