M25 S&W 45 ACP..... moon or none?

At least according to one well know gun writer, S&W briefly made a run of 625's with no ledge for head spacing of 45 acp rounds without a moon clip. Apparently a cost cutting move that was reversed shortly there after.
 
way back in 2000, my gunsmith made me a conversion .45 ACP cylinder for my S&W 25-5 I specified straight through bores, and have always used half or full moon clips. there is a bit of 'free bore' for the bullet to jump across, but that never really had an effect on accuracy. I won a lot of bowling pin matches with that revolver.
 
The problem with the 1917 rechambered to 45 Colt was that it barely chambered a 45 Colt.
There wasn't a lot of room left in the cylinder. And yes it did give ignition problem.
The gun was not marked at all about the rechamber job.
45ACP bulged badly.
I took it back to the LGS I bought it from, traded in for a 640 S&W in 38special.
The owner told me he wasn't going to resell it, I think it got stripped for parts
Live and learn.
 
Was this done to eliminate the need for trimming of reloaded brass?
I would imagine you went through a lot of ammo with that 25.
 
I have no idea why somebody did this to this revolver.
45ACP, was bulged so badly, that I didn't want to attempt reloading it.
45 Colt literally slopped back and forth in the cylinder. If it was forward, it was out of reach of the firing pin. If it was back, it was binding on the frame, and was driven forward at firing.
Also it had the ugliest nickle plate job I've ever seen.
It was cheap, but I couldn't trust it.
They only reason to do this, we could come up with was somebody wanted a 45 Colt in an N frame.
 
I....just....tried no moons at all. Shot just fine. :)

Kinda surprised me. Now whadda I do with all the RIMZ clips? :confused:

NO, I will not sell them! :D

Did need a poker-outer. :o
 
Lavan said:
I....just....tried no moons at all. Shot just fine. :)

Kinda surprised me. Now whadda I do with all the RIMZ clips? :confused:

NO, I will not sell them! :D

Did need a poker-outer. :o
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Shooting the 1917 S&W without moon clips works ... when in high school my best buddy's father had a case of 45 acp ammo a 1917 S&W that he let us shoot we had no moon clips , carried a pencil to poke em out with ... no finger nails to speak of either ...
But ... a Colt 1917 was bored straight through ... if you didn't have 1/2 moon clips you didn't shoot the Colt ... why Colt did this I don't know ... But I always liked the S&W way / design better !
Gary
 
Originally posted by gwpercle
But ... a Colt 1917 was bored straight through ... if you didn't have 1/2 moon clips you didn't shoot the Colt ... why Colt did this I don't know
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Colt actually had a history of boring their chambers straight through. I have read that it is actually possible to chamber .38 Special and even .357 Magnum in a Colt New Army or New Navy revolver chambered in .38 Long Colt though obviously firing the higher pressure cartridges in such a gun would be very unsafe.

Many of Colt's older revolvers had bored-through cylinders because they were originally chambered for cartridges which used heel-based bullets like .38 Short Colt or .41 Long Colt. When it became clear that cartridges with inside lubricated bullets like .44 Russian were superior, Colt elected to keep the case diameters and bore diameters the same but decrease the bullet diameter and use an inside-lubricated, hollow-base bullet in the hopes that the hollow base would obturate enough when fired to deliver acceptable accuracy (it often didn't which is why the practice was eventually abandoned). Because of this, Colt continued to bore the chambers of many of their revolvers straight through so that ammunition with both the older heel-based bullets and newer inside-lubricated bullets could be used interchangeably.

When one considers that the early Colt 1917 revolvers were only a few decades removed from their earlier Wild West era revolvers and the need for wartime expediency, it really isn't all that surprising that they'd choose to bore their chambers straight through though this obviously wasn't the best solution as evidenced by the fact that the great majority of such revolvers were retrofitted with the later-style cylinders.

Speaking of revolvers which had their chambers altered after the fact, I once came across an interesting if not particularly well done conversion of a S&W Second Model Hand Ejector to .45 Long Colt. The gun had British proof marks which leads me to believe that it had started life as a WWI Brit contract gun in .455 Webley. While the barrel had been shortened to about 3 1/2" (and not done all that well) and the gun nickel-plated, the interesting bit was how they rechambered it to .45 Long Colt. Not only did they bore the chambers deeper to allow for the longer cartridge, but they also slightly recessed the chambers to allow for the thicker rim of .45 LC with the effect being that the cartridge rims did sit down into the cylinder counterbore, but not far enough to be completely flush with the rear face of the cylinder as would be the case with a factory recessed S&W. I found it interesting that such detailed machining had been done to the cylinder when it would have probably been easier to just mill down the entire face of the cylinder to account for the thicker rims as was done with Webley revolvers that were "shaved" to shoot .45 ACP in moon clips, particularly when the rest of the gun had been hacked up so poorly.
 
how they rechambered it to .45 Long Colt. Not only did they bore the chambers deeper to allow for the longer cartridge, but they also slightly recessed the chambers to allow for the thicker rim of .45 LC with the effect being that the cartridge rims did sit down into the cylinder counterbore, but not far enough to be completely flush with the rear face of the cylinder as would be the case with a factory recessed S&W. I found it interesting that such detailed machining had been done to the cylinder when it would have probably been easier to just mill down the entire face of the cylinder to account for the thicker rims
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I read of a very refined version of that, the LC rim recess just large enough for Colt cartridges, letting the wider but thinner .455s headspace as originally made.

I don't know what would be easier, setting up to face off the rear of the cylinder or just having a chamber reamer ground to cut the rim recess in one pass.

In my youth, I snapped up a .455 -> .45 LC conversion without realizing that it was a particularly crude effort, the standing breech filed to accept LC rims. I later sold it to a collector who just wanted the type to display, no interest in shooting and more interested in price than strict originality.
 
a lot of people talk about full moon and 1/2 moons....but not too many talk about what I used, 1/3 moons.
are they still around? they loaded real easily and were easier to handle.
 
My 625 JM will allow you to grab the cases with your finger nails.
No great amount of effort is needed, at least with standard pressure ammo.
 
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