Mastering the J-Frame
- Thread starter Sierra
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lonegunman
New member
"Staging the trigger" is fine for the range, but it doesnt translate into any usable skill in the real world.
Under stress conditions staging the trigger could become a real bad idea.
The best way to make a J frame more accurate is to stand closer to the target. This is a close quarters weapon, not a target gun.
Dont try to do something with it for which it was not designed.
Under stress conditions staging the trigger could become a real bad idea.
The best way to make a J frame more accurate is to stand closer to the target. This is a close quarters weapon, not a target gun.
Dont try to do something with it for which it was not designed.
Some ammunition experimentation might be in order. Conventional wisdom says light bullets but my 442 shoots 110's and 125's way low, and goes right to point of aim with standard velocity 158 gr JHP. Recoil is not much different; the gun seems to shift in my grip less with the heavies. YMMV but it can't hurt to try it.
db4
db4
442
I must agree with the Lonegunman . The 442 is a close quarters weapon. I practice with it at 7 yards no farther. The key is to practice alot with it. I love to carry this little gun in my front pocket. I have a cheap uncle mikes inside the pants holster for it. Who makes a decent one for the 442.
Litlman
I must agree with the Lonegunman . The 442 is a close quarters weapon. I practice with it at 7 yards no farther. The key is to practice alot with it. I love to carry this little gun in my front pocket. I have a cheap uncle mikes inside the pants holster for it. Who makes a decent one for the 442.
Litlman
I've had a 442 for a long time and really love the gun - but I know how easy it is to miss with it. For me it's 7 yards, front sight on the target, smoothly roll the trigger, and practice a lot. Right now I can put the 5 rounds on target in a 4-inch group, at 7 yards, in about 4 seconds, starting from the gun at my side. Not very fast. adk
Here's some suggestions, from years of shooting revolvers and j-frames (and eventually getting pretty good with the little guys).
1. Dry fire - it helps build your ability to get and keep a good sight picture as you let the shot break. I set my standard as hitting the steel plates (or a paper plate) regularly at 25 yards (and beyond). Sight picture and good trigger control, are really critical here. You must be much more exact with a 2" barrel than with a 4" or 6". At longer distances, I like practicing some from a firm kneeling position.
2. Have the gun tuned by a good pistol smith. Jim Clark's shop in LA (the state, not the city!) will do a DA service action job for under $70.
3. If you don't want to go that route, get a replacement, lighter-weight mainspring and trigger return spring. Buy one of the sets sold by Brownells. You can install it yourself if you are at all handy, and ahve some dissembly instructions. Install, and clean and lube wiht a good modern lube. (I like TetraGun.)
I don't recommend any other home gunsmithing! After swapping out the springs, test fire the gun for about 50 rounds with your carry ammo. I've used these replacement springs on a number of gun without a problem.
4. Brownells also sells several action lubricating compounds which can help smooth an action. Action Magic II is one.
5. Shoot a LOT with mild target loads.
6. Get some good grips, and try several. I like the Secret Service grips in rosewood, sold by Eagle grips. Or try rubber Packmayers or try Hogues. Try some out, and re-sell any you don't like. Grip size, form and material will affect your shooting a lot.
8. Put a dab of red or orange enamel paint on the front sight blade.
9. The Fed 125-grain nyclads are good, but fi yu can take the recoil use the 158-gr LSWCHP, +p.
10. Staging the trigger is risky and of doubtful utility in the stress of a life-threatening situation. Practice a smooth DA pull. Speed will come on its own with time and effort. I like to tell my CCW stdunets that they shouild press the trigger ina smooth steady way, so as to not disturb the sight alignment. Dry fire a LOT. With time you will compress the press into less time.
11. In gripping the gun, make sure you exert firm, rearward pressure with your middle and ring fingers. A grip exerciser helps. When using both hands, make sure your grip is solid.
12. In close-in shooting, practice some with one hand, and when you do, strongly pull your other arm close to your chest. Your fist should press against your breastbone. This helps get your whole body into the shooting effort. Lean a BIT forward into the recoil. Try shooting with a locked elbow, and them with a slightly bent arm - and see which you like best.
1. Dry fire - it helps build your ability to get and keep a good sight picture as you let the shot break. I set my standard as hitting the steel plates (or a paper plate) regularly at 25 yards (and beyond). Sight picture and good trigger control, are really critical here. You must be much more exact with a 2" barrel than with a 4" or 6". At longer distances, I like practicing some from a firm kneeling position.
2. Have the gun tuned by a good pistol smith. Jim Clark's shop in LA (the state, not the city!) will do a DA service action job for under $70.
3. If you don't want to go that route, get a replacement, lighter-weight mainspring and trigger return spring. Buy one of the sets sold by Brownells. You can install it yourself if you are at all handy, and ahve some dissembly instructions. Install, and clean and lube wiht a good modern lube. (I like TetraGun.)
I don't recommend any other home gunsmithing! After swapping out the springs, test fire the gun for about 50 rounds with your carry ammo. I've used these replacement springs on a number of gun without a problem.
4. Brownells also sells several action lubricating compounds which can help smooth an action. Action Magic II is one.
5. Shoot a LOT with mild target loads.
6. Get some good grips, and try several. I like the Secret Service grips in rosewood, sold by Eagle grips. Or try rubber Packmayers or try Hogues. Try some out, and re-sell any you don't like. Grip size, form and material will affect your shooting a lot.
8. Put a dab of red or orange enamel paint on the front sight blade.
9. The Fed 125-grain nyclads are good, but fi yu can take the recoil use the 158-gr LSWCHP, +p.
10. Staging the trigger is risky and of doubtful utility in the stress of a life-threatening situation. Practice a smooth DA pull. Speed will come on its own with time and effort. I like to tell my CCW stdunets that they shouild press the trigger ina smooth steady way, so as to not disturb the sight alignment. Dry fire a LOT. With time you will compress the press into less time.
11. In gripping the gun, make sure you exert firm, rearward pressure with your middle and ring fingers. A grip exerciser helps. When using both hands, make sure your grip is solid.
12. In close-in shooting, practice some with one hand, and when you do, strongly pull your other arm close to your chest. Your fist should press against your breastbone. This helps get your whole body into the shooting effort. Lean a BIT forward into the recoil. Try shooting with a locked elbow, and them with a slightly bent arm - and see which you like best.
I picked up a Taurus 605 about a month ago and I was amazed at how poor I shoot with it (not that I'm very good with anything else yet, just I was horrible with the 605). However, for its intended use I wouldn't worry too much.
As others have said a snub is as accurate as anything else, it just makes it harder for us to be accurate with it. With practice we can get good with it and the process can be fun. I do practice with mine a lot and hope to be as good with it as with my K-frame and my autos in a few years. However, I am not overly concerned, that is just for fun.
These guns are for short distances and are not meant as general purpose guns. At typical self defense ranges (7-20 feet) I can hit a man sized target and usually I am COM on the silhouette. At shorter SD ranges (7-12 feet) I can USUALLY hit very close to where I am aiming and sometimes right on (i.e. if I want to hit the head I WILL hit the head at this range). This is all the accuracy we really need out of this kind of gun, the rest is for our egos.
As others have said a snub is as accurate as anything else, it just makes it harder for us to be accurate with it. With practice we can get good with it and the process can be fun. I do practice with mine a lot and hope to be as good with it as with my K-frame and my autos in a few years. However, I am not overly concerned, that is just for fun.
These guns are for short distances and are not meant as general purpose guns. At typical self defense ranges (7-20 feet) I can hit a man sized target and usually I am COM on the silhouette. At shorter SD ranges (7-12 feet) I can USUALLY hit very close to where I am aiming and sometimes right on (i.e. if I want to hit the head I WILL hit the head at this range). This is all the accuracy we really need out of this kind of gun, the rest is for our egos.
About the liability of tuning a revolver - that's the "why" for using an established place like Jim Clark's shop - they offer service action jobs, and do them for cops. I have had two action jobs done there since the mid-80's. The S&W factory can do a pretty good job, too.
I have been certified to teach people to shoot for protection and CCW since about 1982. I am also a trained, certified pistol coach. And I'm firmly convinced that shooting at longer distances is a very good idea.
1. You learn a lot from shooting out to 25 yards, or 50. It will force you to work hard on sight picture and trigger control.
2. It will make you a more accurate shot. Speed and precision are goals you need to work toward.
3. You might need to take a longer shot - unlikely or inadvisable for several reasons for a civilian, but possibly necessary in some instances.
The small-frame revolver can be very accurate - I've taken squirrels with one, taking only head shots (from a solid kneeling or sittng position) and using a load which printed perfectly on at about 20 yards. Once you've done that a few times - and I feel most can with prsctice, lots of practice - you'll have confidence in your ability to shoot accurately.
I have been certified to teach people to shoot for protection and CCW since about 1982. I am also a trained, certified pistol coach. And I'm firmly convinced that shooting at longer distances is a very good idea.
1. You learn a lot from shooting out to 25 yards, or 50. It will force you to work hard on sight picture and trigger control.
2. It will make you a more accurate shot. Speed and precision are goals you need to work toward.
3. You might need to take a longer shot - unlikely or inadvisable for several reasons for a civilian, but possibly necessary in some instances.
The small-frame revolver can be very accurate - I've taken squirrels with one, taking only head shots (from a solid kneeling or sittng position) and using a load which printed perfectly on at about 20 yards. Once you've done that a few times - and I feel most can with prsctice, lots of practice - you'll have confidence in your ability to shoot accurately.
hankrearden2000
New member
J-frame actions are excellent out of the box. Concentrate on mastering that trigger pull. Balance a Quarter on that topstrap and dryfire keeping sight (the part of the front sight that is elevated above the Quarter of course) on target until you can do it 100% without the Quarter falling off. Then you will be a J-frame shooter, which is the same as saying that you have mastered the most difficult to shoot handgun in the world.
Of course, it will help if you have proper grips. The best I have found at reasonable cost are Taurus Model 85 rubber boot grips. These are the same grips that Taurus is now putting on all of their new 5-shot revolvers. Remove that J-frame stockpin and the Taurus grips will fit as well as well as those designed for a J-frame.
These grips with their covered backstrap design, provide those of us with man-sized hands the necessary distance from the trigger for good trigger control and natural pointing and alignment. The grip does not extend below the bottom of the gripframe so that it is not longer than it needs to be to conceal well.
Taurus boot grips can be ordered from the Taurus web site. Cost is about $15 + shipping.
Of course, it will help if you have proper grips. The best I have found at reasonable cost are Taurus Model 85 rubber boot grips. These are the same grips that Taurus is now putting on all of their new 5-shot revolvers. Remove that J-frame stockpin and the Taurus grips will fit as well as well as those designed for a J-frame.
These grips with their covered backstrap design, provide those of us with man-sized hands the necessary distance from the trigger for good trigger control and natural pointing and alignment. The grip does not extend below the bottom of the gripframe so that it is not longer than it needs to be to conceal well.
Taurus boot grips can be ordered from the Taurus web site. Cost is about $15 + shipping.
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Currently have 4 J-frames (Model 36 since '76) and learned long ago they can be quite accurate, but like other posters have said, not necessarily what they are designed for.
Have purchased Models 317 (8-shot .22) and Model 638 (.38 "Bodyguard") within past 4 months. Not certain in which one, but at least one of the S&W Owner Manuals (written by same lawyers who designed chitty new triggers?) specifically instructs not to "stage" the trigger ...
Have had (smaller of the two) Crimson Trace laser grips on both aluminum frame models mentioned above and found it to be a great tool for letting shooter see their "arc of movement", not to mention flinching errors and impact of recoil. Larger "overmolded" CT grip on Model 340 feels much better in my hand than factory or CT grip - and helps take much of the "sting" out.
adk - Don't be so tough on youself. Most j-frame shooters could not come close to that.
Have purchased Models 317 (8-shot .22) and Model 638 (.38 "Bodyguard") within past 4 months. Not certain in which one, but at least one of the S&W Owner Manuals (written by same lawyers who designed chitty new triggers?) specifically instructs not to "stage" the trigger ...
Have had (smaller of the two) Crimson Trace laser grips on both aluminum frame models mentioned above and found it to be a great tool for letting shooter see their "arc of movement", not to mention flinching errors and impact of recoil. Larger "overmolded" CT grip on Model 340 feels much better in my hand than factory or CT grip - and helps take much of the "sting" out.
adk - Don't be so tough on youself. Most j-frame shooters could not come close to that.
One of the problems with snubs: Poor sights!
I've owned and shot lots of snubbies and most of them have lousy sights, unlike the fine 3-dot variety found on most semi-autos. Sure would be nice to have a set of big dot night sights custom-fitted to my snubs. Anyone out there do that without it costing a fortune?
I've owned and shot lots of snubbies and most of them have lousy sights, unlike the fine 3-dot variety found on most semi-autos. Sure would be nice to have a set of big dot night sights custom-fitted to my snubs. Anyone out there do that without it costing a fortune?
YosemiteSam357
New member
Yes, but was he a lawyer?
(<- Note: That indicates a joke.)Hey, I know! How about a Red Dot scope for a snubby?
(So was that.)I just fired off another 50 rounds through mine yesterday, and I can say I'm getting better with it. Even at 25 yards, in slow SA fire, I was able to keep them all in the black (a 5" circle, in this case). DA at about 15 yards I was able to get acceptable results.
I'm happy to say I had much better results with a 6" .38 special...
-- Sam
I'd agree that j-frame actions are pretty good out of the box, often better than what is found on larger hadnguns; but a very good pistolsmith (and I emphasize the qualifier!) can smooth it safely to true excellence. After years of bullseye and practical competition, I can shoot most revolvers fairly well out of the box, but a tuning makes it a lot easier.
That fact that these ARE the hardest handguns to shoot well means it is worthwhile to take all the advantages.
That fact that these ARE the hardest handguns to shoot well means it is worthwhile to take all the advantages.
hankrearden2000
New member
No Tom, none at all. The reason is that the grip fully encloses the grip frame with the exception of the butt. With wrap around grips you don't need a stock pin.