Man faces jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

J

JasonWilliam

Moderator
copwithgun.jpg


Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg

Then watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izegE5fF7pA

There are two issues here. The obvious which is catching national attention and is covered in that second video.

But there's another issue; a theoretical...I think that cop is lucky he's not dead and/or was not involved in a shootout. Assuming I lived in a state that allowed it, I'd be conceal carrying. If someone jumped out of their car, toting a gun, failing to ID themselves, moving toward me in an aggressive manner...

Thoughts?
 
Thoughts?
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I think there might be more to think about if the audio track was included when the motorcyclist suddenly turned to look at the car coming up behind him at 3:01 in the tape.
 
DashCam?

Sooo, only the proper authorities are allowed to have DashCams?:mad:

What is good for one is good for all and this just proves the point. The full record may show the biker doing stupid stuff and also shows a patrolman out of control with his power?
 
But there's another issue; a theoretical...I think that cop is lucky he's not dead and/or was not involved in a shootout. Assuming I lived in a state that allowed it, I'd be conceal carrying. If someone jumped out of their car, toting a gun, failing to ID themselves, moving toward me in an aggressive manner...

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

You would have been shot long before you cleared leather.
 
Did the cop have a right to draw his gun?

What about displaying a badge?

And recording such an event should not be in any way criminal.
 
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I've always been on the cop's side in this argument. Motor vehicles can be, and are used, as deadly weapons just the same as a gun. I feel that the lack of a showing badge does make it a bit grey, but, the motorcyclist could have just as easily run into the man when he stepped out to stop the negligent motorist. I also feel that the cyclist should not be in trouble for recording, as it seems that recording and internet use should fall under the first amendment, but... I guess their should also be some kind of barriers for certain activities.

Yeah, this... is a tough one, but, I'm very interested in how the whole thing works out.
 
As a general proposition, the police seem to be too willing to claim that their actions can't be videoed, recorded, or photographed when those media capture and portray police actions in a negative fashion.
 
The Officer is as wrong as two left feet in my opinion.

First of all what had the biker done to justify the use of deadly physical force? Why did the officer hold him at gunpoint? If the Biker refused to stop and rode away ... would the Officer have shot him?

Secondly Why didnt the Officer identify himself... Other than muttering "state police". The officer displayed no shield, or ID card, and he wasnt in uniform. The vehical he was driving didnt appear to be an official vehical, nor did it appear to have flashing lights, or a siren.

This could have turned out to be a tragedy. If the Officer had used deadly force, or if the civilian had used deadly force. Or if the Biker had been another cop from a different jurisdiction.

Was it prudent for the officer to be personally involved while off duty, and ill equiped to handle a traffic stop? Was it good judgment on the Officers behalf to endanger all the innocent civilians around them? Is it possible that a traffic accident could have happened as a result of the Officers actions?

99 9/10ths of the time I will see things from the officers point of view, and defend him/her. This Time the Officer was wrong... Just luckely not dead wrong. IMO it looked more like a "JACK" than it did a police vehical stop.
 
Wow, wow! Rambo there is bloody wrong. Why does he feel he has to pull out his gun? :eek: Seems to me he went into full escalation mode, maybe feeling a little disrepected? I support LEO, but some of them need to not take every stupid thing people do so damn personal. It isn't about him, he just is not that important to the perp. :D
Need a sense of humor. He was not intending to hurt himself, cop or anyone else, just being stupid as you see many bikers do. Now cop needs to take a chill pill issue the guy a ticket if cop feels the need to, go home in peace, nobody gets hurt and everyone is happy except the guy getting the ticket. Pulling out the gun? :barf::barf:
What do they mean he can't tape it? His camera was already rolling. Anything going on on a PUBLIC roadway is fair game on camera. I suspect the LEO just upset he got caught completely out of line there with his Rambo antics.
 
Sarge's Dirty Dozen

1. If you drive like an idiot you invite the police to detain you.
2. Expect that detention to be on their terms- not yours.
3. Officer should have identified himself earlier in the contact.
4. He was not even good & mad, much less 'out of control'.
5. The cyclist appears to be backing away for unknown reasons.
6. Don't know that I would have pulled a gun at that point, but I won't Monday morning QB the cop for doing it. He did stay at low ready and reholster at the earliest opportunity.
7. There is no expectation of privacy for either party, during a LE contact such as this.
8. It should never be illegal for the public to film the police in a public setting.
9. If I found a recording device I would have seized it, obtained a search warrant and reviewed it to see why the high-speed driving. Robbery, etc?
10. Counseling on 'proper ID' for the officer, note in personnel file.
11. Tickets for Evel Kenevel wannabe. Lots.
12. This stuff wears me out. I need a donut & some coffee.
 
Sarge I mostly agree with most of the points except
5. The cyclist appears to be backing away for unknown reasons.
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First of all, backing off is a natural reaction to threat of deadly force. A lot of folks would run in fact. The cop is not in uniform! Trust me if I was this guy I'd be thinking mad motorist taking law into his own hands and would be fear too. After seeing this, even after the cop identifies himself I'd still be fear for my life. Ever heard of cops not in uniform shooting unarmed guys who are not fighting them to the tune of 40-50 times in NYC? No wonder people don't trust the cops. Excessive unjustified force is a real issue. If this guy was off duty, he should not even have the right to effect a traffic stop as this can have very bad results. If the cops ran around like this guy, how does the public distinguish them from robbers for example? In the heat of the moment you will not even hear the "state police" because what you see conflicts with what he is saying.

I think cop only has the right to act like he did if the perp is fighting or threatening to. Backing off is more like flight.
 
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...or gaining space to get a run at you.

There is no use of force policy or caselaw, of which I am aware, that requires an officer to be fought or threatened before obtaining his or her firearm. These things are fluid and split seconds decide life or death.

If you flee or give the appearance of flight, expect a roadside gunshow when they get you stopped. Nobody knows why you're fleeing and nobody's taking chances until it's sorted out. This is pretty much covered by #2 above.
 
Sarge heads up he backed away because he was sitting up. on a crotch-rocket you lean onto the tank so when you sit up you have to reposition in your seat thus backing up. Also I think the cop over reacted. Putting your hand on your gun is one thing but drawing it for a traffic stop?
 
So, lets see any time anyone says "I am police" one should imediatly comply with any request. Here in Indianapolis there was a fellow who had lights on his car and a badge that was pulling women over They complied I forget if he was robing or attempting rape but I don't think he was caught. The local news reported that it was recomended to remain in ones car untill uniformed officers arrived. when one was pulled over by plain cloths in unmarked cars or to proceed slowly to a well lit area or nearest police station. Never have heard if anyone tried that though. Likely a charge of trying to escape would be your reward for caution. We all know badges are only carried by the authorities and are not available to the general public in any way. And it is illegal for anyone to impersonate a policeman so all badges are real and anyone who says "STOP POLICE" is realy who they say they are.:rolleyes:
 
At 33 seconds into the video, the guy begins a wheelie, just before passing a bus-sized RV, standing down after he passes it. At 39 seconds, he's sped up to 127 MPH. At 1:07, we see the cop. At 2:26, the guy passes the unmarked car doing 80+ MPH. At 3:02, he looks back and the unmarked car is right behind him. At 3:13, the bike is completely stopped. At 3:15, the unmarked car pulls ahead and to the side of him. The driver door opens and a guy gets out (3:16). The motorcyclist appears to be backing away (on the bike)... This is when the officer draws his firearm (3:17) and orders the biker to get off the bike. At 3:18, the officer has completed his draw and is at low carry (while the bike is still backing up). At 3:19 - 3:21, the cop moves quickly up to the bike, grabbing the faring with his left hand, preventing the bike from moving further to the rear. The officer orders him off the bike a second time, then quickly a third time and identifies himself at this point. At 3:23, with the biker off the bike, the officer begins to holster his firearm. At 3:26, holstering is complete. At 3:36, we see the uniformed officer.

I see nothing wrong in what the officer did, other then possibly drawing to prevent the escape of a (dangerous and stupid) guy. Was it called for? I'm not going to second guess this one.
 
I think the cop acted within reason, all things considered, but I *really* think that all the BS wiretapping charges against the rider need to be dropped.
 
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