Man arrested after firing warning shot at burglar in N.H.

No, he was not. He had no knowledge of anybody being in danger at the time he fired. You can't claim his action is justified as self defense if nobody was known to be endangered at the time.
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It is Possible someone was in danger. Period.

So you are advocating pre-emptive shooting based on the possibility that the burglar might hurt somebody in the future? This is not a valid legal argument.
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No. I am sorry you read it that way by accident.


Not relevant. Being a tactical expert or not isn't a valid basis to justify his shooting.
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I never said it was. I bet it was a factor considered when charges were dropped(not ignored but dropped), and I agree it should come into play.

By your own admission, he didn't know what he was doing. By his admission, he didn't know what laws applied to this situation. Being wrongfully proactive doesn't make his actions okay.
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I never said he didn't know what he was doing. He doesn't have law enforcement background. He is not experienced and trained for these adrenalized situations. The man has never had any trouble in the past. His house right where they were had been invaded by this person(it came to light). The perp was exiting the home and coming to the exact vicinity of him. Who knows who was dead or tied up in home. Who knows who was w/the BadGuy. His actions were non-malicious in nature. Him not knowing the law isn't an excuse, but it would be worse if he ignored the law & did what he did anyways.
 
He had the right to go looking on his property. He had the guts to do so, and his sacrifice possibly saved a life(at least another break-in probably). I have to give him credit for this. I for one wouldn't be a looker, but in this case it sort of fits. He decided to do something. As in my first post: "I can't knock him for that."
 
Today, 07:46 AM #37
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member

Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 8,560
Quote:
Actually, I believe he did not do good at all. I don't believe he understood the current state of gun laws whether we like them or not, they are what they are.
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Have your digitalis ready, A444, you and I are in agreement.
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Shucks, had to happen some day.:D:D
 
Public pressure. I don't disagree at all with the charges being dropped, but this is not in any sense something to emulate. Glad to hear he is off the hook.
 
Glad the charges were dropped but he was very lucky. His actions were downright stupid.

He claims he needed to fire the warning shot to be taken seriously and would have been at a significant disparity of force should things become physical.

One major problem is he CHOSE to place himself in this situation. Did he really think the criminal he grabbed his gun and went hunting the streets for (his own admission) was going to be another grandfather with a heart condition, bad joints and back problems? When you actively take part in the escalation of the situation you bear some responsibility. If you elect to lead your home after the burglary to hunt down the criminal be prepared to be treated as one yourself, or even shot by the responding officers.
 
Musketeer,

I can't even say I wouldn't shoot the gun in the ground. I can care less if they bring this thread to court if it happened. I'll choose my life and worry about the rest later. these druggies die this way w/cops all of the time. It isn't always suicide by cop. they are drugged out(not to mentioned scared, adrenalized, stupid, and so-on). They'll stand there with two to three guns on them and decide whether to have one of their "moments" with their knife, fist, stares, etc. When they decide to pounce, they die. This guy might not have gone so easily without the gun shot. Not talking about you, but it is always easier in hindsight.

That statement might be a little strong, so everyone go ahead and quote it. I am just saying it is real easy to say what you are going to do: "Let's see, i remember being on TFL." Drawing was the right thing to do but NOT shooting in the ground. That said, he might have saved the perp's life. This was a life threatening situation.
 
It is Possible someone was in danger. Period.
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I am sorry, but I may not be up on the law as much as you. When did the laws change that made it okay to use lethal force because of a possibility that somebody's life about which you have no knowledge was in danger?

He had no knowledge of anyone's life being in danger.

The perp was exiting the home and coming to the exact vicinity of him.
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Where do you get "climbing out a window" to translate to coming to the exact (exact? really?) vicinity of the shooter?

Who knows who was dead or tied up in home. Who knows who was w/the BadGuy.
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So you are still advocatng pre-emptive discharge of a firearm. So whatever could be conjured up in one's mind is sufficient justification for shooting?

Well, it is good that he shot into the ground and held the burglar at gunpoint until the officers arrived so that whomever might have been bleeding to death in the house would have a chance to fully bleed out or the tied up person strangle to death in the ropes instead of the hero trying to help all those people that he was protecting because they might have been in danger. Sorry, but your justifications are conflicting.
 
Youngunz4life, the guy wasn't on his property, he wasn't casually walking down the street and observing a burglar coming out of his neighbor's window.

This man actively armed himself and went searching the streets for a criminal. He did so knowing full well this could escalate to a lethal force situation. Then when confronting said criminal he behaved irresponsibly by firing his gun when unwarranted.

Sorry, this guy has watched too many movies and understands nothing regarding the situation he put himself in. He is no hero, he is a well meaning idiot who is lucky his actions did not ruin his life.
 
Awesome, this state that does not require auto insurance, has the motto live free or die, will be this uptight over this situation... ugh
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New Hampshire of today is a very different place than it was 20 years ago. The state has become a bedroom community for Boston and Massachusetts. Most of the population is in the south and heavily influence by the Massachusetts mentality. Vermont, right next door, is a different story...

That said, I have a hard time arguing his case. If I find my property has been burgled, I call 911. I may arm myself or keep myself armed as I secure my house, but I will sit tight until the cops show up.

Discharging weapons in almost every city in this nation is against the law.
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Most of the country is not a "city" however, and based on his location, it is more than likely there is no explicit prohibition against discharging firearms. In most New England states, it is usually limited to "compact areas". Farmington has a small village but most of the town is rural. I suspect that part of the reason the charges were dropped is that they could not even get him on discharging his weapon....
 
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As promised...

I finally heard from my Legislator friend over there, and he gave me permission to post this reply to me:

This was his only comment on the topic of this thread:

Interesting story about Mr. Fleming over there in Farmington. I had to
laugh when they used the phrase "city limits". I guess they must have a
different definition of city than I do. I'm familiar with the road he lives
on. You live in the city compared to him.
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More interesting to me was this anecdote:

Les said:
Salmoneye said:
Always thought NH was almost as gun friendly as VT
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We're working on it. :!:
You might be interested to know that the guy who sits beside me in the House brought in a Mosin-Nagant rifle to sell me yesterday and we made the transaction right there in the House chamber. :lol: At lunch, we took it into the Majority Leader's office and looked it over. The lady who sits on the other side of me said "What's in the box?" I told her it was a Russian rifle. She didn't seem at all alarmed. And she's a city girl.
The guy who sits two seats over from me packs heat every day and I know there are lots of others who do as well. :o
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Just before coming here, I received an e-Mail from him (which I do not have permission to post yet) in which he states that the NH legislature today is very gun (2A) friendly, unlike pre-2010 election...
 
Just before coming here, I received an e-Mail from him (which I do not have permission to post yet) in which he states that the NH legislature today is very gun (2A) friendly, unlike pre-2010 election...
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That is probably true, but there is a big difference between legislators and prosecutors. I suspect that the prosecutor in this case was probably not an elected official but a career guy and who knows where he originally came from....
 
DNS, again I am not and furthermore would never ok the presumption you have mentioned twice. I am just stating there are always other factors and hindsight is 20/20. He does NOT have the right to fight to 'save future crimes'. that is my point. However, it is Possible someone was laying down dying in that home. If I was getting into the technical legal stuff I would be more literal about it. I just don't have a problem w/him firing that gun in the ground in that situation they encountered together ***in that specific situation & however right or wrong the incident led up to that point*** for whatever reason, it seems multiple people who work in the judicial system in that county agree with me. Common sense can still prevail. Do you think this guy deserved jail time? lose his guns permanently? I don't think he was acting as a "vigilante". he was a concerned grandfather, american citizen, and fellow neighbor. He had the right to have that 38 while being outside. He felt safer with it...he probably wasn't expecting to find much but again armchair quarterbackin really doesn't cut in the courts.
 
A burglar coming out of a window from a break in when at least one other home in the neighborhood had been invaded is a potentially dangerous and deadly situation. Period.
 
A burglar coming out of a window from a break in when at least one other home in the neighborhood had been invaded is a potentially dangerous and deadly situation. Period.
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Crossing the street is a potentially deadly situation. I think the problem for the homeowner here is that while the potential was there for it to be necessary for him to fire his gun, the situation hadn't reached that point when he fired it (based on the news accounts anyway).

Luckily, noone was harmed, he wasn't prosecuted for his mistake, and he now knows better. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons he was charged was because most of the cops realized they would lose their job over something like that and instinctively viewed it as "bad."
 
No one knows how it would've ended if he didn't fire the warning shot

Bartholomew,

I can agree with your post. You live and learn. This Grandfather would probably do it differently if he could go back: one example- he would probably just point the gun and give commands without shooting into the ground. We can't go back, we can only learn from our mistakes. That doesn't mean one should be prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law. Sometimes it does, but not in this case. Common sense is sort of like a superpower.
 
"However, it is Possible someone was laying down dying in that home. "

It is also possible someone was in the house inventing faster than light travel. What's your point other than a huge what if and no evidence of someone needing rescuing? You can't just make stuff up.

As far as pointing a gun at the guy after landed in the neighbor's yard; pointing a gun at another person is assault in a lot of jurisdictions. Assault simply means you threaten to harm someone. It could be waving a bat or waving your fist. You don't need to actually touch them.

John
 
I neverhave said any of these whatifs really make a dent either way But they do exist

wow judge much?

I thought I mentioned/explained that in my posts. You quoted one, tiny excerpt.

One relevant point was this man decided to put a stop to this friggin clown.
 
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