Magazine failures

boondocker385

New member
On another site I saw a bunch of comments about magazine failures. A couple of questions.
1. How many of you have had magazine failures?
2. How often do you disassemble, clean and replace springs?

I take apart and cleanmy glock mags at least every other range outing and every time when I am dropping them in the dirt. I replace springs annually.
 
Clean glock mags. Wow never done that. just wipe the dust, water, dirt, ice off and reload em.

Depending on how you determine failures, I have had about 10, all 1911 GI mags. that don't like my SWC bullets. So I just buy good mags now.
 
bd,

If you shoot long enough you're going to have mag failures. I divide mag failures into three categories- mag body (including lips), mag follower and springs.

I've had mag spring fatigue with failure to elevate the last round or two resulting in a breach over base malfunction. Simple remedy is to replace springs. This has been is full size 1911 mags and CZ 75 compact mags.

I've had mag lip failures in one aluminum AR GI 20 round mag where every cartridge on the right side of the mag would pop straight up causing a stove-pipe malfunction. Despite a bunch of tweaking I could never get it to feed right so now I just use it as a mold for making leather mag pouches.

I've had a few mag follower feeding problems with some AR mags and changing to PMag followers solved the problems.

best wishes- oldandslow
 
I've had very few mags fail. Not many, but a few. It's a rare event. Most failures were the result of damage like bent feed lips and dented bodies. On extremely rare occasions I've had a magazine bind due to grit or sand. I've had springs fail, particularly on 1911s.

Another rare event is stripping and detail cleaning a mag. This function usually occurs when a malfunction is noted during use.

From a preventive standpoint, any 2nd hand mag I pick up will get stripped, cleaned and lubed before use.

I've got mags in my mag box that have had thousands, maybe 10s of thousands of rounds through them and never been apart and never failed.
 
In shooting 8000 RDS or so of pistol a year I can't remember my last mag failure. Make sure the mags are of good quality and go from there. I keep separate mags for the range and carry so that my carry mags don't get beat up (I do run ammo through them first at the range to be sure they function).
 
I have never had an issue that I was certain was a problem with the magazine. I did have an EAA Witness that's issue may have been the magazine, but I was never sure. As far as cleaning goes, I sometimes disassemble and clean my magazines when I am cleaning the gun they go with but not always and I have yet to replace a spring in one.
 
I replace springs annually.
Why???:confused: Are you shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds annually? Waste of money in my opinion. A new, refurbished magazine can fail just as easily as a new one.
 
I have had about 10, all 1911 GI mags. that don't like my SWC bullets. So I just buy good mags now.
1911 G.I. mags were intended for 230 grain hard-ball ammo. If you shoot SWC bullets, there are "hybrid" and other magazines with lips that accommodate such bullets as well as hard-ball. The G.I. mags did not "fail", you were using the wrong bullets in them.
 
I have had only one "magazine failure", an original .38 Super magazine that developed a crack in the rear of the magazine lip. However, it still seemed to work fine, but I replaced it anyway. It was back in the day (circa 70's) when I did not have a magazine loader so I suspect the crack was likely due to manually forcing rounds into the mag. With a magazine loader, the follower is depressed and therefore, less stress (less flexing), is put on the lips. If I had been using a loader, I do not think it would have happened.
 
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When I notice the mag follower getting overly cruddy I clean the mag. Usually takes several hundred to a thousand rounds.

But I don't disassemble unless the mag was dropped in dirt or otherwise made excessively dirty. I just get a rag and wipe it down, then use a dowel or cleaning rod to push the rag down into the mag body. Making sure it goes in snug down at least half way, this is were the majority of crud accumulates. On occasion I will break down the mag for a good cleaning though.

New mags (or new to me) get taken down for inspection and a wipe down. Pmags are the only ones I don't tend to bother with doing this though, the polymer body doesn't really need any oil to protect it, and the springs have all had a light coat on them from the factory.
 
Dahermit, Surely you know that you don't force .38 Super rounds down through the lips of a magazine? They go in from the front, not top. :eek:

To all those that replace springs prophyllactically. You already have a spring that works fine. There is a great likelihood that you could be replacing a perfectly fine spring with a defective one. Think about that.
If it ain't broke.......... :rolleyes:
 
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Mags made with good quality components can degrade in several ways: 1) by being worked a lot -- not a common problem with most mags; or 2) by being stored fully loaded -- generally only a problem with some very compact guns and with some hi-cap mags.

Working a mag spring will degrade it -- but if the spring is fit to the task, the spring will likely outlast the gun. (7-round mags in 1911 and 10-round mags in many full-size guns almost never degrade. And this is why tappet springs in a car engine almost never fail, even though they may be compressed many millions of times over the engine's life: they're designed so that normal function doesn't push the materials to it's functional [elastic] limits.)

Storing mags fully loaded won't be a problem with most guns, UNLESS the gun is small and the designers have tried to force a larger gun's capacity into a smaller space, or the mag spring is used in a very hi-cap mag. Nearly all materials have an elastic limit and using that material in a way that pushes it to it's limits of flexibility will eventually cause the material to break down. If the material is HELD at that limit it will also degrade more quickly than expected, as well -- because a compressed spring is still a working spring, trying to push a column of ammo against the magazine feed lips! This behavior isn't limited to springs: it's true of metal, rubber, wood, plastic, glass, etc.) Leave a gun with the slide locked back (the equivalent of a full-loaded hi-cap mag -- store it that way -- and you might find that the recoil springs dies far more quickly than you expected, too.

Over the past decade as people have looked for smaller and smaller weapons in larger calibers, designers have begun to treat springs as "renewable resources" -- asking them do more work in less space and sometimes doing it with less material. Those springs have to be replaced more frequently. A recoil spring in a sub-compact .45 won't have the same service life as a recoil spring in a full-size .45. The recoil spring in a Rohrbaugh R9, a very small 9mm gun, has a suggested service life of 250 rounds. (It'll probably work beyond that for a good while, but Rohrbaugh sets the limit to assure proper function.)

If you shoot the guns regularly and they function well, you're probably fine. If you feel you must keep the mags loaded, Wolff Springs (in their FAQ section of the website) suggests downloading a round (or two) to reduce the load and increase spring life.
 
I would only clean my Glock mags if I had accidentally dropped them in the mud. Otherwise, I will blow it out once or twice a year with compressed air if it seems to have picked up some dust or grit.
 
boondocker385 said:
On another site I saw a bunch of comments about magazine failures. A couple of questions.
1. How many of you have had magazine failures?
2. How often do you disassemble, clean and replace springs?

I take apart and cleanmy glock mags at least every other range outing and every time when I am dropping them in the dirt. I replace springs annually.

Say what? CLEAN Glock mags? I never...

No, seriously, I've never cleaned a Glock mag or replaced a spring in one. I have two 17-round G-17 mags that are at least 20 years old. Remember when "preban" meant they were made before the 1994 Federal AWB? Yep, that's how old those 2 are. They came to me used during the ban and I can only identify which ones they are by looking at the follower number. Otherwise they look and continue to function just like the post-2004 magazines I have.

It takes a fairly large number of cycles to wear out a magazine spring from what I can tell. Seeing as my G-17 only has about 15000 rounds down the pipe, I think I'm a long way from worrying about wearing out the magazines.

"Dropping them in dirt" may make me tear one down, but it would depend on the dirt. If we're talking normal New England soil, which isn't particularly fine or dusty, I just knock them against my pant leg and continue. Same if they end up in the snow. Luckily I've never dropped one in a mud puddle.
 
I have never had a mag failure, but I do clean my mags once a year for most guns, and clean my spare carry mags a few times a year since they sit in my pants pocket and collect lint.
 
If I am going to leave one loaded (rare), I underload it by at least one cartridge.

I got a surplus one whose lips were helpfully pre-bent for me. The rest have been fine so far.
 
Dahermit, Surely you know that you don't force .38 Super rounds down through the lips of a magazine? They go in from the front, not top.
It was so long ago, I do not remember...I do remember fighting to get it loaded all the way, especially the last couple of rounds. Now, for many years now, I have used a loader.
 
Well, for one thing, there are different types of magazine failures.

Pistol magazines are assemblies. Assemblies can experience wear & tear on their component parts, as well as being subject to unintended damage, unexpected parts failure, etc.

Magazines, being assemblies, can be inspected and maintained, and either repaired or replaced, depending on the nature of the problem encountered.

Heavy training use of magazines ... (dropping them onto hard surfaces, contamination by excessive fouling, dirt, debris or being submerged, etc) ... may require periodic inspection & cleaning, or even replacement (if damage occurs which can't be corrected by simple parts replacement, like when the mag body is damaged).

No surprises, right?

I've experienced and observed (as an instructor & armorer) pistol stoppages and other failures-to-feed caused by magazine problems.

Sometimes it required cleaning of the mags.

Sometimes replacement of a part (spring, follower, butt plate, insert).

Sometimes it required replacement of the mag (body out-of-spec, damaged, etc).

Different gun companies who provide armorer training may differ a little in their recommendations to their LE/gov clients when it comes to recommending periodic mag inspections, servicing and maintenance.

The environmental & operational conditions in which the equipment is used are always going to remain factors to consider, too. Indoor or outdoor, desert, around fresh or ocean water, windy conditions (blowing grit), dramatic temperature fluctuations, etc.

I remember when the SIG instructor said that a pistol isn't clean unless the magazines are also clean.

In my last (4th) Glock armorer recert, it was said that complete magazine disassembly wasn't recommended as a routine cleaning practice, unless necessary, and that excessive disassembly & reassembly might cause unnecessary & accelerated wear on the plastic mag body detents. Not emphasized in that manner in my previous classes. Guess they may have seen something happening among some segment of their LE customer base, maybe? (Armorer warnings and recommendations are often the result of something observed & seen, or reported by users, somewhere.)

One thing they all seem to agree upon is that mags out to be dry, mostly meaning not being contaminated by the users by leaving solvents, CLP's or lubricants inside the assembled mags. It can act as a magnet for fouling, dust, dirt & debris, compromising the intended free movement of the ammo load under normal use.

The "spring replacement" subject often comes up in internet gun forums, but never arrives at any sort of definitive conclusion. Not one that pleases everyone, at any rate. Gun company recommendations can vary a bit, too.

Springs are pretty cheap parts. It's not like each and every one is a carefully hand-crafted bit of equipment, right? I spoke with one spring company who said they may ship some springs in 10K count cartons to gun companies and mag vendors. Think each one is individually tested prior to shipping?

I've seen little used mag springs that have only been left loaded in LE guns, and only subjected to live-fire for quals 1-4 times a year, fail to exert sufficient tension in as little as 3-4 years.

I've seen others keep working in heavily used range mags for years at a time.

I've seen them 'go soft', or take on some weird bend or twist, too.

I've seen mags made for larger pistols start to exhibit signs of weakened springs when used in smaller pistols (faster cycling slides of reduced slide mass), but continue to work, longer, as intended in the larger guns.

I've seen some in the hands of private citizens and LE alike, in guns that are often carried but seldom fired for practice (another topic, for another time), which worked for years, but then one day they just stopped providing enough tension for normal feeding and functioning. Usually on the qual range I was working. Oops. Good thing it usually happens on a range, right? Until it doesn't only happen on a range.

One guy with whom I working on a range one day, who carried a personally owned G22, had his G22 exhibit repeated feeding failures due to obviously weakened mag springs. He told me (when asked) that he'd never replaced (nor had an agency armorer replace) his mag springs in the 10 years he'd been carrying that gun, but that he only shot it maybe once a year for quals at his agency. He also pretty much shrugged and told me that if his springs were weakened, it probably explained why his G22 had repeatedly experienced feeding stoppages when he'd been trying to shoot an attacking pit bull in recent weeks. :rolleyes: Guess what I recommended?

Personally, I don't take mags for granted. I do the basic armorer bench checks for functioning (checking for slide lock running the slide briskly with an empty mag, checking follower lift & function, freedom of appropriate movement & fit when the mag was inserted & released, etc). If a mag hits the ground (especially when dropped on our outdoor sand-covered range), it gets cleaned and inspected.

I prefer to occasionally set aside some mags as dedicated range mags, but then as a firearms instructor I tend to do a lot more shooting than the average cop or private citizen. It lets me run, observe and continually evaluate mags under heavy-use conditions, up to and including adverse and abusive conditions, to see how they work ... without risking compromising any reliability of my regular carry mags.

I still periodically run my carry mags, though, to continue to confirm normal functioning. ;)

If a range mag ever requires replacement (and they have), I'll generally rotate a carry mag over to a range/training mag role, and put a new mag into service for the carry role ... after range confirmation of expected functioning, which usually includes firing 25-50 rounds of whatever carry rounds I'm presently using.

Pistols magazines can be at the very heart of expected optimal feeding & functioning of pistols. When it comes to a dedicated service/carry weapon (not some leisure range sporting/target pistol), I like to err on the conservative side of things.

FWIW, when some folks (both cops and private citizens) complain about thinking of having to drop the pistol mags onto the ground in a real shooting situation (which is a good reason to develop the unconscious ability to do it, as a tactical skillset), I remind them that spent & dropped mags aren't going to be an immediate 'problem' for them ... since they'll most likely end up being taken into evidence and held, along with their weapon. ;)
 
Any springs that "go soft" are made from inferior materials like work-hardened stainless steel.
Springs should be made from high carbon steel, properly heat treated. Carbon steel springs don't get weaker, they work harden and break at the end of their very long service life. The only thing that can make them get weaker is expansion/compression past their elastic limit, overheating, or corrosion.
Therefore- it is my opinion that ANY manufacturer using substandard springs should be avoided.
Improperly heat treated carbon steel springs will fail upon their first full compression-not later.
 
pistol mags are inherently garbage.

It's the low capacity and strong springs that make them reliable.

The angle of the mags contribute mostly towards sideways failure to feeds, usually on the last two rounds. This is made evident more so because of the fast cycle time of a pistol.

The double to single feed design is the cause of problems regarding rounds not wanting to come up fast enough due to negligibly dirty plastic followers and walls inside the mag. Again, made more evident by the quick cycle time of an auto pistol.

In order to make up for these issues, they require very strong springs. But if the body material is not of good quality, the repeated pressure by the rounds against feed lips will eventually flare them out. The magazines over time may even bulge out the sides a little bit.

There's also the issue of follower design. Due to the angle of the pistol mags, many followers can "dip" forward or backward and cause feeding problems in tandem with weak springs. If the follower dips backwards, you get sideways FTF. If it dips forward, you get a nose dive. This is made possible due to the first 4 rounds or so in the magazine being spread, like having your fingers spread out. Whereas the rounds in the middle of the mag are sitting tightly together, as if your fingers are all next to each other.
 
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