Many Democrats want America to fail in Iraq

goslash they were mooslim terrorists. It was on the Oreilly factor. Im sure the liberal media elites are going to be more sensitive and shuffle the truth around and then just bury it.

We are NOT torturing detainees. Who is Intentionally killing civilians?


And, who puts this trash out in print to form te average guys opinion?

The NYTs newspaper is very anti-Bush, lies, and all of us in danger with such reckless story telling.

They just printed on their front page today how the FBI found them. And like the self centered liberals they are exposed another tactic LEO uses to catch these Muslim killers.
 
The elite media shows a cold coloring of Americas mission in Iraq and they sneak that color into their so-called news.

Sad thing is, they never have to back up their baloney.
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Of course not! Only conservative commentators are to be demanded of "proof." You can see that just by looking at this thread.:D
 
We are making great strides against terrorism and for democracy in Iraq. If you don't belive that, ask yourself when the last time America has been attacked or the last time a legitimate vote happened in Iraq.

The military is doing its job, protecting America. If that means taking the fight to where the terrorists live and becoming targets themselves, so be it. Don't tell me democracy is not happening in Iraq. There is more democracy in Iraq than America. The proof of that is in the fact that the voter turn out was something like 3-4 times that of America. Women have seats in the Iraqi government and an actual vote. People have a say. That is democracy.

Back on topic. Dmeocrats want the Republicans to look bad. It hides the fact that their party is rotten to the core and being pulled in a thousand directions. They are about as unified as Germany, circa 1946. The best thing that could happen to the dems is if we failed in Iraq. Until someone pointed out that the dems lack of support caused it that is.

When we got Al-Zacoward the media shrugged it off and said it wouldn't make any difference. I beg to differ. These guys are hard to find. We found 'em and got 'em. With intel from inside the network no less! That would have been unheard of a few years ago. Possibly another sign we are making a difference? I am sure someone will bring up osama. They always do. He is dead in a cave somewhere. Environments like caves are just no good for dialisis(sp?). But he is too valueable to the jihad so they made sure to hide him real good.
 
Heck, they weren't even Arab or Muslim!
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Hey Slash,
I don't think you will get any debate over the former, the latter on the other hand is the shoe I am waiting to hear fall. It wouldn't surprise me to hear their Muslim names have been with held at this time. The quotes I have been hearing have all sounded very familiar.

"by agreeing to provide personnel, including themselves, to work under Al Qaeda's direction and control, knowing that Al Qaeda has engaged or engages in terrorist activity,"

"We want to kill all the devils we can,"
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The difference between the US as it was when we won wars and since we have been loosing is, IMO, the failure to prosecute sedition and treason. The sooner we begin prosecuting these two serious crimes the sooner we will begin winning wars again.
 
The difference between the US as it was when we won wars and since we have been loosing is, IMO, the failure to prosecute sedition and treason.
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Today, sedition and treason are called "freedom of speech.":barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:
 
Slash, I just read your last post...twice. There is no evidence we are losing this war in it anywhere. All itis is opinions and regurgitations of leftmedia garbage. How about some real evidence now. ERIC
 
I would change the word democrats to leftists in the thread title. It's more inclusive. Also harder to argue with. All you need to do is read the NY times today and see where they have exposed another secret intel gathering method to know that they arent interested in winning anything but liberal power in congress. ERIC

See how I'm tryin to be inclusive n diverse?:p
 
Pipoman,
Here's the other shoe:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060624...omzTnes0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Relatives described the defendants as deeply religious people who studied the Bible and took classes in Islam. Joseph Phanor, the father of defendant Stanley Grant Phanor, said his son went to classes on Islam with a friend but that he read the Bible at his father's house.
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Yesterday the sister of one of the terrorists said in an interview that her brother was Catholic.

AFA the 'sedition' nonsense, I'll just say that even if the entire country believed that we were winning we would be no closer to actually doing so. Play hopscotch on the freeway and demand that nobody tell you you're gonna get hit. I guarantee you that ain't gonna help.
It's not enough to 'believe', you have to do what it takes to win.

Big Ruger,
My last post was in response to a question about my opinion. When I'm asked for facts about something, I will happily provide them.

I'll just put this question out there for all of you: How many Iraqis do we have to kill in order to defeat terrorism? It doesn't have to be a specific number. A rough guess is fine. A thousand? Ten million? All of 'em? If we turned Iraq into a parking lot, would that defeat terrorism? What about the entire Middle East? Would *that* defeat terrorism?
 
red, leif sure takes me seriously. Heck he thinks im a troll.

I see opinions on this forum I don't like too, if they bother me that much, I just walk away, usualy.

I have to say I agree with the thread starter here. The elite media shows a cold coloring of Americas mission in Iraq and they sneak that color into their so-called news.

On top of that, they pretend they only opine in their opinion section

Sad thing is, they never have to back up their baloney.
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I didn't say I don't take you seriously; it's your opinions that I have trouble following because I need a little more than just an emotional response and supposition. Just because someone says the Democrats want America to fail doesn't mean I'm about to believe them without some sort of evidence.

Aside from the MSN article about the UN that we're not going to agree on :P what other articles have you seen from liberal media outlets that are doing what you say they are?


Of course not! Only conservative commentators are to be demanded of "proof." You can see that just by looking at this thread
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Actually, no. I'm not asking for proof from the right wing media, I'm asking for examples from you guys. I put no more or less stock into what either politically biased side of the news says but if YOU are going to make a claim about either side then it would be nice to see it backed up.


Today, sedition and treason are called "freedom of speech."
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Wow. Yeah, you guys sure are lovers of freedom. :confused:
 
That's just the media's take on the whole story. I would like to know why this particular religion seems to be using the disturbing term "white devils"? And why does the liberal media tolerate it, and even cover it up?

Im not trying to start a debate over religion or move away from thread topic. But I notice the term "white devil" slowly making its way into dialog more.
 
Interesting concept worm, so, does that mean the next time someone,anyone is feeling a wee bit hateful, racist,and a little homicidal, they can start calling others disturbing hatefilled terms? All because, well if the shoe fits.
 
Interesting concept worm, so, does that mean the next time someone,anyone is feeling a wee bit hateful, racist,and a little homicidal, they can start calling others disturbing hatefilled terms? All because, well if the shoe fits.
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I believe people should be able to call others whatever they damn well please. There is no right to protection from being offended.
 
You have to look no further then yesterdays media coverage of the FBI's report of the arrests. The media's only concern was how many laws and rights were violated while making the arrest of these dumb yahoo's that were too stupid to carry out the plot anyway before the authorities entrapped them. And of course this was all set up to boost the republican ratings before the election by that mastermind GWB, who by the way is too dumb to tie his shoes.

kenny b
 
'White Devil' was a term coined by militant black groups, not the Muslims. They prefer to call us 'the great hated Satan'.
 
You mean like the new black panthers? wilth all the cool sounding muslim names? and the funky little beanies? Those cats make me laugh, I am the honorable fareak bubu and you are the devil all in monotone, priceless.:D

calypso louie Farkhan is out there man. ERIC
 
I'll just put this question out there for all of you: How many Iraqis do we have to kill in order to defeat terrorism? It doesn't have to be a specific number. A rough guess is fine. A thousand? Ten million? All of 'em? If we turned Iraq into a parking lot, would that defeat terrorism? What about the entire Middle East? Would *that* defeat terrorism?
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First off, most of the insurgents are not from Iraq. Secondly, killing Iraqis is not the mission, so measuring it buy such is not adequate. The mission is to defeat terrorism. The weapon of choice is to bring democracy to the region. You can never defeat terrorism. But you can limit it by counter intel, making the alternatives seem better, and showing the vast majority of people that it is a fools game.

By bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan we hope to acceive a "domino effect" similar to Vietnam, only with a positive influence. When people are not governed by religon it eliminates state sponsored holy wars(terrorism). When was the last time the pope had any say in political matters? When was the last Crusade?
 
War

War, like some other things, once started, takes on a life of it's own. At it's own pace. A short study of history will show that no war ever went exactly as planned, or on schedule.

The argument today stems from differences of opinion on what constitutes "success", and when it occurs. Have the people making the decisions about what, where, and when we do things made errors? Certainly. And everytime something happens differently than we are told it will, the other sides cries "failure!".

Because the major media decides on what to report, and how often, it clearly appears that they have an agenda of their own, (besides just making a profit). In the past, the media has shown it's ability to push public opinion toward war (the Spanish American war), away from war (Vietnam), or move from one side to the other at will (WWI & WWII).

The Bush administration was up front about one thing, that the "war on terror" would not be like any war we have fought before. Congress gave them the go ahead. it may have been a knee jerk reaction to the 9/11 attacks, but they gave their ok. Ok to go into Afganhistan, then later, OK to go into Iraq.

Now, the armchair generals in politics and the media aren't happy, because we aren't done yet. So they tell us, at every turn, that what is being done is "wrong", that we are "losing", etc.

They claim that they were "lied to", and by their standards, they were. Just as by their standards we are "losing". The argument comes in comparing their standards to objective reality.

Do Democrats want us to fail in Iraq? Some apparently do, as they believe that if they are proven "right" about this one thing, then their ideas will be accepted as right about other things. The concept is flawed, but very human.
 
Okay, first off that whole 'foreign fighter' thing is simply not true.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html

According to the CSIS foreign nationals comprise 4-10% of the Iraq insurgency. The real fight is coming from the Iraqi people themselves.

But moving on to the main points,
killing Iraqis is not the mission, so measuring it buy such is not adequate.
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Exactly. And equating killing Iraqis with fighting terrorists is just as invalid. In fact, it's counterproductive. Every collateral civillian we take out drives more of the people to support the enemy.
I'll also throw in that all the loose talk about "kill them all and let God sort them out" (not from you, but others around here) does nothing to help us but directly aids the enemy.


The mission is to defeat terrorism.
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Followed 2 sentences later by:
You can never defeat terrorism.
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Both of which I agree with. You see the problem? This is a mission that, by definition, cannot be accomplished. Hardly supportive of the troops to put them into an impossible position, right? Even just 'containing' terrorism by this method is impossible (2 terrorist cells broken up in North America this last month) and implies a never-ending mission with no real objectives.


The mission in Iraq is no longer to defeat terrorism, but to build a stable Democracy to replace the stable dictatorship we destroyed. There is a Democracy in place in Iraq, but it's anything but stable. There's no infrastructure, the vast majority of Iraqis polled not only want us out, they think armed insurrection against coalition forces is justified. And that's exactly what they're doing.
The neighboring countries don't want Iraq to survive in it's present form, so they're funding and supporting the insurgency in hopes of expanding their influence and curtailing the influence of their rivals.
What's going to happen when we drop the mess into the Iraqis hands and call the mission accomplished (just in time for the '08 elections)?
Remember what happened to Vietnam?

By bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan we hope to acceive a "domino effect" similar to Vietnam, only with a positive influence.
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Yep. It was called "The New American Century" and was put together by Bush's entire cabinet just before he picked them to tell him how to run things. They told him just what you're telling me.
As we can all see now, the plan was a dismal failure. Here's why: Democracies are inherently unstable and thus cannot be forced upon people who don't want it at gunpoint. Democracy requires hard work to maintain and is not the 'natural' order of things. There is no such thing as a Democracy domino effect.
They were hopelessly naive about the geopolitical tensions of the region. They honestly thought there wasn't going to be an insurgency!

So here we are....The Republicans are absolutely right, we can't just cut and run, but we can't keep doing the same old thing and expect different results either.
 
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