Marlin Microgroove barrel leading
- Thread starter mjm
- Start date
Btw, to "turpentine" mule, you swatted him on the bung with a rag full of it to wake it up and make it get moving.
Related to an article I read entitled'turpentining the 30-30.'..The article discussed how to get full post out of modern weapons by juicing the loads. Maybe 1950s?
Related to an article I read entitled'turpentining the 30-30.'..The article discussed how to get full post out of modern weapons by juicing the loads. Maybe 1950s?
g.willikers
New member
Bore scrubbing paste, like from J-B at the usual sources.
It's kind of like a mild version of valve grinding paste.
Works good.
It's kind of like a mild version of valve grinding paste.
Works good.
stubbicatt
New member
As I said, I don't have any experience with spirits of gum turpentine, but I've read several places where it will remove lead from the barrel.
Fortunately right now I don't have a leading issue, but when I do, I'll buy some and try it. I'll report back here with the results.
Aside: Seeing the effect it has on a mule, I wonder if it would work on hemorrhoids?
Fortunately right now I don't have a leading issue, but when I do, I'll buy some and try it. I'll report back here with the results.
Aside: Seeing the effect it has on a mule, I wonder if it would work on hemorrhoids?
I got a Lewis tool for my revolvers, results were nothing short of miraculous. It would probably be good for a long gun if you could get the fit right.
Long guns often suffer from ironed-on lead, what I call lead paint. Shooter's Choice Lead and J B Non-Abrasive work very well together, just don't get carried away. I once ruined a rifle barrel trying to clean it, but that was drastic overkill. I got the barrel too hot to touch and pumped furiously with Montana polish, which is abrasive. J B also makes an abrasive, Bore Bright, which looks like Red Rouge. The abrasives are probably safe if you use gentle full-length strokes and a good cleaning rod with a smooth ball bearing. Don't let the patch/jag skip over the lands.
A company called Sharp ShootR makes No-Lead, supposedly a chemical lead remover. It's not a foaming gel, you apply it with a patch, let it sit and patch it out once it has turned color. I tried to buy some but all you can do is say you want it and they call you, so maybe they only sell wholesale. If they got their act together they would post a list of their dealers, but I've looked at shows and haven't found it yet.
Long guns often suffer from ironed-on lead, what I call lead paint. Shooter's Choice Lead and J B Non-Abrasive work very well together, just don't get carried away. I once ruined a rifle barrel trying to clean it, but that was drastic overkill. I got the barrel too hot to touch and pumped furiously with Montana polish, which is abrasive. J B also makes an abrasive, Bore Bright, which looks like Red Rouge. The abrasives are probably safe if you use gentle full-length strokes and a good cleaning rod with a smooth ball bearing. Don't let the patch/jag skip over the lands.
A company called Sharp ShootR makes No-Lead, supposedly a chemical lead remover. It's not a foaming gel, you apply it with a patch, let it sit and patch it out once it has turned color. I tried to buy some but all you can do is say you want it and they call you, so maybe they only sell wholesale. If they got their act together they would post a list of their dealers, but I've looked at shows and haven't found it yet.
trapper9260
New member
What I have done in the past when I was shooting some factory lead 44 mag round in my redhawk and I got some leading bad and I went to re read my Lyman 3rd Ed Cast bullet book, it stated to do what the OP stated or like someone else stated to shoot jacket bullets. I did the first thing to try to get lead out but got no where with it so I did the jacket bullet and it took care of the problem.But do not do it often. i only did it that one time .Now since I cast my own bullets and make up my own alloy I do not get the leading anymore. Also need to use a bullet lube also that will work for the FPS you are going with.I make my own also on lube. It works for me .
Well, Jerry from SharpShootR just called me about my order. I've got some No Lead coming, and he suggests cleaning it out with his stuff too, so I ordered that as well. It sounds like some pretty good technology, so I'll use as directed, and I'll definitely let ya'all know how it works.
BTW, what I did, I fired a cast bullet in 416 Ruger that I was hoping would go maybe 1600 - 1700, didn't get a reading, fired another and saw about 2150. I guess that one-thou-over slug hit the rifling, obdurated and gave me a much better burn. It was a gas check bullet with good lube, but just that one-two gave me the lead paint job, easily observed in a big bore. I've been cleaning in a leisurely manner with Shooter's Choice Lead and J-B Non Embedding and have produced tons of solid black patches. I fired the rifle since then, a cast load around 1300 and some full-house jacketed as well, and it didn't seem to make any difference, my cleaning project picked up right where I left off. The lead is a lot thinner and I've got bare metal showing, but I'm going to wait for the new product before I do any more cleaning.
BTW, what I did, I fired a cast bullet in 416 Ruger that I was hoping would go maybe 1600 - 1700, didn't get a reading, fired another and saw about 2150. I guess that one-thou-over slug hit the rifling, obdurated and gave me a much better burn. It was a gas check bullet with good lube, but just that one-two gave me the lead paint job, easily observed in a big bore. I've been cleaning in a leisurely manner with Shooter's Choice Lead and J-B Non Embedding and have produced tons of solid black patches. I fired the rifle since then, a cast load around 1300 and some full-house jacketed as well, and it didn't seem to make any difference, my cleaning project picked up right where I left off. The lead is a lot thinner and I've got bare metal showing, but I'm going to wait for the new product before I do any more cleaning.
Goatwhiskers
New member
A gentle correction:
obturate: to seal against gas leakage
obdurate: hard headed; don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.
GW
obturate: to seal against gas leakage
obdurate: hard headed; don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.
GW
Abrasive bore cleaners will produce black patches as long as they are used.
It is the nature of the beast. A patch with abrasive bore cleaner can be pushed through a perfectly clean bore and still produce the black patch. This leads the person cleaning the bore to believe that the bore is so dirty that it will not clean. So, more abrasive bore cleaner is used and yet there is no gain from doing so.
It is the nature of the beast. A patch with abrasive bore cleaner can be pushed through a perfectly clean bore and still produce the black patch. This leads the person cleaning the bore to believe that the bore is so dirty that it will not clean. So, more abrasive bore cleaner is used and yet there is no gain from doing so.
Update
Several people asked for an update. I am still working on the leading problem in the bore, but it is still a problem for me. I tried almost all of the ideas posted in response to my original post (at least the ones I had not already tried). The only thing that I have not tried is the Kroil. I just bought a can and will try it this weekend.
I was not surprised the chemical methods did not work. The one thing that I thought would help was shooting a number of jacketed bullets to heat up the barrel, followed by 3/4 jacket bullets to scrape the lead.
If the Kroil does not work, I may have to visit a gunsmith.
Several people asked for an update. I am still working on the leading problem in the bore, but it is still a problem for me. I tried almost all of the ideas posted in response to my original post (at least the ones I had not already tried). The only thing that I have not tried is the Kroil. I just bought a can and will try it this weekend.
I was not surprised the chemical methods did not work. The one thing that I thought would help was shooting a number of jacketed bullets to heat up the barrel, followed by 3/4 jacket bullets to scrape the lead.
If the Kroil does not work, I may have to visit a gunsmith.
Do not fire jacketed bullets through the leaded barrel. It only irons the lead on and raises pressures. You can look through other threads and find that there are many, many people who don't like that idea for obvious reasons. Or you can listen to the many other people who will jump in here and argue that jacketed bullets over lead can't ever hurt.
I lied the other day, someone asked me if I had some mercury I was willing to give up and I said no. I could have said yes and no meaning I have some mercury but am not willing to share/sell/trade etc..
I have never found mercury necessary; I have 4 small cans of LEAD OUT. I used it once and it worked. I use copper screens for sifting and decorations for artsy people. I have screen holders for shotguns and everything else gets the old towel on the dowel but instead of the towel I use the screen.
And then one day a shooter told me he shot the lead out with a jacketed bullet. I informed him that never worked for me because the lead in the barrel will get run over by the jacketed bullet. I told him about another group that turned their bullets around with the flat side out and shot the lead out. I then said if I am going to shoot lead and jacketed bullets from the same gun I am going to shoot the jacketed first and then the lead.
And then there are additional slides with barrels, shoot lead in one and jacked through the other.
F. Guffey
I also have a very nice Marlin .41 mag (M94S) that I got on gunbroker 7 or eight years ago now. After checking it out when I first got it, and satisfied it was ready to shoot, I loaded up some store bought, pre-lubed, 215 grn. semi-WCs, which were sized @ .412 (maybe .411s may have been better) and took it out to the range.
After shooting it a half dozen times I realized from the 6-8" pattern I was getting from 50 yards off the bench, I knew I had an issue. My thought was, "Yeah, that's why it was offered on gunbroker..."
After doing the lever and breechblock disassembly (really love the Marlin design and easy takedown to clean from the breech), I went to cleaning. After a fair solvent, patch and jag session, I looked down the bore and could see a bunch of little dark pock marks in there. I knew exactly what those were from past experiences shooting my Sharps rifles (B.P. and cast bullets). So, I went to my next step...
I have some bore solvent made by a company called Shiloh Creek, and their lead removal solvent is first rate. Problem is, it's near impossible to find anymore. I've heard it's still available, but I've yet to find any more on the market (luckily, I have a fair stash of the stuff, and I rue the day when I run out). BUT, there's another outfit that offers a lead removing solvent and they claim it's every bit as good as the Shiloh Creek stuff. Here's the website:
www.sagebrushproducts.com
When you get in there, go to the cleaning supplies box and click on it. Then click on cleaners and lubes: then find the "Extreme lead remover" offering. It's supposed to be very good for the problem.
Also, how aggressive are you getting with your solvents and jag? I know when I have a bad leading issue, I use a very, very tight, solvent filled patch on a proper jag and tap (lightly; just enough to keep the rod moving) the rod through the bore with a rubber mallet (use a bore guide, too). When I did this on my .41 after that first shooting session, I was getting shards of lead over 1/4" long on the patches, and it took quite a while using this method before I didn't see any more lead coming out on the patches (I use 100% cotton patches, too). I can't help but think whoever owned the rifle before me either didn't know about leading problems, or thought the gun was just plain inaccurate (just speculation here, certain sure).
Also, when shooting cast bullets through any of my rifles, I don't use a brush at all; just solvent patch and jag until I don't see any more lead on the patch. Then, I put a couple of dry patches through the barrel to get the excess bore solvent out, followed by a lightly dampened patch of gun oil.
After that lead-borne cleaning session, I loaded up some Speer, Deep Curl, H.P. jackets and took it to the range again. My first 5 shots off the bench at 50 yards gave me a group of just a tad over 1" using just the factory barrel sights. I've been using those bullets ever since, and have since had that same accuracy using a 20 grain charge of H110 under those Speer bullets. I also have no doubt that the rifle will shoot even better than that if I just had my young eyes again. Still, I'm happy with the accuracy with my old eyesight.
Some will say the micro-groove barrels aren't good for shooting cast, and others will say that's not true (my JM, .41 has micro-groove). At this point I can't say one way or the other. I just know I had some bad leading in my .41, and you may want to try my lead removal method or not. I know it works for me.
On shooting my Sharps rifles (I have two Shilohs; 45/70 and 45/90), and using B.P. and cast bullets (no gas checks, either) my leading issues come from when I shoot a fair amount on a given day (say 50 or 60 rounds) and the weather's quite warm; that's when I'll have an issue come the end of the day when the cleaning begins. I'll usually pull some lead out of my 45/90, but it's never terribly bad, and my accuracy is still there even after that last shot.
Hope some of this might be of help. Good luck "getting the lead out."
After shooting it a half dozen times I realized from the 6-8" pattern I was getting from 50 yards off the bench, I knew I had an issue. My thought was, "Yeah, that's why it was offered on gunbroker..."
After doing the lever and breechblock disassembly (really love the Marlin design and easy takedown to clean from the breech), I went to cleaning. After a fair solvent, patch and jag session, I looked down the bore and could see a bunch of little dark pock marks in there. I knew exactly what those were from past experiences shooting my Sharps rifles (B.P. and cast bullets). So, I went to my next step...
I have some bore solvent made by a company called Shiloh Creek, and their lead removal solvent is first rate. Problem is, it's near impossible to find anymore. I've heard it's still available, but I've yet to find any more on the market (luckily, I have a fair stash of the stuff, and I rue the day when I run out). BUT, there's another outfit that offers a lead removing solvent and they claim it's every bit as good as the Shiloh Creek stuff. Here's the website:
www.sagebrushproducts.com
When you get in there, go to the cleaning supplies box and click on it. Then click on cleaners and lubes: then find the "Extreme lead remover" offering. It's supposed to be very good for the problem.
Also, how aggressive are you getting with your solvents and jag? I know when I have a bad leading issue, I use a very, very tight, solvent filled patch on a proper jag and tap (lightly; just enough to keep the rod moving) the rod through the bore with a rubber mallet (use a bore guide, too). When I did this on my .41 after that first shooting session, I was getting shards of lead over 1/4" long on the patches, and it took quite a while using this method before I didn't see any more lead coming out on the patches (I use 100% cotton patches, too). I can't help but think whoever owned the rifle before me either didn't know about leading problems, or thought the gun was just plain inaccurate (just speculation here, certain sure).
Also, when shooting cast bullets through any of my rifles, I don't use a brush at all; just solvent patch and jag until I don't see any more lead on the patch. Then, I put a couple of dry patches through the barrel to get the excess bore solvent out, followed by a lightly dampened patch of gun oil.
After that lead-borne cleaning session, I loaded up some Speer, Deep Curl, H.P. jackets and took it to the range again. My first 5 shots off the bench at 50 yards gave me a group of just a tad over 1" using just the factory barrel sights. I've been using those bullets ever since, and have since had that same accuracy using a 20 grain charge of H110 under those Speer bullets. I also have no doubt that the rifle will shoot even better than that if I just had my young eyes again. Still, I'm happy with the accuracy with my old eyesight.
Some will say the micro-groove barrels aren't good for shooting cast, and others will say that's not true (my JM, .41 has micro-groove). At this point I can't say one way or the other. I just know I had some bad leading in my .41, and you may want to try my lead removal method or not. I know it works for me.
On shooting my Sharps rifles (I have two Shilohs; 45/70 and 45/90), and using B.P. and cast bullets (no gas checks, either) my leading issues come from when I shoot a fair amount on a given day (say 50 or 60 rounds) and the weather's quite warm; that's when I'll have an issue come the end of the day when the cleaning begins. I'll usually pull some lead out of my 45/90, but it's never terribly bad, and my accuracy is still there even after that last shot.
Hope some of this might be of help. Good luck "getting the lead out."