Magazines and Clips

Spark nailed it right on the head! This issue is so insignificant and pointless. The only reason I made the post was the fact that I was astonished at how many people would actually judge a person on such a trite and miniscule thing as this. If we addressed other real problems(such as the compromising of the second amendment) with half the passion and zeal as some do the "clip" issue, I think we would be much better of as a country.
 
I'm with Spark. I'm much more annoyed by someone who is nit-picky and self-righteous about it than I am about someone who uses the wrong term.

Now... Which one of you dopes called the slide stop on a Glock a "Slide Release" ??!! ;)
 
On the contrary, it matters very much what you call it because the name can make the difference between something becoming right or wrong, legal or illegal. For example, take the term "assault weapon." Gunowners in the U.S. took a serious hit when the U.S. government decreed certain semi-automatic rifles to be "assault weapons." As everyone who reads this board knows, the term applies to a special group of automatic rifles chambered for an medium-range cartridge, not merely look-alikes or rifles with a flash hider or folding stock. Yet the term was used to villify not only the gun but gunowners as well, and we are less free for it. No matter how much we (as educated gunowners) demanded the correct term be used, we could not overcome the shrill denunciations of anti-gunners. As a result, more misinformation was spread through the land as our civil rights suffered. What you call it can have a profound impact given certain political imperatives. Language use can and does have serious consquences, as I know all too well.
 
At the risk of being labeled a purist, I'll weigh in here. I prefer that words mean what they were intended to mean...I am against the trend to allow misused terminology to become acceptable language.

Check the word "preventative" in your dictionary...it's there. Back when I was studying Public Health, this was a term used by those who didn't understand *preventive* health. It still urks me and, thus, I can sympathize with those who long for the days when a clip was a clip and a mag a mag.
Rich
 
Who decided what "Assault Weapon" referred to? I would consider any weapon capable of being used in an assault an Assualt Weapon.

Furthermore, an "Assault Rifle" would be any rifle capable of being used in an assault.

We have all agreed that "Small Arms of The World" is the definitive text on military firearms, yet they make no reference to "Assault Weapons" or "Assault Rifles"

In each country section the weapons currently in service are categorized as follows:
Handguns
Submachine Guns (where applicable)
Rifles
Machine Guns

In the detailed descriptions, Sub-Categories include:
Rifles
Automatic Rifles
Pistols
Revolvers
Machine Pistols
Machine guns
Carbines
Submachine gun
handgun
grenade launcher
"Special Purpose Weapons"
Light Automatic Rifles
Self-Loading Rifle

All of which I submit could be "Assault
Weapons".

The term "Assault Rifle" is used in the proper name of certain weapons, such as:
FNC Assualt Rifle
Type 56-1 Assault Rifle
M62 Assault Rifle
....and others, but does not seem to denote a class of weapons by themselves.

Furthermore, The Blue Book, The Shooter's Bibile, The Gun Traders Guide, FM 7-70, SGN and the classic How to Make War also seem to have overlooked this distinct class of firearm.

(btw- this is for you guys who want to be nit-picky.. the rest of you, please understand my purpose.) ;)

------------------
-Essayons
 
If you really want to get nit-picky, a magazine is a room, bunker or storage facility for powder, ammunition or explosives. What you are discussing are detachable box magazines for small arms.
Come on, we're talking about a common word usage. Is it really that important?
 
Oboy! This is more fun than the "movie" thread! :D

Spoonslayer,
Gay meant gay (rather than "gay" ;) ) in my parts even FORTY years ago. And gay "you know what I mean" was something to be kept to yourself rather than being taught in public schools as "an alternative lifestyle".

Trevor,
A lot of folks like "to party". What I can't stand is ending a sentence with a preposition. That is something up with which I shall not put! :)

Rob,
It really IS a slide release! When I poked it out of my 1911 (from the right to the left) the slide released and fell on my foot!

Rich,
Yes, sir. I dutifully checked my dictionary as directed. I have a "Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary". It's old. Webster is probably on his twelfth "new" dictionary by now.
But, it lists "preventative" as: "...adj or n (ca. 1654): PREVENTIVE". Poor "preventive" is only an adjective. (sigh) The decay of our culture???

More seriously, I realize some folks are serious about proper terminology, er, nomenclature. Therefore, especially when I am teaching, I try to use the less argumentative terms. Can't argue about "magazine" as some folks will argue with "clip". But if a student uses "clip", I don't "correct" him/her. I want them to be careful, proficient, and enjoy all aspects of "the firearms experience".

Hmmm, that might be a good thing for us, too. :)

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited March 05, 1999).]
 
Phil Degraves,

For the record, I am not "getting mad" at anyone(though maybe I should be :)). I am simply defending myself from people such as Trevor who say that that I have a "...weak mind and low morals" simply because of something as insignificant as a terminology discrepancy.

If a person who uses improper terminology is weak minded and immoral, then our beloved Second Amendment is doomed because just about every gun owner I have ever talked to is "weak minded and immoral" under this criteria. If us gun owners are therefore a weak minded and immoral group, Then we dont stand a chance agianst the anti's, do we ;)?

Anyway, Id like to let all you guys know that I wont be back on the forum for about a week, so you should all be glad you wont have to put up with me for a while :). Next week is spring break for MSU(Thank God!!!) and Ill be fishing at Reelfoot lake, so I wont have access to a computer. Just thought you might want to know so you wont think im ignoring y'all or anything.

Brock
 
I don't know about you guys, but I've always "corrected" my TV out loud when I heard the race car driver that had just won the race refer to his engine as a motor!...
 
well, i've stayed out of this as long as i could. if you know what someone is talking about, what difference does it make what name they call what ever it is you're talking about? hell this ain't no test & it ain't the army! it seems a little anal retentive to me. but that's just MHO!!!

------------------
fiat justitia

longhaircsa@netscape.net



[This message has been edited by longhair (edited March 08, 1999).]
 
I was going to stay out of this. It is our responcibility to be as correct as possible when ever speaking of firearms and their respected parts. We are the people that others learn from. When I discuss this in the classes I teach, I often point this out to my students as to why we have a problem with some of our elected officials.
Example: You elect your local rep into office and expect him/her to make decisions that have an effect on your life. Then you stop. You let others educate him/her on topics of importance. Guns being the obvious, It is then of great importance to use correct terms or hell they will ban barrels next. Be a teacher, You owe it to yourself to be correct.
 
Slang such as "heater" is one thing. Acceptance of the misuse of defined terms, however, can have disastrous consequences.

For instance, a public official who uses the word "niggardly" in proper context, might have his carer destroyed because a significant subgroup of the general population chooses to define it in a manner that has nothing to do with it's root or literal meaning.

Likewise, as heard on CNN this AM, Crayola Crayons might feel the need to change the name of it's "Indian Red" color. Not because Native American Indians protested, but because teachers protested (after years of it's use). Seems this subgroup of educators feel that it's easier to change the name than to explain to their students that Crayola's "Indian Red" is based on an Italian pigment description.

Now, I have no idea how the word "clip" might eventually come back to haunt us...but I sure as hell know that I'm not willing to find out :).

Rich
p.s. In support of those with opposing opinion, In Dick Marcinko's Rogue Warrior, he regularly refers to handgun mags as "clips". Who am I to argue with the pros?!
 
Rich, when your right only one side has to argue. Those who are referred to as pros are exceptional marksmen, and have a lot of knowledge. It not their physical ability that in question, its their communication skills. If they are pros I'd think they should take extra care about wanting to be correct as you and I look to them to learn. We as gun owners can not afford to be wrong. Everytime we are someone out there is going to pounce on us and use our own short commings against us. Why help them. A mis spoken work is much like a bullet, after it has left the barrel there is no bringing it back. Lets not defeat ourselves.
 
My $.02 worth. Words have a specific meaning. Otherwise, communication becomes confused and iffy. Through common misuse, intentional or otherwise, meanings can change over a period of years. After a while, the new meaning becomes the accepted meaning. This is the process when a language is alive and evolving. At this time, the correct, technical definition of a clip is a device that holds cartridges, but does not feed them, i.e., no spring or inherent mechanism to force cartridges out of the clip. A magazine (in the context of a handheld weapon) is a clip with a mechanical device to feed the cartridges. The distinction is blurred by layman or those who choose not to get uptight about it. If you want to be totally accurate without a danger of misunderstanding, use the correct term. If you are writing fiction for the general public, do what you want. I'll bet Marcinko's editor changed magazine to clip because of the dumbing down of the general American populace.

------------------
Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal
weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the
monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
 
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