Maximum Powder Charges for handgun

B

Bucksnort1

New member
All,

I load several handgun calibers. Without question, I never load more than the minimum recommended charge. We are warned to never exceed maximum charges. I'm wondering. How dangerous is it to load the maximum charge? I'm asking because I was loading .357 JHP, 110 grain bullets. I made it to about the tenth round then decided I would do my normal QC check on powder by measuring one throw (this is a routine of mine) from my RCBS Uniflow Powder measure. The minimum charge for this bullet for Unique is 8.5grains and the maximum is 9.5, per Speer #11. The quality check measured 9.3. This is the first time I've seen this much of a variance with the Uniflow.

I set aside the cartridges with 9.3 grains thinking I would pull bullets and start from scratch; however, I'm wondering if I should shoot them.
 
I would not shoot them Bucksnort11 without first working up loads by about 0.3gr at a time or even less to be sure all's well in my handguns. Maximum loads may or may not be dangerous in your firearms. BTW, I find that Unique is one of the poorest flowing pistol powders I use. I dislike it for the very reason you describe.
 
sparky, I will pull bullets.

I'm trying to use my Unique powder because I have a lot of it at least, it's lot for me.

Thanks for the advice.
 
There is no reason to pull bullets at this stage. Try some loads with less powder and see how the gun reacts - how easily the brass extracts, etc. If they are okay, try your 9.3 grain loads.

Only rarely will loading close to max charge cause problems. You're still under max and don't even know if there is a problem yet. There might not be. Pulling bullets could be a waste of time if the loads are safe in your gun, and you haven't tested it yet.

Consider this, even a max load is far under the PROOF loads that a gun has to handle to be safe. Standard max pressure limit for the 357 magnum is 35,000 psi. Proof pressure loads are between 47,000 and 50,500 psi.

Also, my Speer manual #14 in the 357 magnum shows a max charge with their 110 grain bullets as 9.7 grains.
 
I will have to dig my books out, check that load, if its all below, I would try one round of the 9.3

Extract the case, if it comes out easy and there are no primer issues, shoot another one. If ok try a couple more.

While I don't anymore I ran mine hot and heavy as they were my bear loads back in my woods cruising days.

At worst it might be a tad sticky. Very likely fine.
 
I'm wondering if I should shoot them.
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If it were me, it would depend on the gun. If it's a S&W K frame (e.g. M19) 357 magnum, no, I wouldn't shoot them. If it's a Ruger 357 magnum Redhawk, yeah, I'd shoot them.
 
If it were me, it would depend on the gun. If it's a S&W K frame (e.g. M19) 357 magnum, no, I wouldn't shoot them. If it's a Ruger 357 magnum Redhawk, yeah, I'd shoot them.
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I agree that the firearm I'm using would have some bearing in this. It's likely that k frame will still handle these just fine...

Consider this, even a max load is far under the PROOF loads that a gun has to handle to be safe. Standard max pressure limit for the 357 magnum is 35,000 psi. Proof pressure loads are between 47,000 and 50,500 psi.
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While I'm not a proponent of playing with overpressure loads, what the man says is true. A few hundred rounds at max pressure shouldn't be the death of a firearm or any danger to you.

How many rounds did you load? Are you sure 9.3 the was the heaviest chqrge? What firearm are you shooting them in? All relevant questions, but I wouldn't run toward pulling bullets unless you had a situation where you want to run 1000 rounds of max charges out of an airweight S&W, and you're not absolutely certain that some over max didn't slip by. Outside of that extreme example, you're probably good but I would do RC20's test.
 
I think you should pull them.

And get an up to date Speer manual.

Also, when you throw Unique though a Uniflow (something I have done as recently as last Thursday), you need to "double-tap" the lever, so the Unique packs down more consistently in the chamber. This technique was brought to my attention by a fellow TFL poster. I don't remember who suggested it though. This technique slightly increases the charge weight per throw, but it does so with a lot more consistency. I will continue using this technique until my supply of Unique (just over a # right now) is exhausted - which won't come too soon.
 
What was your target charge? 9.5? 9.3 is less than 9.5....the scale alone varies +/-0.1.....the thrower varies about +/-0.1 with non-stick powder.

So, I don't find this variation a lot.....do you take regular data? When loading, I check each one for 2, then every other twice, the every twice, then 10 twice, then every 25-50 for the rest of the run. This is to ensure I get started at the right setting, then the every 25-50 ensures nothing changed. I shoot for overall measured variation of +/-0.1 in pistol, +/-0.2 in rifle. I have good results and the data to back them on a load I shoot.

Yes, I load max loads. I am ok that variation takes some percentage outside of max. The gun can handle proof loads once. It can handle a properly developed load being 1% over charge, in my uneducated opinion.
 
I just looked at my Speer and Lyman 50th manuals and they both show 10.0g of Unique powder with the 110g JHP bullet. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any loaded rounds 10.0g or under. Just shoot them unless you've got a very old suspect gun....and in that case get rid of the gun. It's good to ask if you don't know, but just check the manuals if you aren't sure. Load data is available on line form all manufacturers. Also, everyone should keep at least two manuals on hand to cross check. If you don't have the Lyman manual, get one. It's probably the "Bible" of reloading manuals if you only want to have one.
 
Me, I use digital electronic scales and now the auto dispensers.

A small mistake on a rifle unless really pushing the limits is percentage wise not an issue.

Pistol? It certain can be though those loads sound just fine to me.

I would hope any 357 made can handle those loads. If not as noted, dump the gun.
 
If you were shooting for 8.5 and found a 9.3, what weight and how many are in between? If 9.3 gr is the highest charge, they would prolly be safe, but there's no downside to a "do-over". Pulling bullets is easy and you get to reload the cases again! I like consistency, so I'd pull them...
 
It's likely that k frame will still handle these just fine...
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It was hypothetical. But since you raise the point, Bill Jordan designed the K frame concept, and worked in conjunction with the manufacturer, to market a handgun easier for law enforcement to carry than the ubiquitous N frame S&W 357 magnum. Jordan's gun was designed to be fired with 38 special velocity loads but carried with magnums.

Can the gun handle full bore magnums? Sure. Is it good for the K frame? No. That's why S&W made the L frame.
 
My $.02. If you intend to work up then simply mark these, set them aside and if you work up to that 9.3 or close, well, you already have that many loaded.
Honestly, like has been said so many times, todays manuals are fairly conservative, so even max loads are pretty safe. My experience has proven this time and again as I carefully work up to and past max book loads. Im not telling you to load past the book max. Others Im sure will chime in claiming Im foolish, but then so were all of the explorers of the past. :D
 
Powder Throwing consistency

My Lyman #55 has a small pendulum attached. It is a "knocker" to help settle the powder. You establish a consistent routine that includes lifting the knocker as high as it will go and releasing it. Immediately drop the charge (cycle the handle). With a flake powder like Unique or Blue Dot, I might do it twice for each charge. The advantage of this inert part is that it is the exact same weight and drops the exact same distance every time. This introduces a consistent method to settle the powder charge in your volumetric powder measure. I have used this measure to throw fairly uniform charges of Unique for 38 Special years ago. If you switch to Power Pistol, Bullseye or BE-86, I believe you see better charge weight consistency even without the knocker.
The RCBS Uniflow does not have a knocker. You could devise one with a few inches of string and a steel nut.
This Amazon page has pictures of both and you can click on them to see what I am talking about.
https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...vtargid=kwd-3252494061&ref=pd_sl_9hgujvckqa_e

Shoot the loads. Maximum loads are safe (that is why they are published), but you work up charges gradually to prevent surprises. If you shoot them in order with the same "adjacent" cartridges, I think the round to round variance in pressure, fps will be unnoticable.
 
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Maximum would be no danger, just like minimum. Only problem is they are moving targets, not often do two books have the same data.

There are some cases where you would be safe loading over maximum loads and some cases where you would be in trouble before getting there.

The former being much more common these days with a much more litigious society.
 
Bucksnort1 asked:
I'm wondering. How dangerous is it to load the maximum charge?
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If you're starting out at the maximum charge then there is enough danger that you would be a fool to proceed.

If you have worked your way up from the Starting Load and are near the Maximum Load and your powder measure pushes you right up onto Maximum Load, you should still be okay. As with any new load (and until I have not loaded 1,000 rounds of with zero errors or inconsistencies, I consider a load to be "new") I would suggest you inspect fired cases regularly for pressure signs and pay attention to warning signs when you are shooting.
 
The minimum charge for this bullet for Unique is 8.5 grains and the maximum is 9.5, per Speer #11. The quality check measured 9.3. This is the first time I've seen this much of a variance with the Uniflow.
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The same 110 grain JHP bullet (Speer 4007) in the Number 12 load manual reflects your same 8.5 grains of Unique for a low end but the maximum is 9.7 grains of Unique yielding 1447 FPS in their test gun a S&W Model 19 6" barrel. The load manual data is a compilation of what those load testing got on a given day under their given conditions with what they used for testing. So between Speer #11 and Speer #12 the maximum load apparently increased.

Wait a moment, my Speer #11 on page 406 357 Magnum 110 grain JHP reflects minimum of 8.5 grains of Unique and a Maximum of 9.5 grains yielding 1455 FPS using a Ruger Security 6 with a 6" barrel. So the #12 bumped the maximum load up about 0.2 grains using a different test gun. Your 9.3 is below the published maximum load for either manual and based on that, using a gun known to be in good condition I would have no reservation with shooting them.

Ron
 
Yep, and get a digital scale, its saves a lot of annoyance.

Better yet, the Lyman digital with the dispense built on, deliberate undercharge, trickle up to your desired change and off you go.

Its almost as fast as an auto dispenser. The auto dispense work great for rifle, have not tried on pistol. 9 mm and lower probably not worth it.
 
It really does matter what revolver the rounds will be fired in. I don't use Unique in magnum cases and use it very little at all. I still like 2400 in the magnums and use it in the .357. I have two different; one for K frames and another for N frames. While I don't fire that many mag handloads, I load to around 1150 fps for the K frames and up to 1450 fps for the N frames; the heavy load also doesn't get fired that much.
 
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