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MAUSER PO8 prints high
- Thread starter Varel
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
Two inches high is a six o'clock hold on a four inch Bullseye.
Walt Sherrill
New member
Fishbed77 said:Honestly, I find it somewhat humorous that we're even discussing a 2 inch POI difference for a military combat pistol.
Just because it's military surplus doesn't mean it's inaccurate. I've had a couple of surplus Lugers and one collectible. Never shot the collectible model, but the two Soviet-captured Lugers were accurate, and one of them -- with a badly corroded (inside) barrel (near the chamber) was an absolute tack-driver and one of the most accurate 9mms I've owned. I traded it for a ANIB CZ-75 (not a B) some years ago when I was first interested in CZs, and it's one of a few guns I've traded or sold that I'd like to have back.
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It is ridiculesly complicated and was never that good in it's role as service pistol: to fragile, to expensive, sensitive to fouling. It was a status symbol for the officers.
I take some issue with this, maybe just semantics, but the P08 wasn't as bad at its job as folks today tend to believe. If it really was as bad as most people think, there's simply no way it would have stayed in service for the duration of the muddiest war in modern history, much less continued in service into the next war. A .45 caliber Luger was testing along the 1911 and actually fared reasonably well in the test if I'm not mistaken.
It certainly is more fragile, complicated, and finicky than modern designs, but really not the delicate piece of china they're often taken for. And they certainly do shoot absurdly well despite the triggers, which I feel could use some improvement.
Walt Sherrill
New member
When they were first introduced, the Lugers were well regarded, and it took quite a while before any other semi-auto could compete in terms of price or performance.
As the gun industry learned how to build semi-autos, designs were changed so that hand-fitting (which is why most key Luger parts were serialized -- so that the critically fit parts could be kept together) -- wasn't required. JMB had already figured that part out with the 1911. With the 1911, parts were more interchangeable, keeping the 1911 running wasn't as time-consuming for armorers.
The P-08 was apparently more susceptible to dirty conditions than some designs, but they were still being used in WWII by the AXIS, and Soviet-captured P-08s were used by East German police until the fall of the Soviet Union and Warsaw pact.
The only problems I ever had with mine was due to wear -- not fragility.
As the gun industry learned how to build semi-autos, designs were changed so that hand-fitting (which is why most key Luger parts were serialized -- so that the critically fit parts could be kept together) -- wasn't required. JMB had already figured that part out with the 1911. With the 1911, parts were more interchangeable, keeping the 1911 running wasn't as time-consuming for armorers.
The P-08 was apparently more susceptible to dirty conditions than some designs, but they were still being used in WWII by the AXIS, and Soviet-captured P-08s were used by East German police until the fall of the Soviet Union and Warsaw pact.
The only problems I ever had with mine was due to wear -- not fragility.
OF my 2 P08's I have only had one part break. I broke an ejector on my "shooter" P08. It was easy to find a replacement part, although a little pricey. The one my dad brought back from WWII reportedly was fired many times by my dad, uncles, cousins, and friends as I was told at his funeral. Everyone asked "What happened to the Luger?" I just old them it had been in my possession for the last 10 years.
I am not sure that is true. As a gunsmith, I have worked on many Lugers, military and civilian, and I have owned probably a couple of dozen at one time or another, ranging from first year of production to the end of WWII. Maybe some guns were hand fitted, but I never saw any that appeared to be. With only a few exceptions, parts appeared to fit and interchanged, whether taken from guns or spare parts. (Not all ammo functioned the guns, but that is not the same as saying parts did not fit.
That does not mean that there might not be problems, but I can only say that, for the most part, the Lugers I worked on were properly fitted and that seemed ti be the result of careful parts manufacture, not of any extensive hand filing or fitting during assembly.
Apparently, Luger (and P.38) parts were numbered for one simple reason that probably made more sense to the Germans than to us - they had always done it that way. And no one ever questioned it, even though the practice slowed production even in the most critical times.
Jim
That does not mean that there might not be problems, but I can only say that, for the most part, the Lugers I worked on were properly fitted and that seemed ti be the result of careful parts manufacture, not of any extensive hand filing or fitting during assembly.
Apparently, Luger (and P.38) parts were numbered for one simple reason that probably made more sense to the Germans than to us - they had always done it that way. And no one ever questioned it, even though the practice slowed production even in the most critical times.
Jim
Jim Watson
New member
I have READ (and not just on the Internet) that Lugers were "soft fit" and then "hard fit " after heat treatment.
P38 cut the man and machine time by half or more.
But Ol' Hermann wanted Krieghoff Lugers for the Luftwaffe. After the Walther 9mm Ultra project flopped.
P38 cut the man and machine time by half or more.
But Ol' Hermann wanted Krieghoff Lugers for the Luftwaffe. After the Walther 9mm Ultra project flopped.
Varel is going into combat? Geez, I'd choose something other than a Luger.
I'm pretty sure Georg wasn't concerned with the musings and opinions of collectors 100+ years in the future when he designed his pistol.
Just because it's military surplus doesn't mean it's inaccurate.
I agree 100%.
Walt Sherrill
New member
James K said:I have worked on many Lugers, military and civilian, and I have owned probably a couple of dozen at one time or another, ranging from first year of production to the end of WWII. Maybe some guns were hand fitted, but I never saw any that appeared to be. With only a few exceptions, parts appeared to fit and interchanged, whether taken from guns or spare parts. (Not all ammo functioned the guns, but that is not the same as saying parts did not fit.
That does not mean that there might not be problems, but I can only say that, for the most part, the Lugers I worked on were properly fitted and that seemed ti be the result of careful parts manufacture, not of any extensive hand filing or fitting during assembly.
Apparently, Luger (and P.38) parts were numbered for one simple reason that probably made more sense to the Germans than to us - they had always done it that way. And no one ever questioned it, even though the practice slowed production even in the most critical times.
Jim Watson said:I have READ (and not just on the Internet) that Lugers were "soft fit" and then "hard fit " after heat treatment.
This series of comments make sense, and it's the first time I've heard these points really addressed. I've never had occasion to compare parts from different Lugers (to test whether they were interchangeable), but serializing parts BECAUSE it was the long-standing practice seems strangely consistent with other things the German military did.
The Germans of that era were remarkably brilliant in many administrative and technical practices, but remarkably (obsessively?) bureaucratic (in the negative sense of the term) in other ways.
Record-keeping with regard to their concentration and death camps was another side of their bureaucratic mindset. Eugen Kogon's "The Theory and Practice of Hell," a very thorough examination of the NAZI camp system, drew heavily from those well-kept records. Kogon was a prisoner who survived his stay at Buchenwald.