Assuming we're talking about a Kar98k pattern rifle (I would include the Czech VZ-24 and Yugo M48 in this category), I'd say it's six in one hand and half a dozen in the other. Both rifles have proven themselves to be boringly reliable, both are more accurate than most shooters are capable of appreciating, and the difference in terminal performance between 7.62x54R and 7.92x57 is negligable. I find the Mauser to have a more easily manipulated safety and it is smoother to load with stripper clips. The Mosin-Nagant, on the other hand, seems to me to have a smoother bolt throw and iron sights which I can see better. While the Mosin is much longer, it doesn't seem to be as muzzle-heavy as I would expect and thus both rifles balance about equally well in the hand.
Mauser 98K vs Mosin Nagant 91/30
- Thread starter Big Tom
- Start date
The Tkiv 85 was a sniper rifle only used by Finland. The vast majority of Mosin sniper rifles were on the PU pattern.
However, the Mauser is not without it's sniper brethren. The C3, Parker Hale M85, and Israeli Mauser are also still in use as sniper rifles. The Norse still use a Mauser based (Santa Barbara action if I remember correctly) sniper rifle.
And heavy barreled M98 "sniper" rifles are still being manufactured for public consumption by Zastava. I don't know of any current manufacture of Mosin pattern rifles.
That being said, the Canadians have been retiring the C3, the Brits moved on to the Accuracy Internation platform, the Finns moved on to the Sako TRG, and the Israelis relegated the Mauser to a reserve Police unit.
So when it comes to which is better, the Mauser is still being manufactured, and the Mosin is not. The market has spoken.
Jimro
However, the Mauser is not without it's sniper brethren. The C3, Parker Hale M85, and Israeli Mauser are also still in use as sniper rifles. The Norse still use a Mauser based (Santa Barbara action if I remember correctly) sniper rifle.
And heavy barreled M98 "sniper" rifles are still being manufactured for public consumption by Zastava. I don't know of any current manufacture of Mosin pattern rifles.
That being said, the Canadians have been retiring the C3, the Brits moved on to the Accuracy Internation platform, the Finns moved on to the Sako TRG, and the Israelis relegated the Mauser to a reserve Police unit.
So when it comes to which is better, the Mauser is still being manufactured, and the Mosin is not. The market has spoken.
Jimro
Gunplummer
New member
The Germans "tossed their Mausers in favor of Russian rifles". Where do people come up with this nonsense? Running out of 8mm ammo might be the cause of that rumor. Way too many people watching movies and "Myth Busters". The truth is the Russians wanted to dump that rifle not long after it was put into service. With internal problems, being broke and getting into wars they just could not manage it. Look at the junk they came up with when they tried to make a semi-auto. The Russians had such a stock pile of rimmed ammo they tried to design the rifle around the cartridge. Their bolt actions are the same way, designed around the cartridge. There is nothing special about Russian rifles, they are around so long because it was not practical to get rid of them. Most other countries got rid of the rimmed cartridge as fast as they could.
Bamashooter
New member
I have a 1929 Izhevsk Hex reciever, 1953 Hungarian, A 91/59 made from a 1942 Izhevsk rifle. The '29 and Hungarian are very well built rifles. Fit and finish is good, not like wartime made rifles. The 91/59 is very light and accurate. Good carbine. The Hungarian is a little more accurate but alot heavier. I always have fun shooting them. So does alot of other folks. Fun factor is high.
I like Fabrique Nationale mausers and this one in 7.62 Nato would be a good one to have in the collection.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=247090530
I like Fabrique Nationale mausers and this one in 7.62 Nato would be a good one to have in the collection.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=247090530
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Josh Smith
Moderator
Hello,
The Mosin-Nagant is still being manufactured. Give me time and I'll find the link between building sights and messing with this Gewehr 88.
Josh
The Mosin-Nagant is still being manufactured. Give me time and I'll find the link between building sights and messing with this Gewehr 88.
Josh
Gunplummer
New member
Anybody know for sure if the Finns manufactured Russian receivers? I believe they " inherited" so much Russian equipment that they just adopted it for economic reasons.
Mauser for me
The Mauser action had been made in dozens of cartridges, millions of sporter rifles are patterened on, if not made directly from the Mauser action. I have had Mauser sporters in calibers ranging from .22-250 to .458 Win Mag.
The Moisin Nagant action has been made in only one caliber, and the only sporters made on it are the ones done my individuals.
I find the russian action to be clunky and awkward.
Both rifles in military trim served well, and both are capable of adequate accuracy. Comparisons between individual rifles only tell you about the individual rifles. One cannot truthfully say one is more accurate than the other, just because the one you have shoots better than the other.
The Mauser is more refined, and vastly more versatile when you go beyond straight military issue.
One reason there is a myth about the Mauser not being good in the extreme cold of the Eastern Front is because of the oil the Germans used. Not the rifle itself. What still works ok around freezing can turn to glue at 20+ below zero. The Soviets had extensive experience in this area that the Germans did not. The Germans learned, and compensated, but it took some time, so the legend got traction.
Personally, and speaking only of rifles in issue condition, I find the Mauser to be easier to use, especially those models with a bent bolt handle.
The Mauser action had been made in dozens of cartridges, millions of sporter rifles are patterened on, if not made directly from the Mauser action. I have had Mauser sporters in calibers ranging from .22-250 to .458 Win Mag.
The Moisin Nagant action has been made in only one caliber, and the only sporters made on it are the ones done my individuals.
I find the russian action to be clunky and awkward.
Both rifles in military trim served well, and both are capable of adequate accuracy. Comparisons between individual rifles only tell you about the individual rifles. One cannot truthfully say one is more accurate than the other, just because the one you have shoots better than the other.
The Mauser is more refined, and vastly more versatile when you go beyond straight military issue.
One reason there is a myth about the Mauser not being good in the extreme cold of the Eastern Front is because of the oil the Germans used. Not the rifle itself. What still works ok around freezing can turn to glue at 20+ below zero. The Soviets had extensive experience in this area that the Germans did not. The Germans learned, and compensated, but it took some time, so the legend got traction.
Personally, and speaking only of rifles in issue condition, I find the Mauser to be easier to use, especially those models with a bent bolt handle.
Josh - that's the first I've ever heard of the Mosin still being in production. Where are they still being made?
Gunplummer - Finland did not manufacture receivers. All of their Mosins were built on Russian/Soviet receivers. They inherited a large quantity of Mosins from Russia; they also inherited many Mausers and even some former Austro-Hungarian Mannlichers at the end of WWI, and did a lot of horse-trading with other newly-independent European countries during the 1920s and 30s. Most of these new countries had a mix of these weapons; some standardized on Mausers, some standardized on Mannlichers, and some had a little of everything, but only Finland standardized on the Mosin.
An example of some of the travels these Mosins saw, from my collection: I have a Finnish 91/30 with a 1944 Tikkakoski barrel and a 1914 Izhevsk receiver marked AZF, which is an Austrian arsenal mark. The original rifle, either an M91 infantry rifle or an M91 Dragoon, was captured by the Austrians and overhauled during the war. There's no telling where it was when the Hapsburg Empire collapsed, but somehow the rifle - or maybe just the receiver - ended up in Finland, where eventually the receiver was used to build my shiny like-new 91/30.
Gunplummer - Finland did not manufacture receivers. All of their Mosins were built on Russian/Soviet receivers. They inherited a large quantity of Mosins from Russia; they also inherited many Mausers and even some former Austro-Hungarian Mannlichers at the end of WWI, and did a lot of horse-trading with other newly-independent European countries during the 1920s and 30s. Most of these new countries had a mix of these weapons; some standardized on Mausers, some standardized on Mannlichers, and some had a little of everything, but only Finland standardized on the Mosin.
An example of some of the travels these Mosins saw, from my collection: I have a Finnish 91/30 with a 1944 Tikkakoski barrel and a 1914 Izhevsk receiver marked AZF, which is an Austrian arsenal mark. The original rifle, either an M91 infantry rifle or an M91 Dragoon, was captured by the Austrians and overhauled during the war. There's no telling where it was when the Hapsburg Empire collapsed, but somehow the rifle - or maybe just the receiver - ended up in Finland, where eventually the receiver was used to build my shiny like-new 91/30.
Josh, you posted this over at "gun and game" http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mosin-nagant/120640-new-2011-production-mosin-nagants-sks.html and even there you can't do anything but point to a company selling "sporterized" mosins.
Seriously, no one is making new Mosin Nagant receivers, it isn't economically rewarding when you can buy the whole dang rifle for less cost. Russians may be new at capitalism, but they aren't stupid.
Jimro
Seriously, no one is making new Mosin Nagant receivers, it isn't economically rewarding when you can buy the whole dang rifle for less cost. Russians may be new at capitalism, but they aren't stupid.
Jimro
I recently wrote my undergrad dissertation on the Lee Enfield in the First World War, so a similar sort of thing really. Sounds like an awesome project!
For my money, the Mauser gets it, I can't really think of an area in which the Mosin is substantially better. Both are generally accurate, reliable and tough. The Mauser is generally more accurate, no less reliable and equally tough. The Mauser has a better, smoother bolt with a nice controlled extraction . . . there is a reason its action and variations thereof have dominated the sporting rifle world.
The Mosin was good when it was designed, for what it was designed for, arming Russian conscript armies round the turn of the 19th Century. It performed sterling service in two world wars, as did the Mauser. The Mosin is a very simple piece of technology, ideally suited to mass production and citizen armies . . . but its not like the Mauser is difficult!
All round, the Mauser is a better rifle and is surely one of the all time classics of firearms history. Well, thats what I reckon anyway . . . and I have only shot these rifles a couple of times, would love to own them both one day.
Good luck with your project!
For my money, the Mauser gets it, I can't really think of an area in which the Mosin is substantially better. Both are generally accurate, reliable and tough. The Mauser is generally more accurate, no less reliable and equally tough. The Mauser has a better, smoother bolt with a nice controlled extraction . . . there is a reason its action and variations thereof have dominated the sporting rifle world.
The Mosin was good when it was designed, for what it was designed for, arming Russian conscript armies round the turn of the 19th Century. It performed sterling service in two world wars, as did the Mauser. The Mosin is a very simple piece of technology, ideally suited to mass production and citizen armies . . . but its not like the Mauser is difficult!
All round, the Mauser is a better rifle and is surely one of the all time classics of firearms history. Well, thats what I reckon anyway . . . and I have only shot these rifles a couple of times, would love to own them both one day.
Good luck with your project!
Glockgrabber
New member
Mauser, one can cycle it faster, and it has a safety.
Josh Smith
Moderator
I cycle the Mosin-Nagant and m88/05 Commission Rifle the same speed -- quickly.
The Mosin has a safety, and it's not as loud to use!
Josh
The Mosin has a safety, and it's not as loud to use!
Josh
fatwhiteboy
New member
I pick the Mosin. You can use the barrel for a jack handle to change a tire, the bayonet for a tire iron and not lose any accuracy...