M-16A1 vs M-16A2

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Jake 98c/11b

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I already have my own bias but I am looking for the input of others. I am quite likely overlooking some aspects of the weapons design/capabilitys and I want you folks to point them out to me. What I am interested in is military use not sporting or law enforcment. My question is wich is the better infantry weapon and why, primarily I'm interested in the why. Second question, what can be done to improve it, for general infantry use that is.
 
Try www.ar15.com to lead you on the road to answer some questions. Very good site for the AR enthusiasts. Good Luck

[This message has been edited by Sea Bass (edited February 05, 2000).]
 
The federal government paid about $300 for each M16A2 in 1995.

I don't really see a whole lot of difference between the A1 and A2, other than the rear sight.
 
The primary differences between the A1 and A2 models are as follows, the rear sight(and reciever), the barrel contour, the rifling twist, the handguards, the stock(and length of pull), the pistol grip, the fire control system, and the flash hider.

There are several lesser differences, the lower reciever has reinforcements in key areas now, and a few dimensions have been changed, but that's the gist of it. IMHO, most of these changes have been for the better.

However, I think that the M16A1 was the better infantry weapon for several reasons, the biggest one being the rifling twist. The 1/7 twist of the A2 is great if you buy the current military thinking that wounding an enemy is preferable to killing him, as the heavier 62gr FMJ when stabilized at this higher twist makes for better penetration and less bullet tumbling.

However, bullet tumbling in the 1/12 twist A1 was what gave it the great wounding capabilities noted in Vietnam, and I think that outweighs any advantages gained with the heavier ammo. The other big bitch I have with the A2 is in the fire control system. (rant mode on)

I don't know who the pencil pushing, bean-counting REMF was that came up with the idea of the 3-round burst, but one thing I do know, he wasn't infantry. If you need full auto fire, you NEED FULL AUTO FIRE, and that's all there is to it. Training is what keeps the bursts short, or keeps the grunts on semi and squeezing them off. There might be places for cost-cutting measures in the military, but the M16 is not the place for them. (rant mode off)

The barrel and sights are debatable, I like the lighter weight and simpler system of the A1, but many do like the steadier feel and improved sights of the A2. I do like the larger 0-2 aperture of the A2 sight for close work and low light, and it wouldn't have been much work to install an A2 aperture in an A1 reciever and save about half a pound. My AR, in fact, is set up this way.

The stock, handguards, and grip are all better, I think, as I'm pretty tall and they fit me better. These are pretty much personal preference, except for the handguard, which is two identical pieces instead of two different ones(simplifies support). I have a sentimental preference for the triangular A1 handguards.

I guess this pretty well covers it, my e-mail's on here if you want to talk direct. Hope this helps.

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My brain's a hand grenade...catch. Ice-T, OG.

The M-16 is a damn fine weapon, but your best, your most lethal and effective weapon is between your ears. Ssgt Brown, Parris Island, 3rd Bn, H co. 1984.
 
artech, I agree with you on that tri-burst nonsense. When I was in Okinawa, I was stationed with some SeaBees (NMCB7) who said that they were issued the M16E2 that was semi/auto instead of the A2 semi/burst. What do you know about the E2 version?
 
Started with A1's and ended with A2's. I do like the A1 sights better and the furniture on the A2's better.

My experiance with the wounding effect of either bullet is minimal. I am not happy with the effects tht I witnessed, regardless of the bullet weight. May be better with JHPs but (duh) we did not have any.

BTW, the three round burst can be, er, broken if needed. Nice thing about being the CO CDR, you can experiment with your rifles. Took me and my armorer about ten minutes to figure it out. (OK - he figured it out and I stood by with a blank maintenance request and a ball point pen.)

The USMC originally came up with the three round burst idea.

Giz
 
The A2 model is void of auto fire. Troops in Vietnam blasted away with automatic fire from their A1's with little success. If you ask me, the replacement (burst fire/three round burst) is also a waste.

Automatic fire is best served by a squad automatic weapon such as the M249 or M60. The M-16 comes into it's own when the user engages targets with discriminating accuracy, not full-auto "rock and rolling".
 
I used both in the military, and I have to say I was MUCH more accurate with the A2. The added weight didn't bother me and I liked the longer buttstock. Was much easier to adjust the sights on the A2 of course. The lack of full auto was meaningless to me as an infantryman because we never took our guns off semi. The idea was to make every shot count...we had SAWs and M60s to provide full auto fire.
 
I Agree with PETE80 and RIKWRITER,
I was issued a A-1 in basic training at Fort Bening( why I don't know, the A-2's were more common). When I got to my regular duty station at Fort Drum NY. I was issued an A-2.
I much prefered the accuracy of the A-2. As soon as I got used to my A-2 I was made a SAW gunner.( because I was new).Remember, the M-16 is a BATTLE RIFLE, not a ASSAULT RIFLE. When sh#@ hits the fan, the 60's and the saws lay down the fire, and the riflemen "shoot-n-scoot".If it gets really Shi#@y, your no more than a call away from "ARTY" or those cowboys in the AH-64 or AH-1 gunships.And belive me, those boys love to tear stuff up! The M-16 works just fine on semi. It's but a very small part of the whole picture!
Calvin
" IM THE NRA! "
 
I prefer the A1 version because of the shorter overall length, the lighter weight, and the simpler sights, however, I can live with the A2 version. So long as either one is a Colt! Agree that SAWs and M60s are better for FA, actually, I never had a SAW available, I was in the preSAW Army. But the '60 was a keeper!

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o I raised my hand to eye level, like pointing a finger, and fired. Wild Bill Hickok
o If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts... Wild Bill Hickok
o 45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel!
BigG
o It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error. Justice Robert H. Jackson
o It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself. Tom Jefferson
o When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up. BigG
 
BigG,
The SAW is a great weapon,But I'll agree with you,The 60 is better! I'm only 175LBS.
and I had a hard time carrying the 60.I lugged a pig on an 18 mile road march once and thought I was gonna croak! In that case it dosen't matter what M-16 you have, just be thankful you have one!But in a defence, there is no position I'd rather be in than dug in with a pig! oh yea, my SAW did have one problem, it almost always had a 30rd. M-16 magazine sticking out the side!!Man did I go through the ammo!!!!
CALVIN
" IM THE NRA! "
 
I have some improvements.
Replace the silly gas tube with a piston system so propellant isn't blown into the action with every shot.
Replace the "T" charging handle with a simple recipracating handle protruding from the right side of the upper reciever. This eliminates the need for the seperate forward assist.
A1 or A2? A2, although I miss the regular full auto option.
 
The M16A1 is the better combat rifle. It is lighter, has better sights (I read that one of the features the Army liked about the A1 sights was that once they were battle sighted they were nearly impossible to get bumped or jarred out of adjustment), and is capable of full auto fire.

The M16A2 was designed to make it competetive at Camp Perry. Actual combat use wasn't really factored into the design. I guess we can say that the reinforcement in the lower receiver was a concession to combat use of the rifle.

The 1/12 twist of the M16A1 has nothing to do with the wounding capability of the M193 ball cartridge. Both the M193 (55 grain ball used in the M16 and M16A1) and M855 (62 grain ball used in the M16A2 and M4 and M4A1) have very similar wounding abilities at normal combat ranges. Dr. Martin L. Fackler of the International Wound Ballistics Association published a study of the Patterns of Military Rifle Bullets a few years back. This was based in large part on work he did for the Army in 1988. It's available online at http://www.fen.baynet.de/norberi.arnoldi/army/wound.html and also through the Firearms Tactical web site in the links section of TFL. These studies proved that both M193 and M855 produced almost identical wounds. The massive wounding effects are atrributed to the bullet breaking at the cannelure and the rear of the bullet fragmenting. These fragments then rupture the temporary wound channel creating a larger permanent wound cavity and a few smaller permanent wound channels. Both bullets perform this way at velocities of 2500 feet per second. They fragment more reliably at velocities above 2700 feet per second. The difference in twist rate is to stabilize the LONGER M855 bullet. The M855 was designed to increase penetration at longer ranges, but Dr. Facklers tests show that terminal performance for both rounds in flesh is nearly the same.

Proper training and SOPs eliminate the need for artifical methods of fire control such as burst devices. When i had a rifle platoon, I never had any problem with my soldiers running away on full auto. It's all in how they were trained. The burst device in the M16A2 is a cam type arrangement. When you first press the trigger when set on "Burst" you don't know if you're going to get 1, 2 or 3 rounds. It all depends on where the cam was when you place it on "Burst". You also get a different trigger pull with every press of the trigger depending on where the cam is. many military teams replace the A2 fire control parts with A1 on their competition weapons. Just so they get the same trigger pull every time.

The perfect M16 type battle rifle - the Canadian C7, A1 sights, A2 barrel and furniture and full auto selector.

Jeff
 
I'm Swiss, so I'm not an authority on M-16s. But
I suspect a 0-1-3-auto selector lever wouldn't
hurt the M-16. We have that on our SIG 550s.
 
Mussi, as I understand it, the US Special Forces M4 has the 0-1-3-auto selector, at least on some models. The regular troops get the 0-1-3.
 
pbash,
The US armed forces currently field the following versions of the M16 family:

M16 - This is the original rifle, no forward assist, safe-semi-auto selector, triangular handguards. Still a lot of them in the hands of the USAF.

M16A1 - As adopted by the Army in the early 60s. Basically the same as the M16 with the addition of the forward assist. A few active Army units and a lot of the USAR and Army National Guard still use them.

XM177 - 10" barreled M16 carbine with integral noise and flash suppressor, collapsible stock. Safe-semi-auto selector, no forward assist. Officially called a submachine gun by the military. The Air Force still has a few of these in service with Security Police units. They call it the GAU-5 (I think I'm correct on the Air Force nomenclature.

M16A2 - 1/7 twist barrel heavy at the front end, 800 meter click adjustable sights, reinforcement at the rear of the lower receiver. 5/8" longer buttstock, round handguards, finger swell on pistol grip, square front sight post, safe-semi-burst selector.

M16A3 - Identical to the M16A2 except safe-semi-auto selector. Produced for the Navy.

M16A4 - Identical to the M16A2 except has flattop upper receiver with removable carry handle.

M4 - Carbine version of M16A2. 14.5 1/7 twist barrel, 4 position collapsible stock, both fixed carry handle and flattop versions have been fielded.

M4A1 - Identical to the M4 except has safe-semi-auto selector and is only fielded in the flattop version. Army issue to Special Forces and Ranger units.

Since production started on the M16A2 procurement of M16A1 furniture was halted. you will see M16A1s with round handguards, longer buttstocks and A2 pistol grips.

Jeff
 
A1.
Its lighter.
They are about as accurate out to 150 meters. The A2 is a little better past that - but I dont think thats a liability.
A Short barreled A1 I think would be a better option at least for Light Infantry than an A2 do to the weight and the easy of handling. However I dont like the AR's gas system and bolt/chamber design. If that was improved - it would be just fine.
Even in the field - I rarely used the rock and roll selection. None of the other Grunts in my units did either. We carried about 180 rounds of ammo and that was it. If that sounds like a lot of shots for you lurkers out there - trust me - its not. Thats about 5 minutes of heavy combat. We strived for ammo conservation as much as we could... Even with the selector switch flipped all the way over, we did short bursts. Sustained fire was best left for the fellows with the M-60 "Hog Gunners".

I think you could take a platoon of Light I and arm them all with Scout Rifles and you would have an effective platoon without a loss of firepower. In fact - they could probably do some things a normal platoon couldnt. (dont ask me what - use your imagination) My point is that with a little fire discipline, you could be more effective. That said - The heavy A2 barrel doesnt do nothing for you but weigh you down.
In the light I you want something you can make dance in your hands - light and nimble. Your going to run and hide, sneak and assault... Jump over stuff, climb stuff... You got to be quick. A heavy rifle makes that more difficult. I know there isnt a huge difference... but in the field - every ounce counts. Thats why we went .223 from .308. Now that I went .308 from .223 I can see why that was done. Weight is an issue.

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I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!
 
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