M1 garand failure to feed

I would inspect the gas port hole to make sure it is free of obstruction, and to measure its diameter while I am at it. No fancy gauges are needed. A set of number drill bits will do.

Manually pull back the charging handle to determine the position at which the bolt can reliably pick up a fresh round and add margin of 1/8" to 1/4". Mark that position and put masking tape on it so that the charging would hit it when it travels beyond that point.

Fire a clip or two and check the tape after each shot. If the tape is broken and yet bolt over ride happens, it is probably not the gas system.

Other than the gas system, the issue can also be caused by hesitation of the round column going up in the clip. The round must be there on time for the bolt to pick up.

Gas system deficiencies, leakage, undersized gas port, low port pressure etc, can definitely be the cause.

-TL


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Yeah, I do not have to appropriate drill bit set to measure the gas port. But I haven't visually checked it.

I like the tape idea, I'll give that a go. I'll have to pick up more m2 ball. I might buy some regular -06 designed for garands too

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I hate to ask such a basic questions, but are you sure it doesn’t have one of those aftermarket adjustable gas plugs?
 
I hate to ask such a basic questions, but are you sure it doesn’t have one of those aftermarket adjustable gas plugs?
Don't feel bad asking basic questions, I'm sure it's something simple I forgot.

No, it's not an aftermarket adjustable/bleeder style plug that let's you shoot modern ammo.

I've yet to get the rifle out, when I do I'll inspect the gas port in the barrel, and make sure the magazine assembly is together correctly

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Nhyrum,

Does the bolt lock back after the last round and empty clip eject? Since the gun worked fine before you tore it down and reassembled it, I assume it does that, and this demonstrates there is nothing wrong with the gas cylinder, its spring, or the operating rod.

Locking back after clip ejection proves the bolt is moving back far enough to pick up a fresh round. It sounds to me like you installed a part upside down, which spoils the gun's ability to accelerate the magazine follower up fast enough to get a round in place for pickup before the bolt is already over the top of the magazine and heading back into battery. I know I did this once when I was new to the gun, but it was over forty years ago, and I've forgotten exactly how I did it. It may have been the little piece pinned into the operating rod catch assembly that I flipped over.

Yep. That's it. Looking at the blueprint, that part is called the accelerator and it helps accelerate the follower upward.
 
Nhyrum,



Does the bolt lock back after the last round and empty clip eject? Since the gun worked fine before you tore it down and reassembled it, I assume it does that, and this demonstrates there is nothing wrong with the gas cylinder, its spring, or the operating rod.



Locking back after clip ejection proves the bolt is moving back far enough to pick up a fresh round. It sounds to me like you installed a part upside down, which spoils the gun's ability to accelerate the magazine follower up fast enough to get a round in place for pickup before the bolt is already over the top of the magazine and heading back into battery. I know I did this once when I was new to the gun, but it was over forty years ago, and I've forgotten exactly how I did it. It may have been the little piece pinned into the operating rod catch assembly that I flipped over.



Yep. That's it. Looking at the blueprint, that part is called the accelerator and it helps accelerate the follower upward.
No, the bolt doesn't even go back far enough to eject a clip.

I really do think that I've just assembled it wrong, I'll look at it the manuals and make sure I get everything in correctly

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Edit:

I knew this had come up before. Here's a thread where a backward follower was a problem. However, reading the last post, it looks like the operating rod catch (drawing below) was not correctly oriented to have the hook clear properly, so he had a couple of issues you can check.


Edit, Edit:

For those curious about the accelerator issue, here's the gummint drawing showing its correct orientation in the operating rod catch:

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Sorry for taking forever, gun is a little buried.

I believe I have the accelerator in correctly.
9741c8d50782043f723545e1b0e3ff20.jpg


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Screw the gas cylinder lock back on all the way and then just back it off enough to time at the 6:00 position. By backing it off 2 whole turns, it is blocking some of the barrel gas port hole, hence the short-stroking.

Jon
 
Screw the gas cylinder lock back on all the way and then just back it off enough to time at the 6:00 position. By backing it off 2 whole turns, it is blocking some of the barrel gas port hole, hence the short-stroking.



Jon
I initially had the problem with it screwed all the way in. With it screwed all the way in, from photos I shared, it appeared it was too far back. I've tried it all the way in (which is really more like very lightly torqued after making contact - like 5 degrees of rotation), backed off a turn, or backing off till it lines up again but not torqued, and backed off an additional turn

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Last edited:
Sorry to revive this thread, again. I don't get out to the range as often as I'd like. It's maybe once or twice a year instead of once or twice a week.

Took it out again today, but I bought some ppu m1 garand ammo, and she runs like a dream. Seems like it was an ammo issue

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Does it now run with the heavier of your 175-grain SMK loads and the M2 Ball loads? It should. Curious business.

You can, btw, use a bent paperclip to find the gas port and see how the gas cylinder is located under it. If it is packed with carbon, a 2 mm drill is closest to the hole size needed to clear it. The original hole drill was a custom size 0.0790 -0/+0.0015", but at 0.0787", the 2mm is close enough, is probably at your Ace Hardware and can be used to clean the carbon out.
 
No, and it didn't cycle the vintage m2 ball I had either.

When I've had it apart, the gas port is clean, but I haven't checked size.

I don't have my load data I used for the 175's at hand, but I know I did venture above the m1 service rifle book data, simply because at Max it didn't cycle, and the published loading for the m72 is above max, at 48-50 grains imr 4895.

I think I'm going to go back and just duplicate the m2, 150 grain load, then fiddle with the finding something more accurate. Right now I just need to learn iron sights(both pistol and rifle) better, and I'm not really going to see much a difference, other than the wallet being lighter

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No, and it didn't cycle the vintage m2 ball I had either.

When I've had it apart, the gas port is clean, but I haven't checked size.

I don't have my load data I used for the 175's at hand, but I know I did venture above the m1 service rifle book data, simply because at Max it didn't cycle, and the published loading for the m72 is above max, at 48-50 grains imr 4895.

I think I'm going to go back and just duplicate the m2, 150 grain load, then fiddle with the finding something more accurate. Right now I just need to learn iron sights(both pistol and rifle) better, and I'm not really going to see much a difference, other than the wallet being lighter

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You have worn gas system parts.

My offer stands


I'll be glad to give it a full tech inspection if you want.

Also your match load information is too high. It was never loaded with 48-50gr of 4895.
 
You have worn gas system parts.



My offer stands





I'll be glad to give it a full tech inspection if you want.



Also your match load information is too high. It was never loaded with 48-50gr of 4895.
I am starting to believe that to be the case. I'm just glad I didn't bend anything.

I'll send you a pm

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I thought, from the first post, the gun had run just fine until you disassembled and reassembled it. If so, the gas system won't suddenly go out of spec like that. It'll have a gradually increasing number of failures as it wears. Also, if you follow the reloading forum on the CMP website, you'll find folks getting good operation from loads much lighter than M2 Ball, while still others use vented gas plugs (similar effect to the loosening of the gas system) to bring down pressure for less vigorous operation, and still others have had new piston heads silver brazed onto their operating rods after having the old one cut off, shortening the rod and thereby increasing the volume the gas port is feeding, and the gun still runs. So, I am still suspicious something in your assembly is off.


Ammo:

The bulk IMR 4895 used by FA and Lake City for National Match ammo from the years 1957-1966 varied about 5% in burn rate based on the variation in charge weights they used during that period and the actual velocities they got over those years. If we take the load ranges Hodgdon posts for the 150-grain Nosler BT and the 175-grain SMK and use those bullets as surrogates for the 152 and 174.5-grain M2 and M1 Type (for M72) bullets, and we assume Hodgdon's loads are for the center values of current production IMR4895 burn rate, to produce M2 and M72 muzzle velocities would take charges of 47.6 and 47.5 grains of IMR4895, respectively, using those bullets as loaded by Hodgdon. They are remarkably close charge numbers, and, as you might guess, the heavier bullet load, with its slower exit speed, will provide the greater gas impulse to the gas cylinder, so you will get a harder shove on the gas system with the 175-grain load than with the 150-grain load.

One issue with these substitutions is the seating depth and bullet length differences are enough that the original M2 Ball bullet could have required another grain or so of powder. But that's a factor you can adjust for, as I will describe further down.

Note that 47.6 grains is below Hodgdon's starting load for the 150-grain bullet, but 47.5 grains is in the middle of their range for a 175-grain bullet, so the latter load should be backed down to 46 grains (Hodgdon's starting load) and worked up to that value.

A note on the muzzle velocities. The military traditionally measured these at 78 feet from the muzzle. In 1962, LC switched to 15 feet for M72 NM. I don't know whether the M2 standard was ever changed or not, but in 1962 LC was becoming more concerned with National Match ammunition accuracy performance and changed their test protocols some. I have worked backward from those numbers to get the following averages:

For M2 to run 2740 fps at 78 feet from the muzzle of a velocity and pressure (V&P) test barrel chambered with the powder back over the flash hole, as the military qualifies it, the equivalent velocity at 15 feet (where Hodgdon measures it per SAAMI procedure) would be 2790 fps. So, that's the number to use when adjusting Hodgdon's data for M2 velocity. (If you want to get really picky, take off one foot per second to 2789 fps to allow for the military numbers being for U.S. Army Standard Metro conditions and Hodgdon's being adjusted to an ICAO standard atmosphere.)

For M72, the 15-foot velocity would be 2680 fps.

Note that the Hodgdon data uses a Winchester case and Winchester primer. You might want to acquire a few of those particular items and some of the Nosler bullets and use the SMKs you have already and load them exactly as Hodgdon specifies, the same COL in particular. Set up with a chronograph and fire over it, handling the cartridges so the powder lays back against the flash hole. This will tell you what your gun's velocities are with that load, as compared to the Hodgdon V&P barrel, which will have much tighter chamber specs. You can then adjust your numbers proportionally. That is, if your gun gets 50 fps less than the Hodgdon V&P barrel did when you switch bullets and primers and COL around, that's the target velocity you want to hit with them fired the same way.

Pay attention to keeping the powder back. Testing with National Match ammo years ago, I found the difference between the powder being back over the flash hole (tipped the loaded rifle's muzzle up before slowly bringing it down level to fire) and having it forward in the case (tipped muzzle down before slowly bringing it up level to fire) was about 80 fps. It was also the difference between a noticeably flattened (though not excessively) and a rounded primer, I knew the pressure difference was following it at almost 7000 psi difference.

Also, note that the test gun does not have to be your Garand. The Hodgdon gun was not, and the military V&P barrel was not. A bolt rifle with positive feed makes it a little easier to keep powder oriented the way you want as you close the chamber. Just use the same ratio of your gun's velocity to the V&P barrel gun's velocity to get translated to your components and develop that load in the same gun.
 
If you need a good grease for your M1 try one of these. They work great.

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I need to get out and shoot mine soon.

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