Man Eaters of Tsavo: What gun for Simba defense?

G

Glamdring

New member
Perhaps I have been reading to much Capstick and related books this holiday. But I got to wondering what I would want with me if I was in Africa. Not for real hunting but just in case and maybe some plinking and feeding the camp.

I will note that Col. Patterson used a 303!

I would have my 4" S&W 629 with me 24/7 over there loaded with Castcore instead of the 44 spec. that are in it now.

I would get some of federal's HE 180 grain nosler partitions for my Steyr Scout. though I wish I had a 338 or 416 though that would make me feel much better than the 308.
 
For pure defense against lions I would want a 12 ga with extended mag loaded with 2 slugs and the rest 00 buck (the slugs fired first). The theory would be to break bones etc. with the slugs and if that didn't stop him put the rest in his face as fast as I could.

Mikey
 
Excellent reading on this subject can be had by reading any of the books authored by John "Pondro" Taylor.

If it were me, 416 rigby,[Holland double rifle] 505 Gibbs, [in a set of Mausers], 375 H&H mag [Winchester model 70 or Ruger m-77] or 378 Weatherby [mark V] using soft nose type projectiles for big cats. Solids would be in order for buff & elephant.

Pondro hunted man eating lions and leopards in what was then Eqatorial East Africa, along with cape buff and elephants. He authored a book catridges of Africa detailing the rounds used for taking differing game.

There are many books dealing with this subject, Jim Corbetts books on hunting man eating tigers in India are very interesting also. There are others, Eric Rundgren. Bell, that spin tales that will curl you hair!!!

The use of a shotgun would proably due for leopard, [with buckshot] but would be inaduaquate for lion.
 
I think you have to define the problem here a little better. There where several catagories of persons involved and their situations were not the same.
The problem with the Tsavo Maneaters was that they attacked crews of workmen on the railroad the Brits were trying to build though this area. Most of the victims were East Indian railroad workers. Being British subjects, not free citizens, they were forbidden to have firearms, because, of course, every body knew that in their hearts they were disloyal to their Queen. I believe that the Brits did little or nothing about the problem until these workers where so terrorized and near mutiny that it threatened to shut down the railroad construction.
So, one question is what would you do if you were one of these unfortunates that was stuck out in the middle of a wilderness, needed the work if only to get back to the more familiar man eating tigers of home and had to work and protect yourself with out a firearm?
Other victims were Brits who could own a gun of their choice, but they where not specifically out to hunt down the lions and had other jobs to do.
So what would you carry if you where just passing through and felt the actual risk was very, very low and had other important tasks to get done?
Finally, there where the ones who actually tried to hunt down the beasts.
So what would you carry if you where there specifically to engage these lions face to face?

[This message has been edited by Herodotus (edited May 27, 2000).]
 
Okay Col. J H Patterson Author of the book MAn Eaters of Tsavo (which is the story that the movie The Ghost and The Darkness is based on) used a 303 to deal with those two lions. Who killed 28 men according to Patterson in his book.

I just was pondering what I would want with me and what other might want for non hunting travel thru Africa if you were going to be out in the bush working like Patterson was.

I would like a 338 to go with my 44 mag. But the 308/180 noslers would suffices I suppose if the old cordite load with the 303 did back around the turn of the century.
 
.470 Nitro Express. It's the caliber of choice for Africa if you're using a double (which I would be doing). Some day, A .470 NE double will be mine.
 
Glamdring, in your scenario, of just traveling through Africa and working, but not necessarily hunting, a Marlin Co-Pilot by Wild West guns or a factory Marlin Guide Gun would probably do. Just make sure you've got both soft-nose and sold ammo.

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
Whatever you chose, make sure it is your own rifle with which you are completely familiar and competent. As Patterson found out, a life and death situation is no time to fumble around with a borrowed gun.
bergie
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glamdring:
in Rhodesia the minimum 'legal' caliber for hunting dangerous game is .375H&H.
~Erick

I just was pondering what I would want with me and what other might want for NON hunting travel thru Africa if you were going to be out in the bush working like Patterson was.
~Glamdring
.[/quote]
 
Erik,

Rhodesia hasn't been around since the early '80s. Nice to hear Zimbabwe called that though. Especially without anyone calling you a racist in rebuttal. Does that sentiment exist there amongst the white Africans?

[This message has been edited by p l i n k e r (edited May 28, 2000).]
 
Just a comment on John "Pondero" Taylors remarks on lion hunting. The one that always stuck with was this, "Every time I was out hunting lions, I was armed with a single loader." Wow!Taking on lions with a single shot rifle take some guts IMO.
I'm sure that most of the time, he was able to pick and choose his situation, but????
Paul B.
 
I'd take my 1895G (.45-70 lever) with Garrett rounds if I were looking for the cats. If I just wanted defense while traveling, I'd take a 12 gauge- probably 18" bl Mossberg 500.
 
And yet another vote for a lever action .45-70. Co-Pilot if you have the dough, or the Marlin 1895G if you are more fiscally responsible. ;)
 
Three votes in a row for the .45-70 Co-Pilot.

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"Carry" on

Rick

I prefer armed combat to unarmed combat. It's easier on the knuckles.
 
Hmmm... for pure defense?? A would imagine that a flamethrower would do nicely.. *imagines flaming giant cat*
Wait, on second thought what would I do when the brushfires start?? :-)


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Big Guns again
No speakee well
But plain.
--H.C
 
It's an easy answer, to take care of the nasties at close range I'd choose a .500 Nitro double(H&H of course). If you needed to feed the camp buff shouldn't be a problem and it's a quite impressive plinker :D.
 
I would take a handy little double rifle chambered for the 450/400 Nitro Express, with no 'scope and a pair of roundnose softpoints, plenty of lead showing, up the spouts if I was just strolling thru the bush and were concerned about becoming a he-man version of Meow-Mix.

Instead, if I were lion hunting, it depends. If I were waiting for baited lion I would carry a .416 Rigby Mauser with a low-powered scope (Taylor thought the 416 well-nigh perfect for large cats)...... On a stalk, I wouldn't be caught dead without a nice double (.400 thru .470)..... Just read some statistics about how many yearly maulings plague the Safari industry, and Simba is indeed accountable for many young widows on either side of the Ocean.
 
When I read the title, I really had trouble coming up with any answer much different than Spectre's (above.)

Another vote for West's Co-Pilot, and the Garrett sledge hammers.


We are, of course talking about Simba defense! Different that what you might take for HUNTING them. For defense, one tends to go for something a little handier, as it's ALWAYS with you.
 
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