Martial arts?
- Thread starter Wayfaring_Stranger
- Start date
I'm iffy on martial arts for their technique. I've trained primarily in Judo and Jujitsu, which teach grappling, which I have mixed feelings about. If I'm in a streetfight with an armed bad guy, or I'm facing multiple attackers, I don't want to be rolling around on the ground with somebody. However, I once worked a security job, where I could basically use an armlock, wristlock, comealong, etc., with no probablem, but if I punched somebody I'd be in trouble.
I also have heard the criticism that most martial arts training systems focus on defending against particular attacks, and until you get into the higher levels, you're not getting experience defending against unexpected types of attacks. Therefore, you might be good defending against a throw, but if somebody tries something out of the box, you're not trained to defend. People don't have six years to get good at self defense, before they can use it on the street. However, if you can find a place that trains you to fight (like the armed forces or law enforcement or even some security companies do) you will have a big leg up.
All that said, all the martial arts classes I've taken have been great physical conditioning, and break up their routine better than running, stationary bikes, or anything else. Being in generally better shape will serve you well in life. All things being equal, you'll fight better, but you'll also be less likely to hurt yourself in a fall or car accident, and frankly, I'm at a bigger risk of a heart attack than I am of being in a fist or gun fight (actually, I'm not at risk of a heart attack, but I will be down the road), and getting some moderate excercise cuts your risk of all sorts of health problems when you start getting past middle age. .
I also have heard the criticism that most martial arts training systems focus on defending against particular attacks, and until you get into the higher levels, you're not getting experience defending against unexpected types of attacks. Therefore, you might be good defending against a throw, but if somebody tries something out of the box, you're not trained to defend. People don't have six years to get good at self defense, before they can use it on the street. However, if you can find a place that trains you to fight (like the armed forces or law enforcement or even some security companies do) you will have a big leg up.
All that said, all the martial arts classes I've taken have been great physical conditioning, and break up their routine better than running, stationary bikes, or anything else. Being in generally better shape will serve you well in life. All things being equal, you'll fight better, but you'll also be less likely to hurt yourself in a fall or car accident, and frankly, I'm at a bigger risk of a heart attack than I am of being in a fist or gun fight (actually, I'm not at risk of a heart attack, but I will be down the road), and getting some moderate excercise cuts your risk of all sorts of health problems when you start getting past middle age. .
Those of you who know me, you know what a martial arts freak I am. I hold three black belts in Iaido, Jodo, and Karate. I train twice a week (or more, if the mood hits me) in all three of these arts. (I don't say "style," 'cause what-the-heck is a "style," anyway? Your art is your art... but I digress...)
When you ask, "Should I train?", the answer is always, "YES!!!" But, when you ask, "What should I train?", I am reminded of a quote I read on a local Aikido dojo webpage, http://www.knoxvilleaikido.com/pages/aikido.html:
"Practice makes practical in aikido like many other martial arts. And, in the martial arts community, while many argue practicality, those who practice will become masters, while those who argue will just come up with arguments."
I've been walking around with that statement in my head for about a week now. I think it's poignant and quite relevant to this discussion. If you train hard, and learn the way the art functions in combat, then you will master the art, and thereby master the combat. If you knit-pick about it, and if you constantly second-guess the practicality of the art against a "real opponent," then you are distracting yourself from truly learning the art. Ultimately, you may learn to punch, kick, or throw, but you will never truly master your art.
Trust that the technique of your art works. Take it on faith, up front, that somehow, it works. From that point, set out to learn how it works. This is how we should train.
When you ask, "Should I train?", the answer is always, "YES!!!" But, when you ask, "What should I train?", I am reminded of a quote I read on a local Aikido dojo webpage, http://www.knoxvilleaikido.com/pages/aikido.html:
"Practice makes practical in aikido like many other martial arts. And, in the martial arts community, while many argue practicality, those who practice will become masters, while those who argue will just come up with arguments."
I've been walking around with that statement in my head for about a week now. I think it's poignant and quite relevant to this discussion. If you train hard, and learn the way the art functions in combat, then you will master the art, and thereby master the combat. If you knit-pick about it, and if you constantly second-guess the practicality of the art against a "real opponent," then you are distracting yourself from truly learning the art. Ultimately, you may learn to punch, kick, or throw, but you will never truly master your art.
Trust that the technique of your art works. Take it on faith, up front, that somehow, it works. From that point, set out to learn how it works. This is how we should train.
I would recommend a art that encourages sparring. Its one thing to memorize a techniqe its quite another be able to execute said technique on a uncooperative opponent.
The ideal place to learn imo is a MMA or mixed martial art school, which is what you see being practiced in MMA promotions such as the UFC, Pride, IFL or what not.
Yes I realize that MMA is a sport, however, its self defense applications are very real. All you have to do is just add the dirt (eye gouges, groin strikes).
In fact the early UFC's only had two rules, no biting and no eye gouging, groin strikes were legal. You dont need a martial arts instructor to show you how to do those 2 things.
I would recomend, boxing, muay thai, judo, a mma school, brazilian jui-jitsu, sambo, wrestling, kyokushin karate, basically any martial art that has a fair amount of sparring that does not limit you to much as some can (tae kwon do).
If you dont have access to a mma school, take a grappling art for awhile (judo, sambo, wrestling, brazilan jui-jitsu etc) and then take a striking art for awhile (boxing, Muay thai, savate, etc) for a well rounded skill set.
The ideal place to learn imo is a MMA or mixed martial art school, which is what you see being practiced in MMA promotions such as the UFC, Pride, IFL or what not.
Yes I realize that MMA is a sport, however, its self defense applications are very real. All you have to do is just add the dirt (eye gouges, groin strikes).
In fact the early UFC's only had two rules, no biting and no eye gouging, groin strikes were legal. You dont need a martial arts instructor to show you how to do those 2 things.
I would recomend, boxing, muay thai, judo, a mma school, brazilian jui-jitsu, sambo, wrestling, kyokushin karate, basically any martial art that has a fair amount of sparring that does not limit you to much as some can (tae kwon do).
If you dont have access to a mma school, take a grappling art for awhile (judo, sambo, wrestling, brazilan jui-jitsu etc) and then take a striking art for awhile (boxing, Muay thai, savate, etc) for a well rounded skill set.
Martial arts are great - When neither you nor your opponent has a gun.
I dont think the TYPE of martial art is important. Each one has distinct advantages and disadvantages. As long as you practice and are good at it, any one of the major disiplines - you should be able to beat your opponent. Its not about the specific martial art that is going to win the fight for you its your skill vs the BGs skill.
Once a firearm is in play, all rules are out.
I dont think the TYPE of martial art is important. Each one has distinct advantages and disadvantages. As long as you practice and are good at it, any one of the major disiplines - you should be able to beat your opponent. Its not about the specific martial art that is going to win the fight for you its your skill vs the BGs skill.
Once a firearm is in play, all rules are out.
All you have to do is just add the dirt (eye gouges, groin strikes).
You can say that about any martial art, in fact, many of them teach those things as part of the curriculum.
I'm not singling any one person out here, but it chaps my hide when someone who has minimal experience tries to make recommendations, especially when it's based upon something that he/she read, or my personal favorite "My buddy trained in xxxx style and said xxxx style is better/worse than xxxx style".
I also get a kick out of people who like to bash Taekwondo, basically acting like they know all it's strengths/weaknesses because of what their buddy who took some free lessons from the local Karate America told them.
To the original question from Wayfaring_Stranger:
Open up your phone book and start calling. Take as many free lessons from as many schools as you can. Don't make your decision solely based on the system/style, but rather which place you feel more comfortable at, and which one keeps your interest the most. That part is the most important. If it bores you, you won't go. Avoid any place that requires lengthy contracts with large payments up front. In my personal experience, avoid any place affiliated with the American Taekwondo Association (ATA).
Don't be afraid to ask the instructor questions about his qualifications. When did he start training? Who did he train under? How long has he been instructing? Does he teach most of the classes or is most of the instructing passed off to Assistant instructors and/or other Black Belts?
Ask about the "hidden" fees, such as belt testing fees, equipment fees, etc. That's when you find out how much the training will *really* cost you.
Lastly, ignore any one's advice on which style to take, EVERYONE is going to recommend THEIR style/school to you, which is why I've refrained from stating what style(s) I train in, or where I train. Reiterating what I said above, find something that YOU feel comfortable with. You're the one that has to go to the classes and pay the fees.
You can say that about any martial art, in fact, many of them teach those things as part of the curriculum.
I'm not singling any one person out here, but it chaps my hide when someone who has minimal experience tries to make recommendations, especially when it's based upon something that he/she read, or my personal favorite "My buddy trained in xxxx style and said xxxx style is better/worse than xxxx style".
I also get a kick out of people who like to bash Taekwondo, basically acting like they know all it's strengths/weaknesses because of what their buddy who took some free lessons from the local Karate America told them.
To the original question from Wayfaring_Stranger:
Open up your phone book and start calling. Take as many free lessons from as many schools as you can. Don't make your decision solely based on the system/style, but rather which place you feel more comfortable at, and which one keeps your interest the most. That part is the most important. If it bores you, you won't go. Avoid any place that requires lengthy contracts with large payments up front. In my personal experience, avoid any place affiliated with the American Taekwondo Association (ATA).
Don't be afraid to ask the instructor questions about his qualifications. When did he start training? Who did he train under? How long has he been instructing? Does he teach most of the classes or is most of the instructing passed off to Assistant instructors and/or other Black Belts?
Ask about the "hidden" fees, such as belt testing fees, equipment fees, etc. That's when you find out how much the training will *really* cost you.
Lastly, ignore any one's advice on which style to take, EVERYONE is going to recommend THEIR style/school to you, which is why I've refrained from stating what style(s) I train in, or where I train. Reiterating what I said above, find something that YOU feel comfortable with. You're the one that has to go to the classes and pay the fees.
Wayfaring_Stranger
New member
Wow, I got my $'s worth for this thread. Thanks all for the posts, it gives me lots to think about.
martial arts
I started in the local Golden Gloves program when I was young, then did a year with a tang soo do instructor who had returned from military service and was enrolled at the local university. My freshman year in college I started ****o ryu karate - still at it after 35 years in the same organization.
I am a co-owner of a dojo where we teach ****o ryu and ryukyu kobudo (Okinawan weapons). In addition, I built a training facility at my home. I started study of Japanese sword arts around 1991 - I now study 2 styles, one of which is very straightforward, with a focus on clean, powerful cutting strokes, body movement to avoid your opponents cut while striking, etc. The other style is one of the hereditary classical arts, very aggressive with both long and short swords. I teach a small group of students in an advanced program that is focused around sword, but also involves escrima and jujitsu (I have an instructor who comes in weekly to teach these) as well as firearms. The firearms is primarily pistol, as that is my thing. We also do some really intense physical training. This group is limited to a maximum of six, and is really where I do my training. During the summer, I usually have one or two of the students living at my house. We train daily, as Musashi advised: "The Way is in daily training".
The important thing is that I do it because I love it - not to get to a certain rank, not to lose weight, etc., etc. I simply enjoy training more than other activities.
IMHO, if what you are looking for is some empty hand ability to supplement your range and options in connection with CCW, traditional martial arts are not the path to go. They will get you there, along with a lot of other benefits, but by far not the most efficient program. A good conditioning program, a training program that integrates mental training and conditioning with some straightforward striking / grappling defense.
Just because an organization has the words "self defense" in their advertising doesn't mean they are providing either reliable information about themselves or training that will make you competent at defending yourself.
· They are selling you something – the idea of a competent physical answer to interpersonal violence. To support this, many schools focus on only the physical piece, building the belief that the best response to violence is a physical response rather than awareness, prediction and avoidance.
· The techniques taught are both untested and unreliable against what you are likely to encounter – most importantly, how criminals and predators really operate.
· The training typically plays to preconceived ideas, unfounded assumptions about how violence actually happens in the real world, and how things happen on TV and in the movies.
· Most fail to consider what happens when the violence is real: adrenal stress and the ingrained moral/ethical inhibitions against violence (see Grossman).
Here is what you may have to deal with in the real world:
open hand – striking and grappling
Impact Weapons
Edged Weapons
and
Pistols-up close
A BG can use anyone of those – and often if things go physical you will have to deal with transitions in a fast moving environment. Even if you are armed, you may start with your open hands. You definitely need the skill to get your weapon out and be able to use it after you are engaged.
To complement basic personal safety/defense and to complement CCW, I think your training should:
Emphasize the study of pre-assault indicators and how to avoid being selected as a victim
integrate methods of deployment for your weapons
utilize realistic defenses to realistic attacks, the type that are likely to occur
utilize practice against a resisting partner who is not “playing along”
doesn't assume that people will always play in your best skill set.
For well rounded training, the muay thai / jujitsu route is really pretty good for a solid training base.
I started in the local Golden Gloves program when I was young, then did a year with a tang soo do instructor who had returned from military service and was enrolled at the local university. My freshman year in college I started ****o ryu karate - still at it after 35 years in the same organization.
I am a co-owner of a dojo where we teach ****o ryu and ryukyu kobudo (Okinawan weapons). In addition, I built a training facility at my home. I started study of Japanese sword arts around 1991 - I now study 2 styles, one of which is very straightforward, with a focus on clean, powerful cutting strokes, body movement to avoid your opponents cut while striking, etc. The other style is one of the hereditary classical arts, very aggressive with both long and short swords. I teach a small group of students in an advanced program that is focused around sword, but also involves escrima and jujitsu (I have an instructor who comes in weekly to teach these) as well as firearms. The firearms is primarily pistol, as that is my thing. We also do some really intense physical training. This group is limited to a maximum of six, and is really where I do my training. During the summer, I usually have one or two of the students living at my house. We train daily, as Musashi advised: "The Way is in daily training".
The important thing is that I do it because I love it - not to get to a certain rank, not to lose weight, etc., etc. I simply enjoy training more than other activities.
IMHO, if what you are looking for is some empty hand ability to supplement your range and options in connection with CCW, traditional martial arts are not the path to go. They will get you there, along with a lot of other benefits, but by far not the most efficient program. A good conditioning program, a training program that integrates mental training and conditioning with some straightforward striking / grappling defense.
Just because an organization has the words "self defense" in their advertising doesn't mean they are providing either reliable information about themselves or training that will make you competent at defending yourself.
· They are selling you something – the idea of a competent physical answer to interpersonal violence. To support this, many schools focus on only the physical piece, building the belief that the best response to violence is a physical response rather than awareness, prediction and avoidance.
· The techniques taught are both untested and unreliable against what you are likely to encounter – most importantly, how criminals and predators really operate.
· The training typically plays to preconceived ideas, unfounded assumptions about how violence actually happens in the real world, and how things happen on TV and in the movies.
· Most fail to consider what happens when the violence is real: adrenal stress and the ingrained moral/ethical inhibitions against violence (see Grossman).
Here is what you may have to deal with in the real world:
open hand – striking and grappling
Impact Weapons
Edged Weapons
and
Pistols-up close
A BG can use anyone of those – and often if things go physical you will have to deal with transitions in a fast moving environment. Even if you are armed, you may start with your open hands. You definitely need the skill to get your weapon out and be able to use it after you are engaged.
To complement basic personal safety/defense and to complement CCW, I think your training should:
Emphasize the study of pre-assault indicators and how to avoid being selected as a victim
integrate methods of deployment for your weapons
utilize realistic defenses to realistic attacks, the type that are likely to occur
utilize practice against a resisting partner who is not “playing along”
doesn't assume that people will always play in your best skill set.
For well rounded training, the muay thai / jujitsu route is really pretty good for a solid training base.
WS
I have studied aikido for more than a decade. It is a different style and where you learn can make all of the difference. There are some devastating techniques in aikido. However, there are also dojos and sensei's who teach it more along the lines of Tai Chi. If you look into it, ask is their style soft or hard. Is the dojo affiliated with ASU or USAF? Most USAF schools teach a harder style. Also, there are no offensive moves in traditional aikido because Ueshiba Sensei believed that if you were the attacker you were morally wrong. However, there are people who have modified aikido to include attacks - Segal Sensei. Aikido is also a very mental and spiritual art. That helps you maintain focus, calm and concentration under pressure. You will train against Boken, Jo (Sword & staff), from your knees and against multiple opponents. Most dojos do not award any colored belts and don't consider you a serious student until you achieve your black belt. Most aikido dojos are not black belt mills and it can take several years to earn your black belt.
I enjoy it and would recommend it if you find the right dojo.
I have studied aikido for more than a decade. It is a different style and where you learn can make all of the difference. There are some devastating techniques in aikido. However, there are also dojos and sensei's who teach it more along the lines of Tai Chi. If you look into it, ask is their style soft or hard. Is the dojo affiliated with ASU or USAF? Most USAF schools teach a harder style. Also, there are no offensive moves in traditional aikido because Ueshiba Sensei believed that if you were the attacker you were morally wrong. However, there are people who have modified aikido to include attacks - Segal Sensei. Aikido is also a very mental and spiritual art. That helps you maintain focus, calm and concentration under pressure. You will train against Boken, Jo (Sword & staff), from your knees and against multiple opponents. Most dojos do not award any colored belts and don't consider you a serious student until you achieve your black belt. Most aikido dojos are not black belt mills and it can take several years to earn your black belt.
I enjoy it and would recommend it if you find the right dojo.
I studied Kenpo for about 7 years. The man I studied under had studied directly under Ed Parker (The father of American Kenpo) in Hawaii many, many years ago. The man that I studied under was Hawaiin and he and his brothers basically developed their own style of Kenpo, much like the Gracie's did down in Brazil. This man's son and I studied under him from the time we were 13 to 20. It was just him and I and we studied 4 days a week in his garage. No belts, no "Katas" (stupid dances), just concentrated offensive and defensive technique. Now, I admit, this wasn't the watered down Kenpo that you find in most of the Kenpo places these days. After the death of Ed Parker in 1990, the art of American Kenpo has progressively went downhill with so many people breaking from the traditional ways and techniques and trying to introduce new things that may be popular right now (all for the mighty dollar). I was lucky enough to train and study under a man who learned from Ed Parker first hand. If you can find anyone who learned the Ed Parker style of Kenpo either first or second hand, I would strongly recommend that you look into it. I do laugh at people who consider Tae Kwon Do a legitimate form of martial arts in America. Tae Kwon do has become so watered down and is so much a business now that it is more of a sport where you can literally buy a black belt. It is not the form of martial art that is started out as way back when in Korea. I have seen many people who studied American Tae Kwon do who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Yet I have a good friend that I knew while I was growing up who lived at a Korean Tae TaeKwondo "camp" in Korea from a young boy to adulthood. His aerial techniques and leg strength was unbelievable. He could literally jump over me from a flatfooted position. But, that is not what is being taught here in America.
I have a professional mma match or "cage fight" under my belt, not to mention over 3 years of training in mma, I am not a complete noob.
Watch this video, it is excellent and should help you decide.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2068450760833041053&q=matt+thornton+aliveness&hl=en
Watch this video, it is excellent and should help you decide.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2068450760833041053&q=matt+thornton+aliveness&hl=en
spacemanspiff
New member
I've been following the art of Run'fu.
I run like a fool from bad things!
I run like a fool from bad things!
I have a professional mma match or "cage fight" under my belt, not to mention over 3 years of training in mma, I am not a complete noob.
I wasn't directing anything at you, so I hope you didn't take it as such.
Congrats on your cage fight, I sincerely respect you for doing that. Other than your 3 years in mma, what other experience do you have? You named a lot of styles as recommendations...what experience do you have with them? You also singled out Taekwondo, what experience do you have with it?
I wasn't directing anything at you, so I hope you didn't take it as such.
Congrats on your cage fight, I sincerely respect you for doing that. Other than your 3 years in mma, what other experience do you have? You named a lot of styles as recommendations...what experience do you have with them? You also singled out Taekwondo, what experience do you have with it?
I wasn't directing anything at you, so I hope you didn't take it as such.
Congrats on your cage fight, I sincerely respect you for doing that. Other than your 3 years in mma, what other experience do you have? You named a lot of styles as recommendations...what experience do you have with them? You also singled out Taekwondo, what experience do you have with it?
No offense taken.
I won my fight by technical knock out too in the first round, I also broke his collar bone when I took him down. It was first and only fight and win. My opponent had defeated a black belt in karate before he had fought me.
I only have experience in mma, no other martial arts besides the worthless stuff they taught us in the corrections training adademy.
The styles I recommended are all martial arts and have a competition aspect to them and have proven themselves in the crucible of mixed martial arts or vale tudo fighting, although today everyone in mma cross trains, its really bruce lee's concept of jeet kune do take to its logical conclusion.
Competition like everything else, weeds out some of the stuff in the more traditional martial arts that simply not effective, especially against a trained opponent. There is a reason boxers keep their hands up and fight the way they do under those rules. Its not that some of elaborate punches are not allowed, its that trying them would get you knocked out.
Even Bruce Lee himself said a person with 1 year of training in boxing and wrestling would beat many black belts with 20 years of training.
Sports/martial arts that participate in full contact competition, weed out techniqes that are not realistic or will not work against resisting opponents.
I have seen it time and time again to in our school, where black belts in others come to our school and become humbled quite quickly, even by mma fighters who they outweigh considerably.
As a result of the MMA sporting events, martial arts training and the understanding of the combat effectiveness of various strategies have been argued to have evolved more in the ten years following 1993 than in the preceding 700 years.[19]
The early years of the sport saw the widest possible variety of traditional styles - everything from sumo to kickboxing - but the continual evolution of the sport has practically eliminated less effective and "pure" styles, usually because specialized fighters were lacking in skills to deal effectively with broader techniques.
Today, mixed martial artists train in a variety of styles that have been proven effective in the ring, so that they can be effective in all the phases of combat.
Although MMA fighters will try to play to their particular specialties, they will inevitably encounter all kinds of situations; a stand-up fighting specialist will probably get taken down at some point and a submission artist might need to fight standing-up for a while before he can complete a takedown.
A mixed martial artist might train in a particular style to enhance his or her skills in the phase of combat that the style encompasses
Typical styles, known for their effectiveness, that have been trained prior to the MMA career, and that are trained individually to enhance a particular phase of combat, are:
Stand-up: Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, and/or forms of full contact karate are trained to improve footwork, elbowing, kicking, kneeing and punching.
Clinch: Freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling, Sambo, and Judo are trained to improve clinching, takedowns and throws, while Muay Thai is trained to improve the striking aspect of the clinch.
Ground: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, shoot wrestling, catch wrestling, Judo, and Sambo are trained to improve submission holds, and defense against them. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and styles of amateur wrestling are trained to improve positioning and maintain ground control.
Those are they styles that are mostly trained, a mma school will mix them all up.
Even the army has caught on to the MMA revolution and its combatives training now has a brazilian jui-jitsu base.
Congrats on your cage fight, I sincerely respect you for doing that. Other than your 3 years in mma, what other experience do you have? You named a lot of styles as recommendations...what experience do you have with them? You also singled out Taekwondo, what experience do you have with it?
No offense taken.
I won my fight by technical knock out too in the first round, I also broke his collar bone when I took him down. It was first and only fight and win. My opponent had defeated a black belt in karate before he had fought me.
I only have experience in mma, no other martial arts besides the worthless stuff they taught us in the corrections training adademy.
The styles I recommended are all martial arts and have a competition aspect to them and have proven themselves in the crucible of mixed martial arts or vale tudo fighting, although today everyone in mma cross trains, its really bruce lee's concept of jeet kune do take to its logical conclusion.
Competition like everything else, weeds out some of the stuff in the more traditional martial arts that simply not effective, especially against a trained opponent. There is a reason boxers keep their hands up and fight the way they do under those rules. Its not that some of elaborate punches are not allowed, its that trying them would get you knocked out.
Even Bruce Lee himself said a person with 1 year of training in boxing and wrestling would beat many black belts with 20 years of training.
Sports/martial arts that participate in full contact competition, weed out techniqes that are not realistic or will not work against resisting opponents.
I have seen it time and time again to in our school, where black belts in others come to our school and become humbled quite quickly, even by mma fighters who they outweigh considerably.
As a result of the MMA sporting events, martial arts training and the understanding of the combat effectiveness of various strategies have been argued to have evolved more in the ten years following 1993 than in the preceding 700 years.[19]
The early years of the sport saw the widest possible variety of traditional styles - everything from sumo to kickboxing - but the continual evolution of the sport has practically eliminated less effective and "pure" styles, usually because specialized fighters were lacking in skills to deal effectively with broader techniques.
Today, mixed martial artists train in a variety of styles that have been proven effective in the ring, so that they can be effective in all the phases of combat.
Although MMA fighters will try to play to their particular specialties, they will inevitably encounter all kinds of situations; a stand-up fighting specialist will probably get taken down at some point and a submission artist might need to fight standing-up for a while before he can complete a takedown.
A mixed martial artist might train in a particular style to enhance his or her skills in the phase of combat that the style encompasses
Typical styles, known for their effectiveness, that have been trained prior to the MMA career, and that are trained individually to enhance a particular phase of combat, are:
Stand-up: Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, and/or forms of full contact karate are trained to improve footwork, elbowing, kicking, kneeing and punching.
Clinch: Freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling, Sambo, and Judo are trained to improve clinching, takedowns and throws, while Muay Thai is trained to improve the striking aspect of the clinch.
Ground: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, shoot wrestling, catch wrestling, Judo, and Sambo are trained to improve submission holds, and defense against them. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and styles of amateur wrestling are trained to improve positioning and maintain ground control.
Those are they styles that are mostly trained, a mma school will mix them all up.
Even the army has caught on to the MMA revolution and its combatives training now has a brazilian jui-jitsu base.
Be aware of "Belt Factories". Some places will promote you as long as you show up and pay the bill. When I took MA, there were no orange, purple, blue belts etc. The way I understand it, you were given a white belt to hold your pants up. Over time, it yellowed. By the time you were truly a martial artist, your belt was filthy (black). Make sure the instructor promotes based on merit and ability. No one under the age of 18 should be a black belt. I've seen such characters "cry" at competitions when thet miss a break or get a bad call. These are not black belt qualities, but I guess they paid their bill for several years.
Slugthrower
New member
Karate, Aikijutsu, Jujitsu and Arnis. Mixing it up is a good way to go. Be well rounded. One isn't enough. 
DonR101395
New member
A lot of good info here. I would have to agree with mma and Tanzer. Get a good cross section. I was a product of the black belt factory (ATA) I had a black belt at the age of 16 and at about the same time realized what had taken place over the previous three years. They may have changed since the mid 80's, I couldn't tell you. It turned me off of ma for the next 20+ years. I've just recently started toying with grappling/mma fighting(I turn 40 in a few months). This time for self improvement not some piece of cloth that says you should fear me I've won a bunch of tournaments.
The art of defense
I've taught Kenpo for 28 yrs [old Ed parker student] and teach Qui Gong. It helps strengthen the Chi and keeps you in shape. Want to study Hapkido. You can't always depend on a gun or knife being there, but the hands are permanently attached. Dressed out one time with Chuck Norris in Fort Smith Ark. He fought Super foot Wallace and won. He can almost kick a car over with his side kick. Practice to save yourself.
I've taught Kenpo for 28 yrs [old Ed parker student] and teach Qui Gong. It helps strengthen the Chi and keeps you in shape. Want to study Hapkido. You can't always depend on a gun or knife being there, but the hands are permanently attached. Dressed out one time with Chuck Norris in Fort Smith Ark. He fought Super foot Wallace and won. He can almost kick a car over with his side kick. Practice to save yourself.
I studied a traditional "combat" style of Jiu Jitsu called Hakko-Ryu. Both Brazilian JJ and Aikido came from this family of arts. In their original form they were designed to be (and were) used in battle and also by the Emperor's guards. There was no "grappling" taught within the style, although my Sensei brought in outside teachers occasionally to make sure we would have some proficiency if we were taken to the ground.
Many of the techiques we learned were originally designed for use against an opponent armed with a sword or knife (and many were actually designed to be used with a sword or knife). It was stressed that we were not being taught to fight, and the techniques were definitely not tournament friendly. We did learn some control techniques for use in less threatening situations, but most of what we were taught was designed to incapacitate the attacker, or at a minimum put him completely under your control.
Very often former Aikido students in our class would demonstrate the Aikido version of a technique we were learning, and it was obvious that Aikido's aim was not martial. Aikido is a beautiful and valuable art, but you would have to be VERY proficient before it would have much value as a defensive tool (other than the awareness and chi aspects). Big sweeping movements in Aikido were small tight movements in Hakko Ryu.
I was very lucky to find my Sensei, who had numerous Black Belts in other arts (he had started with Judo as a child), but said that when an 80 year old man threw him all over the dojo, he knew he had found the art for when he got older.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, as you can probably tell, I loved that art and teacher, so, if you can find a traditional Jiu Jitsu school you will not have to worry about grappling too much. Combine with a striking art for a balanced skill set, perhaps Krav Maga.
As always, much depends on the teacher. Watch as many classes as they will let you, decide if you think you will learn in a good, injury free (as much as possible) environment, and if what is being taught is something you will be excited to learn. I walked in and out of many places before I found that school. Many were about the teachers ego or wallet, many, through inexperience or carelessness made injuries almost guaranteed. If you're lucky you will find someone you can tell sincerely wants to teach- and has the ability.
Many of the techiques we learned were originally designed for use against an opponent armed with a sword or knife (and many were actually designed to be used with a sword or knife). It was stressed that we were not being taught to fight, and the techniques were definitely not tournament friendly. We did learn some control techniques for use in less threatening situations, but most of what we were taught was designed to incapacitate the attacker, or at a minimum put him completely under your control.
Very often former Aikido students in our class would demonstrate the Aikido version of a technique we were learning, and it was obvious that Aikido's aim was not martial. Aikido is a beautiful and valuable art, but you would have to be VERY proficient before it would have much value as a defensive tool (other than the awareness and chi aspects). Big sweeping movements in Aikido were small tight movements in Hakko Ryu.
I was very lucky to find my Sensei, who had numerous Black Belts in other arts (he had started with Judo as a child), but said that when an 80 year old man threw him all over the dojo, he knew he had found the art for when he got older.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, as you can probably tell, I loved that art and teacher, so, if you can find a traditional Jiu Jitsu school you will not have to worry about grappling too much. Combine with a striking art for a balanced skill set, perhaps Krav Maga.
As always, much depends on the teacher. Watch as many classes as they will let you, decide if you think you will learn in a good, injury free (as much as possible) environment, and if what is being taught is something you will be excited to learn. I walked in and out of many places before I found that school. Many were about the teachers ego or wallet, many, through inexperience or carelessness made injuries almost guaranteed. If you're lucky you will find someone you can tell sincerely wants to teach- and has the ability.
The way I understand it, you were given a white belt to hold your pants up. Over time, it yellowed. By the time you were truly a martial artist, your belt was filthy (black)
That is a martial arts myth.
The colored belt system was incorporated by Jiguro Kano, the founder of Judo. Other styles (such as Karate-Do, etc) took it and ran with it.
That is a martial arts myth.
The colored belt system was incorporated by Jiguro Kano, the founder of Judo. Other styles (such as Karate-Do, etc) took it and ran with it.