mwells72774
New member
Its a 1912-61 7.62x51 chilean. Tried soaking in penetrating oil, PB blaster; tried a cheater bar; even tried heat (377deg according to uncle who was in charge of the heat, colored the action and didnt budge). Any ideas?
Mauser barrel is STUCK!!
- Thread starter mwells72774
- Start date
I do not have trouble with removing barrels, when stuck I use a press, no wood blocks, no rosin, I have had barrels 'so stuck' I could set the wood blocks on fire, and still, no barrel hold. Action wrench? I also have a 4 foot cheater for the action wrench. Then there are hammers and sudden shock, the ears on the old action wrench are pounded round.
I understand not everyone has access to that much equipment, still I wonder, how does a barrel that is stuck get removed with less.
F. Guffey
I understand not everyone has access to that much equipment, still I wonder, how does a barrel that is stuck get removed with less.
F. Guffey
mwells72774
New member
i've got some aluminum barrel blocks from a good friend of mine. even put some rubber in there for more traction. Nada. action wrench isn't doing crap. thinking I might be better off with a crescent wrench.
mwells72774
New member
it was originally a 7x57, but in the 60's ('63 on mine) they were rebarreled with surplus M1903 Springfield barrels cut down to mauser profile and rechambered in 7.62x51 NATO
I removed the barrel from my Turkish Mauser: Used quality penetrating oil,( P.E.N.) and fill the ring where barrel meets reciever. Then I take a 3 lb hammer and smack the muzzle straight on 5 or 6 times, refill ring with penetrant. Let set overnight check and see if penetrant has dissappeared, if so we're in business if not repeat earlier mentioned steps. Pipe wrench on fattest part of barrel and action wrench engaged with action resting on floor, I place my right foot on pipe wrench (18 inch Rigid) and the action wrench backed on floor, I used a propane torch and evenly heated the thread area of action while increasing pressure with my foot and bam, it worked so fast the reciever could be handeled with bare hands.
On original military Mauser bbls,there is no shoulder contacting the forward face of the receiver ring.
As this is a retro barreled rifle,you likely have a shoulder bearing on the front face of the receiver ring.
You can run a lathe parting tool about .020 ahead of the receiver ring into barrel,approx down to the minor dia of the thread.This will relieve any preload on the forward receiver ring.
One way to warm it up is dunk the receiver in a Presto Hot pot of peanut oil.
Then you can get everything over 300 deg with out hot spotting anything.A heat gun is another option.
If you get yourself a can of freeze spray,when you have everything hot,wrenches on,torque applied,no luck...try shooting freeze spray through the bore while you have full torque on the bbl.
As this is a retro barreled rifle,you likely have a shoulder bearing on the front face of the receiver ring.
You can run a lathe parting tool about .020 ahead of the receiver ring into barrel,approx down to the minor dia of the thread.This will relieve any preload on the forward receiver ring.
One way to warm it up is dunk the receiver in a Presto Hot pot of peanut oil.
Then you can get everything over 300 deg with out hot spotting anything.A heat gun is another option.
If you get yourself a can of freeze spray,when you have everything hot,wrenches on,torque applied,no luck...try shooting freeze spray through the bore while you have full torque on the bbl.
Dixie Gunsmithing
Moderator Emeritus
There is one other trick to try before getting drastic. Mount it in a vise, with a wrench on it. Then, you need to heat the frame, while cooling the barrel. To cool it, you need a small bottle of CO2, and a hose with something to direct it into the chamber of the barrel, like a small piece of aluminum or copper tubing, bent and inserted into the hose end. After the frame is heated, crack open the valve on the CO2, and let a small stream flow through the barrel, from the chamber, which will chill it and shrink it. Next, try to torque the barrel off.
Gunplummer
New member
First Mistake: Don't use a vise and aluminum jaws. You are not working on an M-16. Use a solid split block with split brass bushings bolted to a bench. Second mistake: Using a receiver wrench without shock treatment (A very large hammer). Don't bother with internal receiver wrenches. The poster with the shoulder relief info was right too. If you have a lathe (Or mill), you can cut off the barrel and CAREFULLY work the chamber area out. The worst rifle I ever had to disassemble was a Russian bolt action. I eventually milled flats on the chamber area of the barrel for the bench block to get a grip. It sounds as if you are not equipped to deal with this situation. That is O.K., it is a good learning experience. Now you are getting an idea why gun work costs so much.
mwells72774
New member
well, got home today and out to the shop with me.
put the barrel in a light vice in the alum. blocks I had with some powdered chalk. grabbed a pipe wrench and 2 small rectangles of brass. it took next to no pressure and pop, off the barrel comes.
now, the issue is getting the green mountain barrel on. it gets 2 threads in hand tight and from there, its tough. haven't tried to torque down on it.
has anyone else installed a green mountain F54 contour barrel before?
this is my first rebarrel project, so I'm asking a of questions.
put the barrel in a light vice in the alum. blocks I had with some powdered chalk. grabbed a pipe wrench and 2 small rectangles of brass. it took next to no pressure and pop, off the barrel comes.
now, the issue is getting the green mountain barrel on. it gets 2 threads in hand tight and from there, its tough. haven't tried to torque down on it.
has anyone else installed a green mountain F54 contour barrel before?
this is my first rebarrel project, so I'm asking a of questions.
Here is a 2 minute video of me getting an old rusty barrel off with 540 foot pounds of torque.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOjYro4w0Bc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOjYro4w0Bc
Gunplummer
New member
I can believe that!
Congrats. Now that you've got the old barrel out.....a word about installing the new barrel. First, check the threads on both the new barrel and the receiver. Especially the receiver. Unfortunately, the old technique of fitting Mauser barrels with a "crush fit" tends to damage the receiver threads (compresses or "crushes" them). "Crush fit" is a bloody STUPID technique - period. Ignorance, plain and simple.
The reason you are having trouble in screwing the new barrel into the receiver is probably that the threads are damaged. You MAY need to obtain a suitably sized thread chaser and work over the receiver threads. After checking everything carefully, try this first: heavily lube the barrel threads (even a thin grease for this purpose will work)....then slowly screw it into the receiver, a bit at a time, under more than hand pressure. Stop often, when it hangs up and back it out. Check for any debris or bits of shaved metal, etc....clean, re-lube, then try it again. Working this way, you MAY be able to chase the receiver threads, by using the BARREL threads. Understand, this is to chase the receiver threads....and get the barrel TEST fitted. It is NOT final fitting of the barrel - so, if you get it all the way in this way, DON'T just torque it down and decide that you are finished. This technique MAY not work - if the threads are too buggered. If they are, then a thread chaser or actual re-threading may be needed. BE CAREFUL - if your receiver threads are too damaged, you could damage your barrel threads to match - not a good thing.
Once the issue with the threads is solved.....let me say this about the final install of the new barrel. PLEASE DO NOT do the stupid "crush fit" technique ! It is both unnecessary and will simply cause the same problem all over again. The new barrel only needs around 75 lb/ft. or so, of torque. (The barrel will not "shoot loose" with this much torque.) What you want, for good tight headspace, is to ensure that the barrel face bottoms on the inner torque ring. There is NO need for the outer barrel torque shoulder to contact the receiver face, before that is achieved. That is what produces the "crush fit". So, for god's sake, cut the outer barrel torque shoulder back enough (or the face of the receiver) so that they only barely touch, when the barrel is torqued in place. Then, damage to the threads will be avoided - and future re-barreling will be easy, as it should be.
The reason you are having trouble in screwing the new barrel into the receiver is probably that the threads are damaged. You MAY need to obtain a suitably sized thread chaser and work over the receiver threads. After checking everything carefully, try this first: heavily lube the barrel threads (even a thin grease for this purpose will work)....then slowly screw it into the receiver, a bit at a time, under more than hand pressure. Stop often, when it hangs up and back it out. Check for any debris or bits of shaved metal, etc....clean, re-lube, then try it again. Working this way, you MAY be able to chase the receiver threads, by using the BARREL threads. Understand, this is to chase the receiver threads....and get the barrel TEST fitted. It is NOT final fitting of the barrel - so, if you get it all the way in this way, DON'T just torque it down and decide that you are finished. This technique MAY not work - if the threads are too buggered. If they are, then a thread chaser or actual re-threading may be needed. BE CAREFUL - if your receiver threads are too damaged, you could damage your barrel threads to match - not a good thing.
Once the issue with the threads is solved.....let me say this about the final install of the new barrel. PLEASE DO NOT do the stupid "crush fit" technique ! It is both unnecessary and will simply cause the same problem all over again. The new barrel only needs around 75 lb/ft. or so, of torque. (The barrel will not "shoot loose" with this much torque.) What you want, for good tight headspace, is to ensure that the barrel face bottoms on the inner torque ring. There is NO need for the outer barrel torque shoulder to contact the receiver face, before that is achieved. That is what produces the "crush fit". So, for god's sake, cut the outer barrel torque shoulder back enough (or the face of the receiver) so that they only barely touch, when the barrel is torqued in place. Then, damage to the threads will be avoided - and future re-barreling will be easy, as it should be.
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If I plug in the Mauser info
http://www.futek.com/boltcalc.aspx
I get 500 + foot pounds recommended, 750+ foot pounds max
Barrel threads are very different. We get all the clamping force we need for accuracy with a few foot pounds. I have shot good groups with the Mauser barrel on finger tight.
The reason we put 75 foot pounds of torque on a barrel is so that it will not come loose.
There is some controversy on the internet as to why Remington is putting glue like goop on the Rem700 threads.
http://www.futek.com/boltcalc.aspx
I get 500 + foot pounds recommended, 750+ foot pounds max
Barrel threads are very different. We get all the clamping force we need for accuracy with a few foot pounds. I have shot good groups with the Mauser barrel on finger tight.
The reason we put 75 foot pounds of torque on a barrel is so that it will not come loose.
There is some controversy on the internet as to why Remington is putting glue like goop on the Rem700 threads.
Clark,
The bolt calculator linked above assumes a solid bolt - NOT a hollow barrel (tube) and hollow receiver - which are considerably weaker than a solid bolt and suitable nut of the same diameter. So, in this circumstance, the bolt calculator application linked is not applicable (N/A).
(I'm sure that you already know that - and just used it as an extreme example.)
Just stating the facts - in case anyone ELSE is confused about that.
Obviously, I completely agree with your second and third points. Well said.
Finally, I assume that Remington applies thread dope to it's barrel threads simply as a failsafe - that is, to try to ensure that their barrels won't come loose after many years of use and abuse (and possibly subject them to dubious complaints about "quality" or lawsuits from ignorant or opportunistic people). In other words, probably just as an extra margin for "CYA" purposes. Thread dope is useful for one purpose, anti-corrosion. Perhaps they assume that, for a firearm that may be used in the field under all sorts of weather conditions (and for many years), it is a good idea.
In truth, I have always done the same thing. After seeing the rust that can develop and is very often present on old Mauser barrel threads....I've applied thread dope on every one of the 14 or so Mausers that I have rebarreled, over the years.
The bolt calculator linked above assumes a solid bolt - NOT a hollow barrel (tube) and hollow receiver - which are considerably weaker than a solid bolt and suitable nut of the same diameter. So, in this circumstance, the bolt calculator application linked is not applicable (N/A).
(I'm sure that you already know that - and just used it as an extreme example.)
Just stating the facts - in case anyone ELSE is confused about that.
Obviously, I completely agree with your second and third points. Well said.
Finally, I assume that Remington applies thread dope to it's barrel threads simply as a failsafe - that is, to try to ensure that their barrels won't come loose after many years of use and abuse (and possibly subject them to dubious complaints about "quality" or lawsuits from ignorant or opportunistic people). In other words, probably just as an extra margin for "CYA" purposes. Thread dope is useful for one purpose, anti-corrosion. Perhaps they assume that, for a firearm that may be used in the field under all sorts of weather conditions (and for many years), it is a good idea.
In truth, I have always done the same thing. After seeing the rust that can develop and is very often present on old Mauser barrel threads....I've applied thread dope on every one of the 14 or so Mausers that I have rebarreled, over the years.
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“now, the issue is getting the green mountain barrel on. it gets 2 threads in hand tight and from there, its tough. haven't tried to torque down on it.
has anyone else installed a green mountain F54 contour barrel before?”
Again, I have 4 Chilean Mauser receivers, I have no less than 30 Mauser barrels, I do not have a Mauser barrel that will thread into the one of the of the Chilean receivers. The Chilean receivers barrels were replace in 1934 to 30 cal. Again, the receivers are not from contract rifles. There is an interference between the threads in the receiver and barrel, the barrels that were removed were shot-out and a few had case head separation with the case body still in the chamber. Once the barrels broke loose nothing got easier, meaning nothing got easier until the barrel was almost ready to fall out. I cut chambers off of the barrel and then used them as chamber gages.
Mauser from 8mm57 to 30/06: My Chilean Mauser receivers were modified, the box was longer with a longer floor plate. The modification caused concern, metal was removed from the receiver, it was believed the metal removed weakened the receiver behind the bottom bolt lug. I used one barrel to test fire all 4 receivers, nothing suspect. I paid $25.00 each for the (almost) complete rifle, it took me 2 + years for Hoosier Gun Parts to find 2 long floor plates.
F. Guffey
has anyone else installed a green mountain F54 contour barrel before?”
Again, I have 4 Chilean Mauser receivers, I have no less than 30 Mauser barrels, I do not have a Mauser barrel that will thread into the one of the of the Chilean receivers. The Chilean receivers barrels were replace in 1934 to 30 cal. Again, the receivers are not from contract rifles. There is an interference between the threads in the receiver and barrel, the barrels that were removed were shot-out and a few had case head separation with the case body still in the chamber. Once the barrels broke loose nothing got easier, meaning nothing got easier until the barrel was almost ready to fall out. I cut chambers off of the barrel and then used them as chamber gages.
Mauser from 8mm57 to 30/06: My Chilean Mauser receivers were modified, the box was longer with a longer floor plate. The modification caused concern, metal was removed from the receiver, it was believed the metal removed weakened the receiver behind the bottom bolt lug. I used one barrel to test fire all 4 receivers, nothing suspect. I paid $25.00 each for the (almost) complete rifle, it took me 2 + years for Hoosier Gun Parts to find 2 long floor plates.
F. Guffey
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OK. I can say that I think that I've never re-barreled a Chilean Mauser.
So, what is your point ? I mean, as regards assisting the OP in his re-barrel project ? So stipulated - Chilean (non contract) receivers are different than other Mauser receivers. Then, how is he to proceed ?
I assume that you are asserting that the threads in the receiver vs. the barrel threads, are substantially different. Yes ? If so, then re-threading the receiver may well be mandatory (or the barrel). If not practical, due to a large difference in the thread patterns, then he might have to start with a barrel blank...and have it custom threaded to fit. Why not just SAY that - if that is what you intend ?
So, what is your point ? I mean, as regards assisting the OP in his re-barrel project ? So stipulated - Chilean (non contract) receivers are different than other Mauser receivers. Then, how is he to proceed ?
I assume that you are asserting that the threads in the receiver vs. the barrel threads, are substantially different. Yes ? If so, then re-threading the receiver may well be mandatory (or the barrel). If not practical, due to a large difference in the thread patterns, then he might have to start with a barrel blank...and have it custom threaded to fit. Why not just SAY that - if that is what you intend ?