Max load question
- Thread starter Cola308
- Start date
If never loaded anything before . Meaning this is your very first time ever loading anything . I'd recommend staying about 2 or 3 % from max and stick to the manuals specific recommendations. Don't start playing with seating depth or anything like that . Your first loads should be about the fundamentals and staying safe . Others millage may very .
Last edited:
SauerGrapes
New member
Ditto, Metal God.
Follow the manual {s}. Lots of info out there. Manuals will also differ. You start getting towards max loads, watch your OAL. You can also buy small booklets for specific calibers. They can give you another reference to check data.
Follow the manual {s}. Lots of info out there. Manuals will also differ. You start getting towards max loads, watch your OAL. You can also buy small booklets for specific calibers. They can give you another reference to check data.
Far away.
The beginning loads listed are called "starting loads" for a REASON!!!
Reloading data is a guideline, most guns and ammo combinations are similar, but there is a bell curve, and your gun could be in the middle, or on either end (high or low) and no one knows until you start shooting it.
If the stars line up just the right way your gun could be one of those that shows high pressure with a starting load. Most, do not. BUT, if yours is, you won't know that until you shoot it, and finding our that the data's max load is way above what your gun will handle isn't something you want to do.
After starting loads prove safe, THEN you can carefully work up. DO NOT START AT OR NEAR MAX!!
If you do, you might wind up paying to get your gun fixed, and maybe paying medical bills as well.
It's your gun, and your eyes and fingers. Best to be prudent.
I just want to add my voice to what 44 AMP and reddog81 said.
Begin with the Starting Load and then depending on the difference between the Starting load and the Maximum Load, go up 0.1 grain, 0.2 grain or (if there's a huge difference) 0.3 grains at a time. Think of each increment as the rungs on a ladder taking you from Starting to Maximum load.
If you consult several reloading manuals it is possible you will get more than one Starting Load. They should all be pretty close together and if they are it is okay to chose a consensus of the various sources Starting Loads.
I have to travel some distance to get to my range so on a new load, I will load 10 rounds at the Starting Load. Then I will load another 10 rounds increasing the charge by 0.1 grains and another 10 increasing the charge by 0.1 grain, and so on until I reach maximum. I fill a row in a plastic cartridge box with each 10 round batch with the lightest loads at the front and the heaviest loads at the back. Again, if there's a big difference between Starting and Maximum loads, I may step up in increments of 0.2 or 0.3 grains, but use your judgement and err on the side of caution.
At the range, I set up my chronograph and fire five rounds from the lightest batch through it. On these I am looking for a consistent velocity, not accuracy. The next five are fired without regard to the chronograph for accuracy. I repeat this for each progressively "hotter" batch until 1) I start to see pressure signs in the fired cases, or 2) I shoot the last of the Maximum Load group and they shoot fine. At that point, I review the targets to see which one delivered the best accuracy. The load that delivered the best accuracy without showing pressure signs is the load I will concentrate on refining.
If I get, say, halfway through my cartridges and I start to see pressure signs, I stop. The cartridges loaded "hotter" will be taken back home and disassembled and the bullets, powder and primed cases salvaged.
Begin with the Starting Load and then depending on the difference between the Starting load and the Maximum Load, go up 0.1 grain, 0.2 grain or (if there's a huge difference) 0.3 grains at a time. Think of each increment as the rungs on a ladder taking you from Starting to Maximum load.
If you consult several reloading manuals it is possible you will get more than one Starting Load. They should all be pretty close together and if they are it is okay to chose a consensus of the various sources Starting Loads.
I have to travel some distance to get to my range so on a new load, I will load 10 rounds at the Starting Load. Then I will load another 10 rounds increasing the charge by 0.1 grains and another 10 increasing the charge by 0.1 grain, and so on until I reach maximum. I fill a row in a plastic cartridge box with each 10 round batch with the lightest loads at the front and the heaviest loads at the back. Again, if there's a big difference between Starting and Maximum loads, I may step up in increments of 0.2 or 0.3 grains, but use your judgement and err on the side of caution.
At the range, I set up my chronograph and fire five rounds from the lightest batch through it. On these I am looking for a consistent velocity, not accuracy. The next five are fired without regard to the chronograph for accuracy. I repeat this for each progressively "hotter" batch until 1) I start to see pressure signs in the fired cases, or 2) I shoot the last of the Maximum Load group and they shoot fine. At that point, I review the targets to see which one delivered the best accuracy. The load that delivered the best accuracy without showing pressure signs is the load I will concentrate on refining.
If I get, say, halfway through my cartridges and I start to see pressure signs, I stop. The cartridges loaded "hotter" will be taken back home and disassembled and the bullets, powder and primed cases salvaged.
These days I start low and work up.
In the past I would start belobw mid load but not at minium.
I think that is fine, but not as careful or conservative as starting at the bottom.
I have found loads that were accurate way down and am good with that so that's where I start.
I never started above under mid a bit for anything. I wanted to creep up on the max and the book was only an guide or idea, not the definitive. The case tells you what you need to know.
In the past I would start belobw mid load but not at minium.
I think that is fine, but not as careful or conservative as starting at the bottom.
I have found loads that were accurate way down and am good with that so that's where I start.
I never started above under mid a bit for anything. I wanted to creep up on the max and the book was only an guide or idea, not the definitive. The case tells you what you need to know.
Cola 308,
The general rule of thumb for rifle cartridges is to multiply the maximum load by 0.9 (aka, a 10% reduction) to get the starting load. There are some exceptions for technical reasons: some powders have different burn progressivity curves than others and don't need to be reduced as much; some powders don't behave well if you let them fill the case too little. But you'll find those in the data.
There are two general rules of thumb for handgun cartridges. The original one was the same as for rifle cartridges: multiply by 0.9. But Western Powders suggests that because the case volumes are small compared to rifle cartridges and because many powder dispensers tend to err by fixed amounts that are a bigger percentage of a small case volume than of a large one, that you multiply the maximum load by 0.85 (aka 15% reduction) for handgun cartridges. Again, there are exceptions among very slow powders. H110 and 296 (actually the same powder with different brand labels) is a magnum handgun powder that should not be loaded down too far because of the danger of it squibbing out and leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel that can cause a catastrophic failure when the next round is fired into it. But again, the load data for those powders shows their more limited adjustment range.
Every once in awhile you run across data for a cartridge with a particular bullet weight by one source that is completely outside the data from another source (no overlap). This is most often due to differences in the type of bullet construction involved. Here you want either to find data for your particular bullet (call the maker) or find the lowest starting load among the different data sources and start with the lowest once you can find. That is good advice in general/ I always check about three different data sources.
The general rule of thumb for rifle cartridges is to multiply the maximum load by 0.9 (aka, a 10% reduction) to get the starting load. There are some exceptions for technical reasons: some powders have different burn progressivity curves than others and don't need to be reduced as much; some powders don't behave well if you let them fill the case too little. But you'll find those in the data.
There are two general rules of thumb for handgun cartridges. The original one was the same as for rifle cartridges: multiply by 0.9. But Western Powders suggests that because the case volumes are small compared to rifle cartridges and because many powder dispensers tend to err by fixed amounts that are a bigger percentage of a small case volume than of a large one, that you multiply the maximum load by 0.85 (aka 15% reduction) for handgun cartridges. Again, there are exceptions among very slow powders. H110 and 296 (actually the same powder with different brand labels) is a magnum handgun powder that should not be loaded down too far because of the danger of it squibbing out and leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel that can cause a catastrophic failure when the next round is fired into it. But again, the load data for those powders shows their more limited adjustment range.
Every once in awhile you run across data for a cartridge with a particular bullet weight by one source that is completely outside the data from another source (no overlap). This is most often due to differences in the type of bullet construction involved. Here you want either to find data for your particular bullet (call the maker) or find the lowest starting load among the different data sources and start with the lowest once you can find. That is good advice in general/ I always check about three different data sources.
I have never found a max load to be the most accurate in any of my pistols or rifles, so I never bother to tempt fate that way.
I do not want to load max I am trying to find out where is the best place to stop prior to getting to max load, only looking for hunting loads that give good groups at 100 yards. I have loaded 308 cartridges but not to max. I am trying to load for 7MM08 Remington model 7 this time around I will be using either IMR 4064 or IMR 4350 preferably IMR 4064. All prepping has been done on the cases IE uniformed primer pocket, uniformed flash hole, full length sized, trimmed to minimum and cleaned by 0000 steel wool and tumbled. Case looks brand new. Just needs primer, powder and bullet I have both CCI and Winchester Large rifle primers both 4350 and 4064 powders and 139 gr. hornady BTSP bullets. I have Hornadys manual and on line Hodgdon data. Hornady Manual says 41.1 as max and Hodgdon says 42.5 as max.
I do not want to load max I am trying to find out where is the best place to stop prior to getting to max load, only looking for hunting loads that give good groups at 100 yards. I have loaded 308 cartridges but not to max. I am trying to load for 7MM08 Remington model 7 this time around I will be using either IMR 4064 or IMR 4350 preferably IMR 4064. All prepping has been done on the cases IE uniformed primer pocket, uniformed flash hole, full length sized, trimmed to minimum and cleaned by 0000 steel wool and tumbled. Case looks brand new. Just needs primer, powder and bullet I have both CCI and Winchester Large rifle primers both 4350 and 4064 powders and 139 gr. hornady BTSP bullets. I have Hornadys manual and on line Hodgdon data. Hornady Manual says 41.1 as max and Hodgdon says 42.5 as max.
What is the cartridge you are asking these questions for and what cartridge/calibers have you loaded and tested so far
If 41.1gr is max charge then a 10% reduction would be 37gr-ish . If you have either the bullet manufacturer's manual or the powders manual . Start there if you have both start with the one that has the lowest start charge and start there . I move up in increments of 1% of max charge so a cartridge that has a max charge in the low 40grs area . I move up in .4gr increments Example 223 Rem in .3gr , 308 Win .4gr , 30-06 .5gr increments . That's only because IMHO you are not going to miss an accuracy node if moving up in 1% of max increments .
Some guys like to fine tune there loads later by moving the charge weights around by .2gr or even .1gr . If that's effecting your accuracy . Then your load is not all that stable IMHO .
EDIT : Thanks for the info you posted as I was writing .
My Lyman #50 has the 7mm-08 using that same bullet and IMR-4064 maxing out at over 43gr . So based on all those numbers I'd say working up from minimum to 41.5 would be fine . Keeping in mind you are still looking for pressure signs at every charge increment .
If 41.1gr is max charge then a 10% reduction would be 37gr-ish . If you have either the bullet manufacturer's manual or the powders manual . Start there if you have both start with the one that has the lowest start charge and start there . I move up in increments of 1% of max charge so a cartridge that has a max charge in the low 40grs area . I move up in .4gr increments Example 223 Rem in .3gr , 308 Win .4gr , 30-06 .5gr increments . That's only because IMHO you are not going to miss an accuracy node if moving up in 1% of max increments .
Some guys like to fine tune there loads later by moving the charge weights around by .2gr or even .1gr . If that's effecting your accuracy . Then your load is not all that stable IMHO .
EDIT : Thanks for the info you posted as I was writing .
My Lyman #50 has the 7mm-08 using that same bullet and IMR-4064 maxing out at over 43gr . So based on all those numbers I'd say working up from minimum to 41.5 would be fine . Keeping in mind you are still looking for pressure signs at every charge increment .
Last edited:
Lots of interesting info here. I guess I will offer the dissenting opinion here.
What are you going to mess up as a beginner that mild loads will help?
I can only name one thing, but am interested in other opinions....
My point is you really need to error proof your process from picking a load through testing through production loading of what you settle on.
It is the little things like comparing sources. It is possible to look up the wrong load once, but in 2-3 separate sources, probably not.
It is possible to put the wrong powder in the hopper, but is it, if the hopper is labeled and there is only one powder and primer out at the station.
It is possible to over seat a bullet, but is it possible to miss it if your die is labeled and you are checking every group or every 50 in production?
Setup procedures so you are measuring twice before loading once. Then measure one for all your variables every 5-100 rounds. After I load 1000, I have statistically relevant data on the load. I have ~25 data points on case length with primer seated, charge weight, oal, fit to gage or runout on rifle rounds.
What are you going to mess up as a beginner that mild loads will help?
I can only name one thing, but am interested in other opinions....
My point is you really need to error proof your process from picking a load through testing through production loading of what you settle on.
It is the little things like comparing sources. It is possible to look up the wrong load once, but in 2-3 separate sources, probably not.
It is possible to put the wrong powder in the hopper, but is it, if the hopper is labeled and there is only one powder and primer out at the station.
It is possible to over seat a bullet, but is it possible to miss it if your die is labeled and you are checking every group or every 50 in production?
Setup procedures so you are measuring twice before loading once. Then measure one for all your variables every 5-100 rounds. After I load 1000, I have statistically relevant data on the load. I have ~25 data points on case length with primer seated, charge weight, oal, fit to gage or runout on rifle rounds.
My simple view.
If load data lists 4.0gr of whatever as the start and 5.0gr as the Max then all should be safe to load no matter if you've loaded 10 rounds in your life or 10 million. There are still rules and procedures to follow. If they are not followed then bad things can happen to anyone, newbie or old timer.
Personally if I load max loads then I hand weigh every charge and measure every finished round.
If load data lists 4.0gr of whatever as the start and 5.0gr as the Max then all should be safe to load no matter if you've loaded 10 rounds in your life or 10 million. There are still rules and procedures to follow. If they are not followed then bad things can happen to anyone, newbie or old timer.
Personally if I load max loads then I hand weigh every charge and measure every finished round.
KMW , while I don't disagree with you . When I was first starting out I did not really know what to look for as pressure signs . Sure I was told all the things you hear about . Flatten primers , cratered primers , extractor marks etc . So even though I knew what I was looking for I did not know what those things really looked like . That's why I'm saying don't go looking for your max pressure when you are new at this . It wont take long for him/her to learn all the signs and what they actually look like and then can push his loads a little harder .
FWIW I edited my post above OP you may want to go back and take a look .
FWIW I edited my post above OP you may want to go back and take a look .
I have Hornady Manual 9th addition, Hodgdon on line data and Lyman 48th edition they all three differ. I have other manuals but they do not have the 139 gr bullet in them. Was just looking for a little bit more info pertaining to how close to max to get before stopping. I am going to set up a load test for this round with out reaching maximum load using .3 increments.
Metal god I find nothing you've stated as misleading and agree.
To me the OP asked an open ended question which many interpreted in all kinds of ways when the question really was pretty simple.. A beginner handloader could safely load any cartridge to max as long as they followed the normal safe practices and worked their loads up. The max published load should be a safe load for anyone and not just the experienced. If it wasn't safe then it shouldn't be published.
Now as a beginner would I load to max? I can say I've been loading off and on since 1979and I still don't load to max. I started with a Bonanza "68" press, 505 scale, Lee dippers and a Speer #10 manual which I still have. There were no internet forums to visit back then either.
To me the OP asked an open ended question which many interpreted in all kinds of ways when the question really was pretty simple.. A beginner handloader could safely load any cartridge to max as long as they followed the normal safe practices and worked their loads up. The max published load should be a safe load for anyone and not just the experienced. If it wasn't safe then it shouldn't be published.
Now as a beginner would I load to max? I can say I've been loading off and on since 1979and I still don't load to max. I started with a Bonanza "68" press, 505 scale, Lee dippers and a Speer #10 manual which I still have. There were no internet forums to visit back then either.