Man runs out of gun store with two pistols..

Doesn't this (the theft) elevate this to a federal crime since gun shops have to be licensed by the feds?

And they have the serials and all needed information on file so they couldn't pawn it off.

I think on this one, I would have just been a good witness (and I hate running :D ).

Wayne
 
I wasn't there and won't judge one way or the other. If any newspaper in South Florida would take a liberal or anti-gun stance, it would be the Palm Beach Post. There's a lot of concrete around delray shooting center. It's possible there was a safe backstop behind the bad guy. And the distances could have been exaggerated. I think it could be a forcible felony and therefore justifiable. I hope they have a camera and catch this guy. I agree that these guns probably won't be used in a responsible manner (understatement).

Still, I wouldn't have done it. Sounds like bad judgement to me. But, like I said, I wasn't there.
 
Only thing bad about this was that he missed

Firing at a bg 10 or 15 yards away who is actively threatening you is one thing.... chasing a bg who was already running from you and then firing at him (a moving target) at 75 yards away in an open, public place is just downright irresponsible... it's people like that that give the safe, responsible gun-owning community a bad rep.
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Let me clarify a few things. I have been in the newspaper 6 times via my business, and in each and every one of those articles I have been misquoted and information always seemed to be clipped together to develop a certain theme or message so I can tell you all that what you read in the papers cannot be taken as absolute truth and even less so when you see key indicator words like "about" or "at least". For example the shop owner(shooter) could have said the criminal ran and pointed the stolen gun at me and I shot at him in self defense, but he got away in a car parked about 50 to 75 yards away. The city dont take to careless civilian gunfire lightly so the fact that the detectives stated there will probably be no charges goes to show that the shop owner may have acted properly.

As far as the shop owner acting irresponsibly or being negligent, that is all speculation and 20/20 hindsight. In each and every gun shop I have ever been to, the atmosphere has always been low key and cordial and the clerks have always handed me guns with no apprehension or extra precautions. If I was a BG, I could easily ask to see a Glock 17 and produce a 19 round magazine from an IWB holder and do alot of damage, but gunshop owners realize that most gun owners are responsible citizens and thus they dont pat you down and get your finger prints before you enter the shop. I would like to hear from others if their gun shops take extra precautions. The reason is they havent had to as I said most of us are responsible law abiding citizens.

As to the shop owners actions, being a business owner myself, I would have done the same thing. Those guns that were stolen are my responsibility and as a gun shop owner I have agreed to be responsible and uphold my duty to protect the public and my industry as much as possible and thus I have an FFL and I do all the required paper work and background checks. It is obvious that the criminal that stole the guns were not honest law abiding citizens and more than likely they will use them or sell them to someone who's intent is deadly or unlawful. I would do my best to prevent that from happening. First of all the criminals stole from me, it is only just that I get that back. Second the criminals pointed the gun at me, its only just that I shoot at them before they shoot me. Third the criminals have unlawful intentions with the guns they stole for me, so it is imperative I use everything in my power prevent this from happening. The only thing the shop owner did wrong, was grab the wrong weapon for the scenario. I would have produced my M1 Tactical Shotgun from under the counter loaded which is loaded with 2 rounds of #4 buck and 2 rounds of slugs. I could not allow for my stolen property to be used for a dire deed. The store owner acted courageously in my book.

Best Regards,

WOD
 
Shooting at someone who has just stolen guns and is trying to escape? YOU BET!

Because those guns are almost CERTAINLY destined to be illegally pointed at someone in the near future--otherwise the guy would be stealing something else. The clerk was trying to protect the public. At the VERY least, the criminal is going to be committing other felonies in the process of either using or disposing of the firearms.

It is reasonable to assume that allowing the criminal to escape with stolen firearms is also going to facilitate future violent crime. I'd shoot in a heartbeat.

There was a shooting in a mall in TX some years ago where a man killed the shooter who was leaving the scene of a murder. The shooter had waited for and killed his girlfriend/wife in view of many witnesses. The citizen shot the man as he tried to escape. It was determined that the citizen's actions were reasonable since to him it appeared that the man had simply walked up to a person and shot her for no reason. They determined that the citizen was reasonable to assume that the man was a serious danger to those around him.
 
Rush To Judgment

Not sure why this thread was entered. Reading a newspaper article and then taking everything in it at face value is some irresponsible in the first place. Trying to judge a clerk for the reported actions is somewhat irresponsible; too many missing facts. The idea that if someone commits a crime and runs, anyone chasing them, perhaps to get a vehicle description/plate #, etc., escalates the crime is neither reasonable nor logical. If the idea of the post is to inform readers of legal ramifications of some act they might commit, there are too many states represented to conclude what the law is where the reader lives. If for any reason you use deadly force, the only advise I would offer is, get the names and telephone numbers of any witnesses, do not discuss the incident with anyone except the first police officer on the scene, give the officer the basic facts then say "I did not want to shoot, but was in fear for my life. Now I want an attorney." Under no circumstances should you talk to a reporter. If you are going to carry a weapon, you should have already decided on a competent law firm.
John
Charlotte, NC
 
WOD wrote"


...As to the shop owners actions, being a business owner myself, I would have done the same thing. Those guns that were stolen are my responsibility and as a gun shop owner I have agreed to be responsible and uphold my duty to protect the public ....
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JohnKSa wrote

... Shooting at someone who has just stolen guns and is trying to escape? YOU BET! ....
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I can understand the anger and justification being used to blast the perpetrator in this scenario ... a BG in need of some strong disipline. However, I think the reality of society is a bigger issue. As I understand it, if you have time to load a gun, you have time to run away ... if you ran away from a gun fight, and now find you have time to load a gun, you have time to run further away. The idea being that a gun is used only, and I mean ONLY, if a life is endanger (other than the perpetrators). Whether, or not, one agrees with this is not important. It is what is taught in legal carry ... at least in the material I've been reading in Kaillifornia. If folks are going to rationalize that the guns being stolen might be used in a crime, as justification for a shooting, then guns ought not be sold anywhere, as any gun bought might be used in a criminal manner (please don't start sounding like the anti-gun crowd). No matter how angry, frustrated, pissed off, or upset I am, I have no right to run around in a public place, such as a parking lot, with a loaded gun, let alone discharge it (In another thread I recall reading where a child sleeping in the back seat of a car in a parking lot was hit by a bullet in such a scenario). So no, I do not think the shop owner was justified in chasing and shooting at the BG ... it strikes me as a big mistake, compounded.

This is just my 2 cents, but I hope no action is taken against the shop owner.
 
Ok, aside from the fact that TX law allows one to fire on a person escaping with property if that is the only reasonable means to retrieve the property, let's look at this.
any gun bought might be used in a criminal manner
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Might is the operative word, and most of the studies I've seen indicate that, contrary to what the anti-gun crowd says, the "might" isn't a very large probability.

In fact, most studies indicate that the largest percentage of firearms used in crime are stolen or otherwise illegally obtained--which gets us back to my original statement. A STOLEN gun is almost certainly GOING to be used for criminal purposes. It seems quite safe to say that a person stealing guns doesn't have any legal shooting activities on his mind.
the anger and justification being used to blast the perpetrator in this scenario
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Speaking purely for myself, that doesn't play a part. The major concern is trying to keep firearms out of criminal hands. This is NOT the same as regulating legal sales in an attempt to reduce the CHANCES of firearms getting into criminal hands, this is a DIRECT action taken to prevent a SINGLE instance of a criminal illegally taking possession of firearms.
 
Old Shooter
Yes - in competitive shooting. NOT when you are running to chase someone on a public street with your adrenelin level pumping away. That's irresponsible and dangerous.
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Taking a running pistol shot at 75 yards is not normally practiced even in any competition that I know of. I was speaking of a general engagement.

If someone is shooting at me - even at 100 yards - and all I have is a pistol, I might well shoot back. That is not unreasonable, and with the same considerations one takes shooting at any distance, it is not in and of itself dangerous.
 
We are not the criminals

Firing at a bg 10 or 15 yards away who is actively threatening you is one thing.... chasing a bg who was already running from you and then firing at him (a moving target) at 75 yards away in an open, public place is just downright irresponsible... it's people like that that give the safe, responsible gun-owning community a bad rep
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I think it has always been the bad guys that give law abiding citizens a bad rap whether it concerns guns, hunting, boating, etc...so lets not place blame on the clerk or storeowner who is trying to earn an honest living.

The only one that deserves this quote..."it's people like that that give the safe, responsible gun-owning community a bad rep" ... is the criminal who commited the theft. It is the two thieves here that will use this gun to commit a crime and give the anti-gunners more ammo as to why guns are so deadly to have in America.

Best Regards,

WOD
 
Lots of good replies

This should have been a non-event. When you go to a jewelry store, they don't leave all the diamond rings on the counter while they go answer the phone. The clerk stays with the customer and the merchandise. The gun shop I go to won't even buzz you in until they see who you are, and they give 100% attention while you handle the merchandise. The range in the story isn't my favorite place to go shoot, and I won't slam the place because some of the clerks are good guys, but there are others there that definately could use some training with their people skills. I hope they learn from this.
 
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