Mass Shooting in the UK

The Lone Ranger

New member
Another triumph for gun control - automatic weapons have been illegal in the UK since 1936. Strangely enough this hasn't received anywhere near the amount of publicity in the UK or I guess the States. Funny that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_859000/859574.stm

Nine people have been hurt after a gunman opened fire outside a nightclub in hat detectives believe may have been a Yardie incident involving Caribbean gangsters.

A 16-year-old girl was amongst those injured when the man fired shots from an automatic weapon outside the Chicago's nightclub in Peckham High Street, south east London.

The most seriously hurt was a man who suffered two chest wounds.

Four women were also caught in the attack and all received hospital treatment.

The incident took place at 0250BST as people queued outside the nightclub for a Jamaican sound system night.

An eyewitness queuing outside the club said:
"I heard the gunshot and ran away to hide and when I came out there were two women on the floor screaming.

"One woman had been shot through the arm and it looked like it had gone straight through and hit her side. The other woman had been shot in the leg."

'Innocent people'

Metropolitan police from Operation Trident, which tackles Yardie crimes, are investigating the attack.

Detective Superintendent Peter Camilletti is appealing for witnesses.

He said: "There are some innocent people caught up in the shooting.

"We do not yet know what the motive was for it. We have very few witnesses to this at the moment so we are appealing to witnesses and anyone who can tell us what happened."

He said the weapon appeared to have been an automatic gun, based on cartridges, found on the street.

A Peckham resident, who did not want to be named, said: "This area of High Street, where the club is, is known locally as the front line because this is the point people come to if they want to meet drug dealers who deal in crack and heroin."

He added: "Softer drugs are available elsewhere but this is where you get hard drugs."

Footage from CCTV cameras positioned outside the club will be examined by police and an incident room has been set up in Peckham.

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"Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.") -
Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD).


[This message has been edited by The Lone Ranger (edited July 31, 2000).]
 
Notice that it mentioned a motorist was treated for shock JUST BECAUSE HE SAW THE SHOOTING? Is parlaiment now going to make violent displays illegal because it could make some ultra-sensitive people go apoplectic?
 
That this was an auto or semi-auto, I would not put much credence in this story.

Just a few days ago, when that fellow commandeered a jet at JFK, Dr. Bob Arnett on CBS (or NBC or ABC....what difference it makes is beyond me), in less than one minute used the phrase "automatic weapon" four times. His attempting to "load" his report with anti-firearm rhetoric was both laughable and sad.

What Heston said is true: They wouldn't know a semi-auto from a sharp stick.

Regards
 
It's quite clear from the incident posted above that those people are in dire need of more gun control laws and gun bans. Eventually, if there are enough laws and bans, those Yardies will get the message and turn in their guns.

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- Ron V.
 
However, the "yoots" in Merry Olde England have been arming themselves with various machine pistols (in the British term) smuggled in from the rest of Europe. It also does not matter if the arms used were semi auto anyway, since those are also outlawed.

The next time Germany is standing on the Channel with lust for England in its eyes, don't stop them, please.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He said the weapon appeared to have been an automatic gun, based on cartridges, found on the street.[/quote]

Bunkster, I agree. I suppose those of us on TFL just aren't smart enough to recognize an 'automatic' just from the 'cartridges' found on the street.

So, do 9mm rounds in a select fire Uzi look different from those in a Sig 228? Or, .45 ACP in a Thompson look different than those in a 1911? And, this is probably why M-16's are so expensive, right? .... they take different .223 rounds? ;)

TFL has corrupted me ... I no longer swallow this foolishness. It has forever ruined me for CNN and the AP. ;)

Regards from AZ
 
There must be some mistake because those guns are illegal there. :confused:

Bottom Gun

PS: FYI, Jeff Thomas, IMHO, since a Thompson fires from open bolt and has a very distinctive firing pin, they do appear quite different from brass out of a 1911.
 
Well, if cases were found on the street, that would indicate that revolvers were not used therefore, automatics.

Cases fired in MP-5's look a lot different than those fired in a BHP.

It matters not one whit if the article was refering to semi or full automatics being used. Both are illegal to own in England.

The main point of the story is that all the anti-firearms laws in England have done nothing in preventing crimes.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Thomas:
Bunkster, I agree. I suppose those of us on TFL just aren't smart enough to recognize an 'automatic' just from the 'cartridges' found on the street.

So, do 9mm rounds in a select fire Uzi look different from those in a Sig 228? Or, .45 ACP in a Thompson look different than those in a 1911? And, this is probably why M-16's are so expensive, right? .... they take different .223 rounds? ;)

TFL has corrupted me ... I no longer swallow this foolishness. It has forever ruined me for CNN and the AP. ;)

Regards from AZ
[/quote]


Well, it could be 9mm versus .38 special, etc. where some rounds are shot in pistols vs. revolvers.
 
The "idiot" factor has become larger then this world can bear, we're in for one hell of a violent short ride.
 
<He said the weapon appeared to have been an automatic gun, based on cartridges, found on the street.>
=================================
Originally posted by Grin&Barrett:
<Makes you wonder how their military trains, or what is left of it.>
=========================================
A few months ago wires reported that due to lack of funds, British military units trying to save on ammo, when training, now holler "bang" instead of shooting. The report said
that this new training practice was very
effective.



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LowClassCat
Always willing to calculate my chances
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Thomas:
So, do 9mm rounds in a select fire Uzi look different from those in a Sig 228? Or, .45 ACP in a Thompson look different than those in a 1911? And, this is probably why M-16's are so expensive, right? .... they take different .223 rounds? ;)
[/quote]

Actually, forensic science has gotten good enough that they can usually identify what model weapon fired a case, based on "signature" marks left by the ejector, extractor, firing pin and such. You need a microscopic comparator and a library of sample fired cases to do this. I'm not sure how good their hit rate is but I have read that it's helped in a number of investigations.

If forensics can establish where the shot was fired, the angle and distance to the fallen casings can also help. Some pistols are remakably consistent about where they drop the cases.
 
I think the gist was that how could the Superintendent determine that the rounds were fired by an "automatic" gun.

IMHO, that appears from the way it was written. He probably meant that these weapons automatically ejected the casings, whereas a bolt-action wouldn't.

The usual semantic fuzziness when a professional is interpreted by a layman.

I wish the Supt. luck, "we are appealing to witnesses and anyone who can tell us what happened." A while back they investigated a club shooting where they found pools of blood and 54 empty cases. Like Sgt. Shultz of "Hogan's Heroes", they "saw nothing".
 
Lets say that the weapon used was INDEED a full-auto, but that can NOT be seeing how gun-ownership is "totally" illegal in the UK. There are ALOT of shootings in the UK, surprisingly enough. There have been school shootings in the UK as well.... Funny how we dont hear about those, yet if there is even a gun found in a school, in the US, that is all we hear about for a WEEK. What on earth could the press be trying to Hide here? Hmmmm, that is a tough one.....

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-AoW[t]-Dead [Black Ops]
 
Some weapons have a VERY distinctive fingerprint on things.

E.g. the Glock's square firing pin dent, or the MP5's decimation of the case.


Battler.
 
LawCat reported

...that due to lack of funds, British military units trying to save on ammo, when training, now holler "bang" instead of shooting...

I'm sorry to report that it's not just the Brits who practice with "M-69 voicebox" ammo. This was quite often my experience in the US Marines. The DoD will spend a bazillion dollars on the latest wonder-rifle for the Army but there's really limited or no emphasis on or allocations for shooting basics.
 
The story finally hit the papers today, Page 21 in The Sun. Most papers had it well hidden.

On past experience the weapon is likely to be either an Uzi or an Ingrams Mach 10, these appear to be de rigeur accessories for your fashion conscious Yardie gangster.

For the legal eagles, automatic weapons were withdrawn from certificate in 1936, becoming illegal under the 1937 firearms act. Semi-auto rifles became illegal in 1988 - this would include semi-auto versions of the Uzi etc.

Another triumph for gun control fully reported by the press, all pigs are fed and ready to fly.

------------------
"Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.") -
Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD).
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LawCat:
A few months ago wires reported that due to lack of funds, British military units trying to save on ammo, when training, now holler "bang" instead of shooting. The report said that this new training practice was very effective.[/quote]

BANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANG :cool:

Skyhawk

[This message has been edited by Skyhawk (edited August 01, 2000).]
 
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