MADDOW: NRA in Freefall

Aguila Blanca said:
My comment was in response to the comment about "... taking their John Wick fans by the hand and improving their skills in a way that their customers are experiencing something novel and fun." How does your club regard people practicing their John Wick gun handling skills at the club range?
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We have guys who practice fast draw. They go to an unoccupied 3 gun bay and practice away.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Well, Aguila, I don’t think you understood the intent of my remark. But instead of repeatedly clarifying it and derailing this thread, I thought I’d let it drop.

My general intent wasn’t that RSOs babysit; but that ranges offer classes to help build their users skill base (which many ranges do); but that once those shooters demonstrate those skills, you stop treating them by the lowest common denominator rules.

Bringing this full circle, the suburban interest in self-defense is going to be a major driver for future shooters. Accessible range use is going to play a part in that; but just having the range is only part of it. There has to be a path for those who want to grow to grow, preferably without driving two hours and joining a private range.
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RSO in many instances do a tremendous amount of unnecessary baby sitting. I never have run a civilian range (and have no desire to). As a retired master swat operator and trainer, I do have a slight clue about gun safety. Over the years on civilian ranges, I must admit that most of what I have seen range officers correct people for is simply nitpicking stuff that has no meaningful impact on safety. Its always been my primary desire to teach people what to do instead of scold them about what not to do. I guess I might be too desensitized after being trained in IDF building clearing tactics. In training, our sniper, from 100 meters, would shoot a water balloon 38 inches over the point man's head. Getting wet was the signal to breach. While I never personally let that drill run on my range, I had that balloon shot several hundred times over my head. You evolve to a point of realizing safety is not about absolute and concrete rules, its about the person behind the trigger.
 
Reynolds 357 said:
We have guys who practice fast draw. They go to an unoccupied 3 gun bay and practice away.
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That's great if you are at a range with separate bays or pits. The only such range I have seen is the one where the SHOT Show conducts Industry Day at the Range, outside of Las Vegas. I have shot at or visited probably a dozen commercial indoor ranges and a similar number of commercial or club outdoor ranges in my home state and in Pennsylvania, and I have not encountered a range with separate pits anywhere other than at the SHOT Show.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
That's great if you are at a range with separate bays or pits. The only such range I have seen is the one where the SHOT Show conducts Industry Day at the Range, outside of Las Vegas. I have shot at or visited probably a dozen commercial indoor ranges and a similar number of commercial or club outdoor ranges in my home state and in Pennsylvania, and I have not encountered a range with separate pits anywhere other than at the SHOT Show.
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When we only had the one range, they (we)shot on it. Now that we have 3 new pits, life is easier. Before "practical" pistol became so popular, competition involved quite a bit of fast draw. I guess I shot 50,000+ rounds perfecting putting the first two shots on paper during the process of the draw.
 
Some folks live on meager incomes that used to go further than what they can afford today. After looking at some of the salaries that some of those leaders are making.....while I drive a 27 year-old Ranger with 400,000 miles on it that's had to be towed at least three times within recent memory..... Yeah, I'm looking for something more reliable that I can afford. So, I need to help pay Wayne's salary? I think they put something in the Kool-Aid. Or maybe it's just a rich folks club, way above my pay-grade. A lot of people that don't make anywhere near six figures a year are feeling disenfranchised enough already.
What happens when you lose the hard working common folks? Maybe we don't matter.
 
Pathfinder45 said:
Some folks live on meager incomes that used to go further than what they can afford today. After looking at some of the salaries that some of those leaders are making.....while I drive a 27 year-old Ranger with 400,000 miles on it that's had to be towed at least three times within recent memory..... Yeah, I'm looking for something more reliable that I can afford. So, I need to help pay Wayne's salary? I think they put something in the Kool-Aid. Or maybe it's just a rich folks club, way above my pay-grade. A lot of people that don't make anywhere near six figures a year are feeling disenfranchised enough already.
What happens when you lose the hard working common folks? Maybe we don't matter.
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I get where you're coming from. And I agree with you. There is no question Wayne LaPierre is way over compensated for what he does. Especially when you consider the NRA is supposed to be "Not For Profit".

He has himself dug in good. And it's been that way for years. But not joining, or worse not staying a member because of that is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The NRA is far from perfect. But with that said, they have more political clout and muscle than all the pro gun organizations out there put together.

Without the NRA we would be in far WORSE shape than we are now..... Wayne LaPierre and all. We can voice our displeasure with him financially, and hope they do something about it. But quitting is NOT the answer. In fact, it's the worst possible scenario. Just try to imagine if everyone did that.

The mess with LaPierre will get sorted out in due time. In the mean time keep supporting the NRA. Because without them, we're pretty much done for. Just ask yourself WHY all the liberal politicians hate them so much? It's sure not because the NRA makes it easier for them to pursue their anti gun agenda.
 
Yep, money grabbing Wayne La Pierre cares so much about the future of the NRA that he refuses to step down and allow new blood to re-organize the NRA.

For decades i contributed until it hurt while Lapierre and his minions squandered NRA funds. No more, my current donations are to deserving charity organizations.

When/if WLP goes away and the NRA is reorganized giving members input into running the organization, my donations may resume.
 
bill460 said:
I get where you're coming from. And I agree with you. There is no question Wayne LaPierre is way over compensated for what he does. Especially when you consider the NRA is supposed to be "Not For Profit".

He has himself dug in good. And it's been that way for years. But not joining, or worse not staying a member because of that is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The NRA is far from perfect. But with that said, they have more political clout and muscle than all the pro gun organizations out there put together.

Without the NRA we would be in far WORSE shape than we are now..... Wayne LaPierre and all. We can voice our displeasure with him financially, and hope they do something about it. But quitting is NOT the answer. In fact, it's the worst possible scenario. Just try to imagine if everyone did that.

The mess with LaPierre will get sorted out in due time. In the mean time keep supporting the NRA. Because without them, we're pretty much done for. Just ask yourself WHY all the liberal politicians hate them so much? It's sure not because the NRA makes it easier for them to pursue their anti gun agenda.
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If say 25 % of membership would contact NRA and tell them no donations and no renewal until Wayne is fired, he would be gone quickly.
I called and told them that.
 
WLP and his cronies have changed the by-laws on the NRA so that no house cleaning can happen by voting. they are more concerned with their own status than that of the organization. WLP has gotten his 10 times over and you think he would step aside and down for the sake of the organization, but his ego isn't going to let that happen. the slogan use to be "I am the NRA", but now its all about WLP.
 
JERRYS. said:
WLP and his cronies have changed the by-laws on the NRA so that no house cleaning can happen by voting.
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The sad thing is that we were warned about this by Jeff Knox at the time they revised the by-laws, but most members went ahead and rubber-stamped the changes.
 
It could happen like it did in the 70's when Harlon Carter and his group organized a takeover of the NRA. The NRA at the time was being infiltrated by anti gunners. They were all thrown out, and Harlon Carter took the NRA back to it's conservative grass roots. We need that again.
 
bill460 said:
It could happen like it did in the 70's when Harlon Carter and his group organized a takeover of the NRA. The NRA at the time was being infiltrated by anti gunners. They were all thrown out, and Harlon Carter took the NRA back to it's conservative grass roots. We need that again.
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can't happen anymore. WLP fixed it so the by-laws protect the top from the will of the members.
 
bill460 said:
It could happen like it did in the 70's when Harlon Carter and his group organized a takeover of the NRA. The NRA at the time was being infiltrated by anti gunners. They were all thrown out, and Harlon Carter took the NRA back to it's conservative grass roots. We need that again.
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Nope. Withholding donations and membership dues is the only tool we have left.
 
I have been a member for over 40 years and will continue to support it. Do they have problems? Yes.
I have also been a Catholic all my life and we're infested with pedophile priest. I have also been to the Vatican and have seen the endless amount of priceless art works they have, but are constantly begging me for money.
I am also a citizen of the USA and see on a daily basis corruption in all phases of my government , from town, state to federal. My government doesn't even ask for donations ,they just take it.
My point is I am not turning my back and forsaking my God,or I am not overthrowing my government because of human weakness we have to support and work together to clean house and make things better. So I will continue to support the NRA and do what I can to fix any problems in the organization as it's our best hope to defend the 2nd. Turning your back does no good except to strengthen the opposition.
 
polska said:
I have been a member for over 40 years and will continue to support it. Do they have problems? Yes.
I have also been a Catholic all my life and we're infested with pedophile priest. I have also been to the Vatican and have seen the endless amount of priceless art works they have, but are constantly begging me for money.
I am also a citizen of the USA and see on a daily basis corruption in all phases of my government , from town, state to federal. My government doesn't even ask for donations ,they just take it.
My point is I am not turning my back and forsaking my God,or I am not overthrowing my government because of human weakness we have to support and work together to clean house and make things better. So I will continue to support the NRA and do what I can to fix any problems in the organization as it's our best hope to defend the 2nd. Turning your back does no good except to strengthen the opposition.
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THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
In 1960 i joined the NRA as a life member. Never in my wildest dreams did i think the NRA membership would be neutered and rendered powerless to resist the crooked machinations of a charlatan like Wayne La Pierre.

Continue to donate your money to the NRA. Wayne needs the money: Thanks to his stupid lawsuits, lawyers are costing the NRA $90,000 per day.
 
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