m1 Garand

Tim... respectfully how in the world can loading the rifle result in M1 thumb? The bolt cannot ride over the top round in the en bloc, the follower doesn't allow it. If it can, the rifle is broken.

Also respectfully, Gbro, the anecdote re: your brother in law's rifle only proves something about that rifle. I do not know the condition of the rifle or how the operator used it, beyond the fact that the rifle was known to not be in proper operating condition (return spring missing).

In order to examine the potential of an M1 rifle to slamfire, we must consider an M1 rifle exhibiting this behavior. And then we must determine why, without guesswork. "The pin is free floating and doesn't incorporate a device featured on another rifle with a free floating fire pin" is an observation of each rifle's design, not evidence of each rifle's "bad" behavior; there are more facets to the design. The overall design of the M1 did not leave a great deal to chance; there were double and even triple functions of parts, to ensure correct function. I have read accounts of the design work and the acceptance trials of the M1 and in the deficiencies noted during development, I have not run into an account of slamfires being one of them. I do not read instances here of slamfires due to the free floating pin working correctly. In old magazines I do not read about M1s making slamfires either.

I agree that your brother in law's rifle had this behavior. However I disagree that this dictates the M1 rifle's behavior.
 
I keep reading about M1 rifles "slamfiring" and there have been some long and furious posts accusing the designer of, at a minimum, incompetence. But the M1 did not evidence that tendency in service, with properly maintained rifles and proper ammunition. With "cut and weld" rifles, rifles thrown together from after-market parts, soft primers, etc., anything goes. In almost every situation described, the problem was not slamfiring but doubling, showing the lack of knowledge of those who confuse the two conditions.

A true slamfire, with the round firing without the bolt being locked, will ALWAYS release high pressure gas into the action, ruin the rifle, and possibly injure the shooter.

Incidentally, why is someone talking about the M1 rifle "slamfiring" and then using his experience with a Remington 742 to prove the M1 is deficient, then illustrating the post with a picture of a BOLT ACTION rifle?

Jim
 
Prvi Partizan (PPU) makes a fine load for the Garand.

SGA has it for 339.50 (500 rds) plus shipping, AIM Surplus and Wideners are a bit cheaper but they are sold out now.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/30-06/500-round-can-30-06-fmj-150-grain-prvi-partizan-m1-garand-ammo-pp347

If you want to take a bit of a gamble Cheaper than Dirt has some grade B Greek HXP for around .35 a round, plus shipping.

Some of the fellows on the CMP forum ordered it when they had it in 8 round clips and they seemed pleased overall.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=169245
 
[QUOTEAfter the incidence we were looking thing over and noticed that several cartridges in the magazine had very light indentations on the primers.][/QUOTE]

I'm lost on this one. If the primers had very light (meaning very VERY light) indentations on the primers while in the clip (said magazine)- then those would have also been there while they were still in the box. Or, they would have resulted from the plunger face of whatever priming tool was used prior to being placed into whatever they were placed in by whom ever loaded the ammunition. I've seen tiny dots, squares, rectangles, ect on factory loaded ammo primers, so I do not believe that what was described above had anything to do with the M1 in question.
 
A true slamfire, with the round firing without the bolt being locked, will ALWAYS release high pressure gas into the action, ruin the rifle, and possibly injure the shooter.
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Sir, Were you referring to a condition only with the M1 design in this statement?

illustrating the post with a picture of a BOLT ACTION rifle?
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Sir, I wasn't pointing to the bolt action, I was referring to the 3rd picture down of the light strike's on the primer to not be confused with the lighter strikes that I have seen and have believed to be the result of a free floating firing pin.
 
Unless you live in south Florida...
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I used to be heavy into classic muscle cars and guys in my club would go bananas over these great deals on "original South Florida cars". They figured South=no rust!
 
I don't know what .30-'06 ammo is still corrosive. The U.S. has not used corrosive primers for over sixty years, and most of the WWII era ammunition has long been shot up or, in some cases, deteriorated and will not fire.

Even foreign ammo in that caliber is commercial (e.g., Russian) and not corrosive. There is no Russian "milsurp ammo" in .30-'06, since their military never used that caliber.

Certainly ammunition sold by CMP is non-corrosive.

I think the concern and worry over corrosive ammo is overblown and outdated, or maybe even misunderstood. ("The cases have stains on them showing the ammo is corrosive" is a common statement in posts on the subject.)

Jim
 
Double tap issue- maybe this will shine some light on the perceived slam fire or double fire issue with the Garand. A friend of mine kindly allowed me to shoot his Korean War commemorative Garand. First shot had significant recoil and sounded a bit "off" second shot was fine third was same as first. Bystanders told me it was double tapping, a glance on the ground at the 5 cases from 3 shots proved it. I tried letting off the trigger quicker so as not to DT and ended up clearing the clip. The gun owner (vet) knew what the issue was right away. I wasnt holding the trigger back when I shot. I was trying to reset trigger for next shot and in doing so I was essentially imitating the slide fire stock for ARs. I dont know why I thought I could move faster than the rifle could reset. Doh! I am not used to firing semis with heavy recoil like a 30-06 and the issue never presented itself with SA shotguns. At any point, once I realized what I was doing the shooting was much more pleasant. Not sure if its anything in the design of the M1 that lends itself to slide fire or just my poor technique. I could see how some would believe the gun was to blame.
Slamfire- I watched a fella hand a SKS to a woman with near zero experience while at the range. She grabbed the grip and placed her finger on the trigger. Seeing as she was new the fella then released the bolt for her. It slams closed, her finger moves the trigger back, and the gun goes off. No design issue.
I suspect that 99% of the time its user error of some sort that causes firearm issues. I have done it a few times myself, seen it done many other times. Sometimes by experienced shootists, sometimes newbs that need a little more instruction than they receive. I hope many more people think the Garand is flowed and stop buying them so that the prices drop for me to purchase one.
 
Double tap issue- maybe this will shine some light on the perceived slam fire or double fire issue with the Garand. A friend of mine kindly allowed me to shoot his Korean War commemorative Garand. First shot had significant recoil and sounded a bit "off" second shot was fine third was same as first. Bystanders told me it was double tapping, a glance on the ground at the 5 cases from 3 shots proved it. I tried letting off the trigger quicker so as not to DT and ended up clearing the clip. The gun owner (vet) knew what the issue was right away. I wasnt holding the trigger back when I shot. I was trying to reset trigger for next shot and in doing so I was essentially imitating the slide fire stock for ARs. I dont know why I thought I could move faster than the rifle could reset. Doh! I am not used to firing semis with heavy recoil like a 30-06 and the issue never presented itself with SA shotguns. At any point, once I realized what I was doing the shooting was much more pleasant. Not sure if its anything in the design of the M1 that lends itself to slide fire or just my poor technique. I could see how some would believe the gun was to blame.
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My experience differs from your explanation. I was using my M1 in local competition at the time when it gradually started doubling. After replacing the trigger parts, it stopped...no more doubling. My trigger pulling technique did not change.
 
Milking the Trigger

Shooting from a bench has caused me a couple of quick doubles while shooting my M1. Made the RO mad at me for not observing the 'slow fire' rule.
Now I know that holding the trigger back and breaking the shot without milking, or slowly pulling the trigger prevents this problem while shooting from a bench position.
:confused:
 
I have tried and was never able to manipulate a milspec M1 rifle trigger in such a way as to cause doubling. I have had it happen with a rifle whose owner did his idea of a match trigger job, and with one whose trigger group was made up from soft after-market parts that just wore out.

Jim
 
Iranian 30-06 & 8mm surplus ammo is corrosive. SAMCO used to sell loose Persian 30-06 in tins, though I'm not sure if the stock has run out.
 
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