M1 Chambering When Clip Inserted

B

BobRowe

New member
I need some help with my M1 Garand. When I insert a full clip and then release pressure on it, the bolt won't automatically go forward and chamber a round. I am aware that a "corrective action" in this instance is to tap on the operating rod handle -- and, yes, that does cause the op rod and bolt to slam forward and chamber the top round. But that is *not* spec, and I'd like it to work according to specifications.

I have checked all parts for bending and burrs, and they seem OK. I've taken spcial care to insure that all parts are lubricated properly. Chuck Santose has suggested that I pound the end of the bullet guide to enlarge it to compensate for possible wear that may be screwing up the timing, but that hasn't helped. I've installed a new operating rod spring. But the bolt only moves forward to a point where the bolt face is contacting the base of the top round, and then it stops unless the op rod handle is "heeled".

I have taken off the stock and watched the action parts while I have inserted the clip. When the clip hits bottom, the operating rod catch does fully disengage from the op rod. The op rod moves forward about 1/2" to 3/4" to a point where the bolt is toucning the base of the first round and then stops.

Actually, the problem can be seen even without using a clip. With the stock group and trigger group removed, when I pull back on the op rod handle, I can consistently get the bolt to "lock" back as soon as it gets behind the magazine follower--even though it must be moved considerably further back before the op rod catch engages the lugs on the operating rod.

Any help here will be greatly appreciated. If it's the bullet guide, I can get one from Fulton Armory for $6.75 -- but I'm not entirely convinced that's the problem. Any suggestions or ideas? Thanks.

--Bob Rowe
 
FWIW I met up with a guy at the range who let him shoot his two M1-types - one mag-fed, one stripper fed.

This is my first and only experience with the model.

He showed me how to load it with a stripper without losing my thumb. However, the bolt stayed back on its own, as you have described.


Not saying this makes it normal or not - just throwing in a vote that, right or wrong I've fired a working M1 that happened to do the same.


Battler.
 
Bob - You mentioned the bullet guide - I suspect you have the same technical references I do which point to it as the culprit. I'll be interested to read responses from those TFL'ers who are far more well versed in Garands than I.

I did want to point out that on my Garand the bolt will also lock back behind the magazine follower. However, with the bolt all the way locked back and inserting a clip, the bolt releases and chambers the round properly.

Just an additional data point.

Cliff
 
Sounds pretty normal. It's an unusual--and very little used--M1 that will load slickly all by itself once the clip locks in and the bolt releases. If it takes a LOT of effort, then accumulated wear quite possibly is the culprit. There was also a bullet guide developed after WWII to speed up the 'timing' of bolt release a bit and help. It's not the whole solution but improved matters slightly. If you have the average M1 the usual drill is just to push the clip in until it locks in (hopefully all the rounds are properly seated to the rear to facilitate insertion). Then, as a matter of course, give the op rod handle a habitual whack to ensure that it really goes home. This was SOP back in the late 50s when the M1 was still issue and I suspect any GI from those years will confirm it. Just part of the legend.

Also--check out www.jouster.com for all things M1. The place is a gold mine of info and populated by nice people.

------------------
 
Battler,

I also have seem of today's M1s that need the tap. I've also seen some that don't. Not needing it on a clean, correctly tuned drifle is "spec". Needing the tap is a corrective, not the operation according to specifications. I realize that I can make it function by tapping the op rod handle, but I want to get it working IAW with "specs". Thanks.
 
Cliff,

Since my post here, I've had conversations with someone who pointed out (correctly) that the bolt not moving forward past the magazine follower slide in an empty magazine is normal operation according to specs. Makes sense, since the follower slide stops the bolt, and the clide can't move forward. But the bolt shouldn't stop when it encounters the top round in an inserted round, because the top cartridge *can* move forward. If clip lips holding the top cartridge create enough resistance to movement to prevent the bolt from moving forward, then one of two things has to be the culprit: (1) A weak operating rod spring; or (2) Some unwanted friction in the moving parts.

A guy on the Firearms Forum (on Outdoors.com) suggested that I check the cleanliness of the gas cylinder. I'm going to do that next. I've had the action parts disassembled several times while troubleshooting this thing, but never thought to check the gas cylinder. Thanks for the reply.

--Bob

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cliff:
Bob - You mentioned the bullet guide - I suspect you have the same technical references I do which point to it as the culprit. I'll be interested to read responses from those TFL'ers who are far more well versed in Garands than I.

I did want to point out that on my Garand the bolt will also lock back behind the magazine follower. However, with the bolt all the way locked back and inserting a clip, the bolt releases and chambers the round properly.

Just an additional data point.

Cliff[/quote]
 
Robert,

Thanks for the reply. Since my original post, I've had a couple of armorers tell me that its not a timing problem caused by the bullet guide, because the operating rod catch is, in fact, completely disengaging from the operating rod lugs when the clip is inserted. The operating rod is beign released from the catch, and it goes forward half an inch to an inch, but stops when the bolt encounters the top cartridge in the clip. Since I have installed a new oeprating rod spring, this points to something causing unwanting friction, thus robbing the operating rod spring of some of its force.

BTW, I am a GI from back in the 50s, and it was definitely *not* SOP to have to tap the operating rod handle to get the first round to chamber. At, least not with a properly lubricated and functioning rifle. Having to tap the op rod handle was usually a sign that the rifle needed cleaning! After I enlisted, I must have used at least a dozen M1 rifles, and none of them ever had to be "tapped" to chamber the cartridge, as long as they were clean and lubed properly. Neither did those of my buddies. Of course, most manuals will tell you to tap the handle if the bolt doesn't automatically chamber a round, but this is a "corrective action" to be taken in the field when necessary -- usually because the rifle has be come dirty from powder fouling, dirt, sand, or other foreign substance.

Insterestingly, someone on the Firearms forum just suggested that I check the cleanliness of the gas cylinder. I hadn't thought to check that, despite disassembling, cleaning, and luging the action parts several times. Although the operating rod piston looks clean, the gas cylinder could be dirty, and thus slowing the action enough to prevent the bolt from over-riding the aresistance of the top cartridge in the clip. I'll check that tomorrow. If it solves the problem, I'll post it on the list.

Also, thanks much for the pointer to www.jouster.com -- I'll certainly check them out.

--Bob


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Foote:
Sounds pretty normal. It's an unusual--and very little used--M1 that will load slickly all by itself once the clip locks in and the bolt releases. If it takes a LOT of effort, then accumulated wear quite possibly is the culprit. There was also a bullet guide developed after WWII to speed up the 'timing' of bolt release a bit and help. It's not the whole solution but improved matters slightly. If you have the average M1 the usual drill is just to push the clip in until it locks in (hopefully all the rounds are properly seated to the rear to facilitate insertion). Then, as a matter of course, give the op rod handle a habitual whack to ensure that it really goes home. This was SOP back in the late 50s when the M1 was still issue and I suspect any GI from those years will confirm it. Just part of the legend.

Also--check out www.jouster.com for all things M1. The place is a gold mine of info and populated by nice people.

[/quote]
 
Since my original post on this problem, here's some additional information. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but thing has really got me bamboozled! (g) And I sure appreciate the time that you folks given to me on this problem.

I use a clip full of dummy rounds. The way this thing behaves with the dummy rounds is the same as on the range with live rounds, but I don't want to be chambering live rounds in my gun room! (g)

First, there is never any problem locking the bolt back. I can see that the operating rod catch always fully engages with the lugs on the operating rod. There are no burrs or anything weird on either of the mating surfaces.

Second, I have triple-checked to insure that everything is lubed. I have cleaned the gas cylinder also. After removing the operating rod spring and follower and doing the tilt test, the operating rod and bolt slide easily from full battery to full recoil with absolutely no hesitation or drag.

Third, the timing does appear to be off. As I understand and remember it, this is supposed to be the way it works correctly:
(1) The clip is inserted until the clip latch engages the notch on the clip.
(2) The bolt will remain locked back as long as downward thumb pressure is held on the clip.
(3) When downward pressure on the clip is released, the bolt will slam forward, chambering the top round.

Here's how mine works:
(1) The clip is inserted and pushed downward, maintaining steady downward pressure on the clip.
(2) When the clip nears the bottom of the magazine well, the bolt releases and starts forward, even though downward pressure is still being maintained on the clip.
(3) When the bolt releases, sometimes the clip latch has engaged the clip and sometimes it hasn't. If it hasn't, a little further downward pressure will cause the clip latch to engage.
(4) The bolt has only moved forward a short distance, maybe 1/4", until the front lower edge of the bolt contacts the base of the top round in the clip.
(5) The top round is pushed forward a very short distance -- the rim of the top round is about even with the extraction groove of the rest of the rounds.
(6) At that point, forward movement of the bolt stops (downward pressure is still being applied on clip).
(7) Removing downward pressure on the clip does not result in any further movement of the bolt.
(8) At this point, if I pull back on the operating rod handle, either one of two things will happen:
(a) If the clip latch had not engaged, pulling the op rod handle back will cause the op rod catch to engage and the clip to be automatically ejected.
(b) If the clip latch had been engaged, pulling the op rod handle back will not cause the op rod catch to engage. But if the handle is held back, the clip latch button can be depressed and the clip ejected.

In the situation at (8)(b) above, if the op rod handle is tapped with the heel of the right hand, the bolt will go forward the ret of the way and chamber the top round. On the other hand, if instead of tapping the handle, it is pulled to the rear and released, it will go forward and bang against the base of the top round, pushing it a little more forward. Doing this 2 or 3 times will cause the top round to finally release from the clip and the bolt will then go all the way forward, chambering the round.

I have replaced the operating rod spring with a new one from Fulton Armory. I have also replaced the clip latch spring with a new one from Fulton Armory.

From reading Hatcher's book and other sources, including Chuck Santose, it sure looks like a worn hump on the nose of the bullet guide could be adversely affecting timing. But even though the bolt releases too soon, shouldn't it continue forward, chambering a round -- and possibly causing M1 Thumb?

Thanks again. I appreciate all ideas and comments.

--Bob
 
Bob--I have cudgelled my brains on this one as well, with the Kuhnhausen book open in front of me. I have also raised the question of 'how to make my M1 load like greased lightning' on CSP but not really gotten satisfactory answers. Kuhnhausen does refer to nose height on the bullet guide, and peening to to specs (or replacing it with a new one) does help. I am always suspicious of 'cumulative wear' but have replaced virtually all feed mechanism parts and op rod springs without significant change. I suspect that the bend of the op rod where the release sear bears could have some effect, but am not sure. There is also a clip timing block available from Brownell's--either nylon or metal--that will give a readout on correct timing...which I do not have.

I too would like to know the 'secret' if there is one. When it works properly it is a joy and very impressive.

------------------
 
Bob:

An old M-1 rifle I shot in competition for a number of years acted the same way, sometimes. Once the first (top) round was chambered, no problems were experienced. Forget it, and enjoy your rifle, it might be almost as old as you are.
 
Mr. Rowe: Instead of going to bed like a sensible person I went down and fooled with this problem for a couple of hours. I may have stumbled on to something by a process of elimination. I ensured that all of the areas that needed lubrication (Plastilube) had it, including accelerator rub points, op rod catch sear, top of hammer, and--a first for me--op rod spring inside the tube. The latter seems to make things run more smoothly, which was nice but not critical. What I did notice was the reluctance of the bolt to close further was coincident with the shoulder of the top (first round to the right) round in the clip abutting the rib which tends to force it to the left or centerline. It is fairly obvious that getting the round past that point requires a considerable amount of force--more than to just start the round moving forward, and more than it needs once past that rib. The top of this rib in my rifle had a noticeable nick. I VERY carefully stoned that area to original contour and smoothed it, checking feeding constantly as I went. In the process making that top round feed required less and less of a 'bump' to the op rod handle, until mere insertion of the clip would allow the round to be completely chambered upon removal of my thumb from the top of the clip. This rifle has never done that before under any circumstances--so I think I am on to something here. I did some other minor things to encourage the process--polishing the lips of the clip and the cartridge cases--but I do not think that had any great effect. I will probably pursue this further, but as of this time I suspect that smoothing that rub area of those ribs will do more than any other single thing to make the rifle load properly. FWIW.

------------------
 
Robert,

I'm pretty sure you're on to the basis of at least one of the problems here, because of something I found out last night.

I think there are two problems with my M1. First, the timeing is a little off, but not much. If I insert the clip tentatively, the bolt will sometimes release just before the clip latches. If I firmly insert the clip in a smooth motion, this doesn't happen. So I think the timing is just a little off, and that the timing problem is caused by a worn hump on the nose of the bullet guide. I've tried peening it, but it doesn't change the dimension of the hump.

Second, there is the problem, as you noticed also, of the bolt stopping when it encounters the top round in the magazine. Lsst night, I tried inserting clips of dummy ammo while I had the stock removed, so that I could observe the action parts. I noticed that there was absolutely no movement of any part when I removed thumb pressure from the top of the clip. That was consistent. So, with the bolt pressed against the top round. I started tapping against various action parts with a small brass gunsmith hammer. Nothing happened until I tapped on the rear of the bottom of the magazine follower. When I tapped there, the bolt immediately slammed forward, chambering the top round. I tried that several times, and it was consistent.

Then I read through Julian Hatcher's book again, and came across a section where he describes wear on the follower and slide assembly, and how it can cause the cartrige to not be presented properly. I noticed there is considerable wear of my follower. He gives the specs, but I don't have any way to measure it.

So, this morning I am going to order a bullet guide, follower arm, and follower and slide assembly from Fulton Armory. All three of those parts will only cost a total of $22, so it's worth a try. I feel confident that you and I are on the right track here. I'll post the results of the parts replacement. Thanks for your reply.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Foote:
Mr. Rowe: Instead of going to bed like a sensible person I went down and fooled with this problem for a couple of hours. I may have stumbled on to something by a process of elimination. I ensured that all of the areas that needed lubrication (Plastilube) had it, including accelerator rub points, op rod catch sear, top of hammer, and--a first for me--op rod spring inside the tube. The latter seems to make things run more smoothly, which was nice but not critical. What I did notice was the reluctance of the bolt to close further was coincident with the shoulder of the top (first round to the right) round in the clip abutting the rib which tends to force it to the left or centerline. It is fairly obvious that getting the round past that point requires a considerable amount of force--more than to just start the round moving forward, and more than it needs once past that rib. The top of this rib in my rifle had a noticeable nick. I VERY carefully stoned that area to original contour and smoothed it, checking feeding constantly as I went. In the process making that top round feed required less and less of a 'bump' to the op rod handle, until mere insertion of the clip would allow the round to be completely chambered upon removal of my thumb from the top of the clip. This rifle has never done that before under any circumstances--so I think I am on to something here. I did some other minor things to encourage the process--polishing the lips of the clip and the cartridge cases--but I do not think that had any great effect. I will probably pursue this further, but as of this time I suspect that smoothing that rub area of those ribs will do more than any other single thing to make the rifle load properly. FWIW.

[/quote]
 
Sorry Alan, but I choose not to do that. There is no reason that it shouldn't be able to work correctly, particularly since every part of an M1 Garand is available.

Also, if some parts have worn to where they are causing this problem, then further wear may induce additional problems down the line.

BTW, I am older than the rifle -- barely. I was born in 1941, and it was made in 1944.

One of the reasons I purchased an M1 was for nostalgia purposes. As such, I'd like to have it work as the M1 rifles did that I shot in the service -- correctly. So, I have no desire to give up on troubleshooting this. See my reply to Robert regarding the next "attack" on the problems.

--Bob

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alan:
Bob:

An old M-1 rifle I shot in competition for a number of years acted the same way, sometimes. Once the first (top) round was chambered, no problems were experienced. Forget it, and enjoy your rifle, it might be almost as old as you are.[/quote]
 
Mr. Rowe: did some further work on the rifle, judiciously stoning selected areas, etc., and while not up to a 100% standard on autoloading I have a good 90% plus. Reread everything Kuhnhausen has to say on the subject and I still feel that he evades the issue to some extent (maybe he never solved it to his satisfaction either???). In the end I think we are still dealing with a cumulative wear thing here--there are about 15 variables to juggle. Just out of curiosity I checked a number of other rifles. I have two 1950s mfr rifles, an IH and H&R, pretty well fresh from rebuilds back then and set aside till now. The parts in both show very little wear--as a matter of fact they look almost new. The IH needs the op rod 'bump' but the H&R loads like chain lightning.

When in doubt it's always well to replace the feed mechanism parts, but it's pretty hard to turn the odometer back to zero on a fifty year old rifle. However I am not done yet...

------------------
 
Well. the parts I obtained and tried didn't solve the problem. Very disappointing.

First, I have tried six different bullet guides, and they all result in the M1 acting the same. These included the original one, a new one that I purchased from Fulton Armory, and four that Chuck Santose loaned me. I measured the height of the hump on the nose of the bullet guides -- from the top of the hump to the other side of the nose directly opposite the hump. Those measurements were as follows:

CS #1: 0.169"
CS #2: 0.173"
CS #3: 0.183"
CS #4: 0.1835"
Orig: 0.185"
New: 0.183"

With any of these bullet guides, the M1 operating rod catch disengages as soon as the clip is inserted all the way and the clip latch engages. At that point (thumb pressure still applied to clip), the bolt moves forward until it contacts the first round in the magazine and stops. The top round moves forward just a little -- about 1/16" or so. When thumb pressure is removed, absolutely nothing happens. I have tried this with the rifle assembled, and with the stock removed -- behaves the same either way.

With the stock removed and the rifle in the above condition, tapping the rear of the bottom of the magazine follower will cause the bolt to continue forward and chamber the top round. There is no problem when I then repeatedly rack the op rod handle and manually feed the rounds through the rifle -- this part works good with the stock on of off. The clip ejects with the last round.

The tilt test works fine. If the operating rod follower and operating rod spring are removed, the operating rod and bolt will easily slide from full battery to full recoil without any hint of friction. It will do this with the stock on or off.

I thought that the magazine follower might be worn. So I replaced the magazine follower assembly (includes follower slide) and the magazine follower arm with new parts that I purchased from Fulton Armory. No help -- the M1 still operates the same way.

I sure am *not* an M1 expert or a gunsmith, but this does not appear to be a timing problem. Rather, it appears to be a problem involving too much friction, or incorrect position of parts.

When the bolt releases upon clip insertion, the bolt moves forward and contacts the base of the top round, causing the round to move forward slightly. The bolt stops when the beginning of the shoulder of the top round contacts the little bump on the inside of the receiver -- I'm talking about the bump that is designed to move the front of the round over toward the center of the receiver so that it will be in line with the chamber as it continues forward.

With the bolt stuck in that position, nothing happens (no movement of any parts) when I remove thumb pressure from the clip. That part bothers me, because it is at that point that the bolt is supposed to slam forward and chamber the top round. After removing thumb pressure, I can get the bolt to continue forward using one of two methods. (1) I can tap the operating rod handle with the heel of my right hand. This will always cause the bolt to continue forward. or (2) I can pull the bolt all the way back and then smartly release it. It usually takes 2 or 3 times, with the top round going forward a little more each time, before the bolt finally goes forward. With either method, the bolt appears to finally slam forward once the shoulder of the top round is past the receiver bump I mentioned above. BTW, the rifle acts the same way, regardless of whether the top round in the clip is on the right side or the left side. I have closely examined the receiver bumps on either side of the receiver, and I can neither see nor feel any burrs on them.

It's almost like there were a two-part problem here:

First, the friction of the top round is not being overcome by the force of the operating rod spring. Is it possible that both the original spring and the new replacement spring are under-powered? If I try to find an "extra power" op rod spring, will that require a slightly heavier powder charge to avoid short stroking?

Second, there is the fact that nothing moves when I release thumb pressure on the clip. Obviously, something should move, even if just a little. If you could remove the stock from your correctly functioning M1, and insert a clip and tell me what action part(s) move when thumb pressure is removed from the clip, I sure would appreciate it.

Thanks for putting up with my whining about this problem! (g)

--Bob Rowe
 
I think that I've solved the problem. I recently got two replies on the Firearms Forum. One guy asked if I had tried several clips, thinking that the clip might the problem. The other guy, having corresponded with me about my problem, took his M1 to the range and tried different things. His M1 was doine the same as mine at first. Then, he found that it would work correctly if he "smartly" shoved the clip in, using a hard continuous motion, and them immediately got his thumb off of the clip (and the top round).

After I read that second post, I tried it -- forcefully inserting the clip and letting go quickly. (This with dummy rounds.) It didn't work, at first. I just couldn't seem to jam the clip all the way down in one, smooth motion. Granted, these hands are almost 60 years old, but still...I'm a pretty big boy.

Then I thought of the post asking if I had tried different clips. I had, but it got me to thinking... I have two batches of clips. Some clips came from CMP ammo (LC 69) that I had fired. Another batch of clips came from a box of 70 or so clips that I bought through mail order. I noticed that all of these clips had a dull finish on them -- sort of like after Parkerizing, but before the residue is cleaned off of the metal.

Then I remembered that I had previously noticed that one of my clips was nice and shiney. It was almost like old blued metal, rather than Parkerized metal. So I rummaged aaround and found that clip and loaded the dummy rounds in it.

Amazing!!! I could shove that clip down smartly, get my thumb off quickly, and the bolt automatically chambered the first round, just like it was supposed to. I then tried a couple of other clips, but they didn't work. THen I took one of the ones that wouldn't work and scrubbed the hell out of it with a bronze brush and CLP. Then I sprayed it clean with brake cleaner, loaded the dummy rounds in it, and now it works, too. With the two clips that work, I can insert the clips properly with the butt of the rifle against my hip. I put all of the old parts back in the rifle, and it still works. So, it looks like the problem is caused by age-weakened hands that can't shove in the Parkerized clips fast enough, but can shove them in OK if the clips are smooth.

So, next week, I'm going to get a small wire wheel for my Dremel tool and see if I can fix up a bunch of clips to work.

Thanks to all who have helped me with this problem!!

Also, tell me if this sounds right: If you push the clip in slowly, the bolt will trip when the clip engages and hits bottom. If your thumb is still on the clip (and therefore on the top round), the bolt then stops and doesn't have enough enertia to continue chambering the round. If, instead, you shove the clip in smartly and remove your thumb smartly, your thumb is off of the top round by the time the bolt hits it, so the bolt still hss the enertia to chamber the round. Sound reasonable?

Thanks again.

--Bob Rowe
 
Bob - I've been following your travails with a great deal of interest. Thanks for posting them!

Your latest question is also interesting...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BobRowe:

Also, tell me if this sounds right: If you push the clip in slowly, the bolt will trip when the clip engages and hits bottom. If your thumb is still on the clip (and therefore on the top round), the bolt then stops and doesn't have enough enertia to continue chambering the round. If, instead, you shove the clip in smartly and remove your thumb smartly, your thumb is off of the top round by the time the bolt hits it, so the bolt still hss the enertia to chamber the round. Sound reasonable?
[/quote]

I have my Garand out and have been using dummy rounds and a parkerized clip. Rather than your operation, I push the clip in slowly until it latches and maintain thumb pressure. The bolt moves forward just behind the top round and stops. Remove my thumb (smartly!) and the bolt strips the round off the clip and chambers it.

I have noticed that the dummy rounds don't work as smoothly with my rifle as good old M2 ball. Sometimes it hesitates - one time I had to assist.

What kind of dummy rounds are you using? Mine appear to have laquered steel cases with round nose soft point bullets. NOT what the Garand was designed to fire! They also fit more tightly in the clip.

I don't see any reason why your rifle shouldn't work properly with parkerized clips. However, if you've found some clips that it likes, I'd suggest you've reached a point of diminishing returns and by all means use them.

Cliff
 
Cliff,

Actually, your description of how your M1 works is the way that it is supposed to work! I think the problem with mine is that when I push it in slowly until the clip latches and the bolt releases, the bolt doesn't stop just behind the top round, like yours does. My bolt goes forward until it pushes the top round forward about 1/16" and then stops. Then, when I release my thumb, nothing happens.

I would really appreciate it if you would do me a favor. Take the stock off of your rifle, and then insert a clip the way you normally do. While you're still maintaining thumb pressure after the clip latches, look closely at the action parts (operating rod catch, magazine follower, follower arm, etc. While you're looking at the action parts, release thumb pressure. See if you can see what action parts move that cause the bolt to move the rest of the way forward. Thanks.

Regarding the dummy rounds -- they're my own dummy rounds. They're just like my reloads, except they have no powder or primer in them. They're sized, decapped, trimmed, chamfered, and bullet (150 gr FMJ-BT) seated with a slight crimp in the cannelure.

Thanks for the reply.

--Bob


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cliff:
I have my Garand out and have been using dummy rounds and a parkerized clip. Rather than your operation, I push the clip in slowly until it latches and maintain thumb pressure. The bolt moves forward just behind the top round and stops. Remove my thumb (smartly!) and the bolt strips the round off the clip and chambers it.

I have noticed that the dummy rounds don't work as smoothly with my rifle as good old M2 ball. Sometimes it hesitates - one time I had to assist.

What kind of dummy rounds are you using? Mine appear to have laquered steel cases with round nose soft point bullets. NOT what the Garand was designed to fire! They also fit more tightly in the clip.

I don't see any reason why your rifle shouldn't work properly with parkerized clips. However, if you've found some clips that it likes, I'd suggest you've reached a point of diminishing returns and by all means use them.

Cliff

[/B][/quote]
 
I'm a long way from my copy of "Hell, I Was There", so my memory might be off a bit. Anyhow, Keith mentioned that when he was working with the early Garands, it was considered important to load the clip such that the top round was to the left. (IIRC) He gave an explanation and a solution--but you're gonna have to find your own copy of his book. :) (You oughta have one, anyway.)

As a kid, I was told of the "M1 thumb", so "smartly" has been a way of life--I've never had the problem of slow-loading...

FWIW, Art
 
Hi guys, I just bought an M1, and I haven't shot it yet. Thanks for the thread, very informative! Now when I load this thing, I won't lose my thumb if I keep pressure on the top round and release it "smartly"? That's what I've been told, but I have no first hand experience.
 
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