Mauser 98

H

HM3

New member
Just bought my first bolt action rifle, the venerable 8mm Mauser 98. It's the "short" version and has a laminated stock that someone cleaned up real nice. The rifle (receiver)was made in '44, also has "bnz" stamped on the receiver, and its serial number is 4476. It bears no importer markings whatsoever. The barrel is slighlty dark, and the rifling is very sharp. Paid $89 for it. Haven't put any rounds through it yet.

Can anyone give me some info on the newest addition to the family? Also, where is a good place to get ammo, either corrosive or non-corrosive? What kind of performance should I expect out of my old war horse?
 
HM3:
You have just purchased a fine rifle. The Mauser action is one of the best and the most copied. The United States bought patent rights, from Mauser to design the M1903 Springfield 30-06 rifle.

I don't have the ammo infor you requested, however, I have sent you some slides on your email. The rifles on my home page are 98 Mauser actions.

HJN
 
HM3: The K98k (Karabiner 98 kurz, or short Carbine model 98) was the main battle rifle of the Wehrmacht from June 1934 to the German surrender in May 1945. The 'bnz' code on your rifle means that the receiver was produced by Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG. In 1944, Steyr built around 182,513 K98k in three variants. The 1st variant rifles were stamped '44' and the other two were only stamped '4'. Does you rifle have a single letter suffix after the serial number? This would also indicate a 1st variant rifle as the others only had numeric serials. The 3rd variant is identifiable from the single rune (looks like a lightning bolt) stamped between the 'bnz' and the '4'. (The rune marked rifles were assembled outside of the steyr factory, and some believe that they may have been assembled at concentration camps.) The laminated beechwood stock was standard for the Steyr K98k. The stocks can be found unstained, stained, and some were even polished. There are also some very rough models called the 'Kriegsmodell' (War Model) which lacked the bayonet mount and the stock disc of the earlier production. If you want to read more detailed information on the K98k rifles, find a copy of Richard D. Law's Backbone of the Wehrmacht (1991). The publisher, Collector Grade Publications, has a website and you can even order on-line: www.collectorgrade.com .

P.S. to Harley: Actually, US Army Ordnance designed the M1901 and had already upgraded it into the M1903 before someone realized in _1904_ that they probably should contact Mauser about infringing on their patents for the M1893 and its stripper clips. (At least seven patents were infringed.) Mauser, Ordnance, and the US Treasury Department, after a year long series of negotiations, agreed on $0.50 per 1000 clips and $0.75 per rifle. Nine royalty payments were made to Mauser starting Nov. 6, 1905 and ending in July 1909 once a grand total of $200,000 was reached. (There was seperate royalty claim pursued by DWM over the design of the projectile used in the .30-06 service cartridge, but that's another story.)



[This message has been edited by Daniel Watters (edited June 03, 1999).]
 
In the SGN, there's quite a plethora of 8mm Mauser ammo, let's take a look:

Burns Bros (516) 234-7676 has "8mm" for $66.99/500 with larger and smaller quantities available.

J&G Sales, Ltc (520) 445-9650 has: Turkish Mauser at $109.95/700, and Yugoslavian Mauser at $78.48/450.

Gibbs Rifle Co (304) 262-1651 or www.gibbsrifle.com has 8mm Mauser for $49.95/350 and are certainly corrosive.

Tennessee Guns (423) 577-1939 has Yugoslav 8mm Mauser for $84.95/600.

That's about all I see, but my eyes are getting tired.
 
Danial Watters:
I should have been a little more explicit (sp)on the receiver and the clips.

Thanks for reminding me.

hjn

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited May 28, 1999).]
 
Daniel;

The only stampings on the receiver are the letters "bnz" and the number 44. The serial number 4476 is on the left hand side of the barrel. In addition, I just noticed a small letter n under the serial number and an eagle in front of the serial number.

According to what you told me, it appears that this rifle is a first variant. The only bummer of this rifle is that the number on the barrel does not match the number on the bolt, which does not match the number on the safety.

The blueing is mostly worn, and the bore is dark, but the rifling is sharp and the stock is in pretty good condition. The bolt itself show no exterior signs of rust, and neither does the barrel. The gun dealer disassembled the bolt, cleaned up the surface rust that was on the firing pin spring, and ensured that the firing pin was not broken and in good working condition. The trigger feels pretty good.

There are two things that considering doing to this rifle. First would be to restore it, as much as I can, to its original condition. Second would be to eventually convert the rifle to a .30-06 custom job. I'm leaning heavily to the first option, but it would depend on the availability of reloadable brass and supplies or ammunition.

Any advice or opnions?
 
HM3:
In your consideraton to restore to original would, In my opinion, not be advisable. As you already have a mixed/matched rifle, If it were me, I would convert to the -06 and put on an aftermarket stock. Monte Carlo or Classic, personally I prefer the Classic Thumb hole. See on
http://members.tripod.com/~stock4broker/Firearms.html

GUNSTOCKS
http://www.boydboys.com
http://www.gunstock.com

All rifles on this home page are mauser 98's and both are excellant. You can get semi-finished stocks from the internet, will get you the address, and make a fine rifle.

HJN


[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited May 28, 1999).]
 
Harley

How much would such a conversion cost, and what would it entail? What skill level is involved in a 8mm 98 Mauser conversion to .30-06? Is it something that a local 'smith can do? I'm on a budget, a very tight budget right now, and cannot afford more than a feww hundred dollars in work done at this time. Any advice?
 
HM3
Costwise I really don't know. Take a look at the Gun Stock pages, and this will give you an idea on the stock. To comment on a gunsmith or machinest (sp) to convert to -06 I don't have the knowledge.

If you were to purchase a "drop-in stock, finishing the wood wouldn't be that much money, doing it yourself. Cost-wise it may be cheaper to change the barrell to a civilian model, (straight tapper). Possibly one of the smithies on the forum could put some insite on this question.

HJN
 
Why convert it at all? 8mm Mauser is an outstanding round in it`s own right. Surplus practice ammo is cheap and plentiful and JSP hunting ammo is available from Sellier&Bellot and Norma. It really is a fine round,give it a chance before you throw your money away on a conversion to something very similar (30-06). Also your sights` range settings are already calibrated to 196gr. 8mm,the standard load. BTW *almost* all the surplus ammo I`ve seen in 8mm is non corrosive. Enjoy your new toy! Marcus
 
HM3: The barrel markings you mentioned are consistent with the 1st variant Steyr K98k rifles from 1944. The eagle stamping is the firing proof mark, and the 'n' is the serial suffix. Too bad about the unmatching numbers on the safety and bolt; they should match the barrel serial. The bolt sleeve and cocking piece should also be stamped with the serial number on a 1st variant.

Other factory markings on the 1st variant should include:

1) a '77' on the right side of the receiver, rear sight guide, and the front sight base;

2) a 'byf' and/or '135' on the triggerguard and floorplate (these parts were supplied by Mauser/Oberndorf); and

3) a 'WaA623' on the rear sight base.

Does your stock have a stock disk on the side just behind the sling cut? Given the serial number, your rifle was likely assembled as the 'economy' Kriegsmodell, and should _not_ have the stock disk. On the Kriegsmodell, the front stock bands are also typically retained by wood screws instead of a leaf spring.

If you intend to sporterize your rifle, Brownells ( www.brownells.com ) offers a multitude of barrels prethreaded for the Mauser 98 receiver and chambered for the cartridge of your choice. All you will need to do is find someone to turn out the old barrel, screw in the new, and finish ream the chamber (or set back the shoulder/breech). The barrel prices run from $167 to $263 retail. Installation is going to run another $65 to $120 depending on the shop. Brownells also has a wide variety of stocks available for the Mauser action, and the prices will run from the low $100s to the high $400s and beyond.
 
Daniel;

I realy would prefer to restore the rifle. I realize that it would ruin its collectability, but with no matching serial numbers, I believe this to be a moot point. Besides that, I find this Mauser 98 to be a beautiful rifle in and of itself and I am drawn to the history that it represents.

Does Brownells sell replacement 8mm barrels and parts for the 98? If so, one of the first things that I'm going to do is replace the barrel.
 
I agree with Marcus, the 8mm is a great caliber, (32 cal. at .308 velocities, suitable for anything on the North American continent and all thin skinned game in the Eastern Hemisphere.

I've got six 8mm rifles (Mauser) and they a truly a thing of beauty and genius, (as all Mausers are). I wouldn't tamper with any of them and enjoy shooting them just as they are.

For $89.00. I'd leave it just as it is. If you want a sporter rifle, just get one that was built that way. By the time you spend a lot of money on conversion, you may as well find a good used "purpose" built sporter. Then you'll have two rifles. And as we all know, you can't have too many rifles.
 
HM3: Before you start replacing anything, shoot it first. It may still be capable of putting together decent groups even with the dark bore. Realize that if you rebarrel your rifle (even with another K98k barrel), you will lose the barrel markings (including the serial number) unique to a 1st variant Steyr K98k produced in 1944.

If you haven't already done so, get Richard Law's book which I mentioned earlier. The book will be a valuable aide to finding what kind of parts would be appropriate to your specific rifle. If something needs to be replaced, then check sources for military surplus parts like Gun Parts Corporation ( www.gunpartscorp.com ).
 
HM3. Try cleaning your barrel with MP-7 bore cleaner. I had an old Winchester with a black, not dark, but black bore. I tried Hoppe's, Shooters Choice, JB bore paste, and even steel wool, trying to clear up that black bore. Bought some MP-7 at a gun show to try, as the demo was very impressive. I soaked the barrel for about 20 minutes with well saturated patches. Then I scrubbed it about 50 strokes with an oversized brush. Then I did the soaking bit again for another 20 minutes. Then dry patches until bore was totally dry. Did the barrel look like new? No, but it is a light grey color, and the rifle shoots beautifully.
You might want to try that, and there's a fair chance you will not have to change barrels. You can order it from Windfalls Distributers at 1-800-yes-4mp7.
An 8mm is about .32 cal. so you can use a .35 cal brush. That's what I used on my old (1910) 30-30, a cherished family heirloom.
One thing to remember, oil the bore when you are done. This stuff is thorough. Everything goes. Oil, rust, metal fouling, everything, yet it is non-toxic and environmentally safe. It was developed for the military to glean all those high speed mini-guns and other weapons. Great stuff.
Hope you find this of some help.
Paul B.
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
 
Harley and Daniel Watters, and folks.

An interesting point about the Mauser/Springfield business is that the designers at Springfield never saw a Model 1898 Mauser before they worked on what would become the US Model 1903. They performed a "rifle marriage" (well, I can't call it a "shotgun marriage") between the Model 1898 Krag and the Model 1893 Spanish Mauser. They didn't think they needed to worry about patents on the Model 1893 because of right of capture, but forgot that the patents weren't Spanish but German.

No feature exclusive to the Mauser Model 1898 (i.e., not in the Model 1893) is found in the US Model 1903.

A lot of confusion was generated by contemporary documents referring to the "Model 1898"; some later readers thought the reference was to the Model 1898 Mauser when in fact it was to the US Model 1898 (Krag), the then-current US service rifle.

Jim
 
Jim:
I agree with your statements, and just to add a little more, you mentioned the 1893 was a captured weapon and patent rights were, at first, not considered.

Something that might be of interest is:

Where was the 1893 Mauser Captured?
What was the U.S. Caliber of the Krag, at the time the Mauser was captured?
What was the caliber of the Mauser?
And why was this rifle design and the bullet design considered for a U.S. Rifle.

HJN

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited May 30, 1999).]
 
Paul and Dan,

Good advice there on cleaning the barrel thoroughly before replacing it. Many of these old surplus rifle barrels are in excellent condition once you get all the fouling and 60 years of cosmoline out of them.



------------------
Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Harley poses the following questions:

1) Where was the 1893 Mauser Captured?

Cuba and the Phillipines during Spanish-American War of 1898

2) What was the U.S. Caliber of the Krag, at the time the Mauser was captured?

.30-40 Krag: 220gr jacketed round-nose at ~2,000fps. However, many of the the US militia units were still armed with the .45-70 (black powder loads) 'Trapdoor' Springfield.

3) What was the caliber of the Mauser?

The Spanish Mausers were chambered in 7x57mm: 173gr jacketed round-nose at ~2,300fps. (Both the Krag and Mauser cartridges were loaded with smokeless powder.)

4) And why was this rifle design and the bullet design considered for a U.S. Rifle.

Loading from stripper clips was believed to be faster, but this was not impossible to correct in the Krag. The sticking point was that to increase the velocity of the 220gr service bullet to 2,300fps (to match/trump the trajectory of the 7x57mm) would raise chamber pressures beyond that which would be safe in the single lug Krag action.

PS to Jim: Mauser officials were of the opinion that the Krag rifles also infringed on certain Mauser patents. They decided to let the matter slide given the US Army's cooperative attitude on the issue of paying royalties for the 1903 Springfield.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top