Barnacle Brad
New member
A sobering story indeed. Thanks for sharing and I appreciate the courage to do so. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
Lucky To Be Alive
- Thread starter dkyser
- Start date
don't give up on reloading. but definitely buy two powder measures, one for rifle and one for pistol and always label what's it in with a little piece of masking tape. thanks for sharing. DONT leave powder in a hopper overnight, can never lead to good things. when you get more experienced, youll be able to tell what kind of powder your using jst by looking at it, well, at least varget between titegroup. I am surprised you could get the titegruop heavy enough for your load. sorry about your hand, and your gun.
send it back in for warranty work
send it back in for warranty work
As Nick CS stated techniques for avoiding screwups are the key. I started reloading about the time I was working as a lab tech in biology and chemistry at a local college. I was and still am extremely anal about technique because if I scewed up with the chemicals i could have taken out a building and who knows how many people.
You showing your oops is a good wake up call for all reloaders in the group but especially the new guys just starting out.
You showing your oops is a good wake up call for all reloaders in the group but especially the new guys just starting out.
Lucky, yes. And I hope you have a full recovery.
My particular method for not mixing pistol powders with rifle powders is to only have one pistol powder, Unique. Since it is the only flake powder I use, it is easy to recognize.
I finally felt comfortable enough a few years back to have a total of TWO ball rifle powders on hand, Power Pro 2000-MR and WC872. But the 2000-MR only ever got loaded into a powder hopper on a progressive press, and the 872 only ever got loaded into a PPM I use for single loading.
My only extruded powder for rifle is IMR4064, so that is an easy visual identification. When I was still reloading IMR7828 in magnum casings I was paranoid about not mixing up the 4064 with the 7828, but I mitigated that by only buying a pound of 7828 at at time and loading magnum shells in lots.
I'm probably more paranoid than most, but if my segregation techniques help out someone in the future then all is well.
Jimro
My particular method for not mixing pistol powders with rifle powders is to only have one pistol powder, Unique. Since it is the only flake powder I use, it is easy to recognize.
I finally felt comfortable enough a few years back to have a total of TWO ball rifle powders on hand, Power Pro 2000-MR and WC872. But the 2000-MR only ever got loaded into a powder hopper on a progressive press, and the 872 only ever got loaded into a PPM I use for single loading.
My only extruded powder for rifle is IMR4064, so that is an easy visual identification. When I was still reloading IMR7828 in magnum casings I was paranoid about not mixing up the 4064 with the 7828, but I mitigated that by only buying a pound of 7828 at at time and loading magnum shells in lots.
I'm probably more paranoid than most, but if my segregation techniques help out someone in the future then all is well.
Jimro
Man o man that could have been a LOT worse.Glad your not hurt any worse than you are. Still isn't a good thing, but the pain will eventually subside and the experience will last as a reminder.
I was loading some H-4350 on the top end for some .243 loads once. Then in a hurry to get things loaded up before openeing weekend so I could make sure I was dialed in, I grabbed up a jug of IMR-4350. I can tell you they are not the same.....I was lucky enough that all I ended up with was a sliver of the primer in my nose, and my left forarm. The action held tight and contained the case. The primer however was blown to other deminsions. My bolt also has a lasting reminder of it with a permanent ring etched into the face.
Like most here, and I am sure you in the future, I check and double check nowadays. If in doubt I simply pour it out and go on about my business. The back lawn is greener in some spots, but that is a small price to pay. A half full measures worth of powder isn't nearly as expensive as the what if's.
Feel better soon, I know that is a small comfort having had some pretty serious injuries to my own digits, but hey, it's still there and you CAN still feel it so it isn't as bad as it could be. Prayers for your recovery.
dkyser, I just read this this morning and man I feel bad for you. Like has been said, it could have been way worse. Hope you heal up and everything works right. Now I don't feel so bad for telling my family (politely of course) that I want to be left alone when I'm reloading. It took cahoonas to come on here and fess up. Get well soon and keep reloading, you have been enlightened.
snapshot762
New member
First I would like to wish you a speedy and full recovery. Second, I would like to thank you for posting this. I am new to reloading and have been vigilant about safety. Seeing this is a good reminder for us newbies in the reloading game what can happen with a simple slip up.
Best wishes getting well fast, comfortably both physically and mentally.
Have two friends that both had their match rifles blow on them. Both survived.
First one, top ranked shooter and Palma Team member, had a new Obermeyer barrel on his .308 Win. match rifle. He had tested it in a machine rest and it shot about 1/2 MOA at 600 yards; good enough for the Nationals. At Camp Perry a month later, his third shot from standing blew the barrel in the chamber area. He got some splinter wounds in his arm and minor metal embedding in his forehead. His sleeved Rem 700 action got ripped apart at its top. That barrel was one from the same lot that Obermeyer got from a steel mill. Obermeyer had 3 or 4 other customers with barrels from that lot that split after a few shots were fired. His records with barrel serial number/customer info led him to contact all those who got barrels from that lot. He got replacement ones from the mill and would rebarrel all customers' ones at no cost which I think was paid by the steel mill as part of their warranty standards. But this guy chose not to send his rifle back. He suffered the consequences.
Second one, a few years later, was a gunsmith and retail shop owner, former Remington field rep and 1964 NRA High Power Rifle Champion (shooting his Win. 70 match rifle). He had got some new Winchester ball powders and loaded some under Sierra 168's to test in his .308 Win match rifle he won the Nat'ls with. He sat down at 200 yards to get a zero, fired the first shot and it blew. Parts of brass and steel came back into his face causing quite a bit of damage. Shooting glasses saved his eyes, but not some teeth. His rifle looked much like the OP's picture shows. He was able to drive 25 miles to a hospital for emergency treatment. Later at home, he discovered he had used pistol powder instead of rifle powder. Canisters had different colors as Winchester packaged them. Both were side by side on his loading bench.
Have two friends that both had their match rifles blow on them. Both survived.
First one, top ranked shooter and Palma Team member, had a new Obermeyer barrel on his .308 Win. match rifle. He had tested it in a machine rest and it shot about 1/2 MOA at 600 yards; good enough for the Nationals. At Camp Perry a month later, his third shot from standing blew the barrel in the chamber area. He got some splinter wounds in his arm and minor metal embedding in his forehead. His sleeved Rem 700 action got ripped apart at its top. That barrel was one from the same lot that Obermeyer got from a steel mill. Obermeyer had 3 or 4 other customers with barrels from that lot that split after a few shots were fired. His records with barrel serial number/customer info led him to contact all those who got barrels from that lot. He got replacement ones from the mill and would rebarrel all customers' ones at no cost which I think was paid by the steel mill as part of their warranty standards. But this guy chose not to send his rifle back. He suffered the consequences.
Second one, a few years later, was a gunsmith and retail shop owner, former Remington field rep and 1964 NRA High Power Rifle Champion (shooting his Win. 70 match rifle). He had got some new Winchester ball powders and loaded some under Sierra 168's to test in his .308 Win match rifle he won the Nat'ls with. He sat down at 200 yards to get a zero, fired the first shot and it blew. Parts of brass and steel came back into his face causing quite a bit of damage. Shooting glasses saved his eyes, but not some teeth. His rifle looked much like the OP's picture shows. He was able to drive 25 miles to a hospital for emergency treatment. Later at home, he discovered he had used pistol powder instead of rifle powder. Canisters had different colors as Winchester packaged them. Both were side by side on his loading bench.
Thanks for sharing the experience. It really takes courage. Best wishes for speedy recovery.
Just curious. I have used varget, but never titegroup. Do they look alike? Varget is extruded as lots of other rifle powders. All pistol powders I have used are flakes, and of much lower density.
-TL
Just curious. I have used varget, but never titegroup. Do they look alike? Varget is extruded as lots of other rifle powders. All pistol powders I have used are flakes, and of much lower density.
-TL
1. Get well soon.
2. Nobody needs to beat you up over this. You've done that yourself the hard way. In your shoes, I know I'd be writing to Savage thanking them for an action that held together enough not to send the bolt slamming back into my brain, but that's just me. That being said, suggestions for the future:
3. Get thee to Wal-Mart and buy a small whiteboard to go above the loading bench. Before you start, write down the components including charge weight and COAL you are planning on using before you get them out. As you get them out, write the lot numbers as a double check. Put the powder bottle as close to in front of you as you can without it getting in the way. At the end, as you put the bottle away, write all the components again in a record book you should keep for the purpose. This way you will have a double check of your components. Then write a summary on a sticky label and put it on the ammo box. Triple check.
4. Powder storage needs a door and to be separate from the bench. If the only visible bottle is the one you are using, you are less likely to use the wrong one; it will be staring at you the whole time you are loading, and there will still be time to stop before something bad happens again.
Again, get well soon. I hope you keep all the use of your hand; having been on the doctor's side of stuff like this, I know how serious it can be. Nobody who reloads, however careless they are, deserves permanent disability.
2. Nobody needs to beat you up over this. You've done that yourself the hard way. In your shoes, I know I'd be writing to Savage thanking them for an action that held together enough not to send the bolt slamming back into my brain, but that's just me. That being said, suggestions for the future:
3. Get thee to Wal-Mart and buy a small whiteboard to go above the loading bench. Before you start, write down the components including charge weight and COAL you are planning on using before you get them out. As you get them out, write the lot numbers as a double check. Put the powder bottle as close to in front of you as you can without it getting in the way. At the end, as you put the bottle away, write all the components again in a record book you should keep for the purpose. This way you will have a double check of your components. Then write a summary on a sticky label and put it on the ammo box. Triple check.
4. Powder storage needs a door and to be separate from the bench. If the only visible bottle is the one you are using, you are less likely to use the wrong one; it will be staring at you the whole time you are loading, and there will still be time to stop before something bad happens again.
Again, get well soon. I hope you keep all the use of your hand; having been on the doctor's side of stuff like this, I know how serious it can be. Nobody who reloads, however careless they are, deserves permanent disability.
grubbylabs
New member
It's not the powder companies fault, as the OP stated, he made a mistake and now has a painful reminder to always use caustion. He like a man owned up to it.
Let it be a reminder to us all to slow down read, think, and take responsibility for our own mistakes.
Let it be a reminder to us all to slow down read, think, and take responsibility for our own mistakes.
[QUOTE tangolima]Thanks for sharing the experience. It really takes courage. Best wishes for speedy recovery.
Just curious. I have used varget, but never titegroup. Do they look alike? Varget is extruded as lots of other rifle powders. All pistol powders I have used are flakes, and of much lower density.
-TL[QUOTE
I use Titegroup exclusively and yes it is a very small flake powder. I was thinking, I'm glad I use a single stage press where I can keep an eye on everything. The press doesn't come into play in this incident, the OP stated that he dumped the wrong powder in the hopper. Just goes to show, no matter how experienced you are, mistakes..., and then, accidents can happen. Be safe.
Just curious. I have used varget, but never titegroup. Do they look alike? Varget is extruded as lots of other rifle powders. All pistol powders I have used are flakes, and of much lower density.
-TL[QUOTE
I use Titegroup exclusively and yes it is a very small flake powder. I was thinking, I'm glad I use a single stage press where I can keep an eye on everything. The press doesn't come into play in this incident, the OP stated that he dumped the wrong powder in the hopper. Just goes to show, no matter how experienced you are, mistakes..., and then, accidents can happen. Be safe.
I'm grateful it was not worse,and thankful you shared your lesson with us.
I agree that all I expect of Hogdon is to put the correct label on the powder.
Color coding?Come on!
No disrespect to the OP,this is a comment on the illusion of foolproofing.Back in the 1700's,the poet William Blake wrote"All attempts at foolproofing are folly,for the genius of the fool is infinite"
No,I'm not calling the OP a fool.All of us,myself included,have a little bit of fool within us.The trick is keeping him in check.
I'm not a chemist,but I have worked with a chem lab on the other side of the door.SOP was not only no extra chemicals on the bench,but each label was to be read aloud,twice.
A glance is too easy to see what you want to see.
I think we also have to give some credit to Savage.There is destructive testing and engineering involved in a catastrophic failure that does not seriously injure the shooter.
Do you reckon you'll have a flinch to get over?
I agree that all I expect of Hogdon is to put the correct label on the powder.
Color coding?Come on!
No disrespect to the OP,this is a comment on the illusion of foolproofing.Back in the 1700's,the poet William Blake wrote"All attempts at foolproofing are folly,for the genius of the fool is infinite"
No,I'm not calling the OP a fool.All of us,myself included,have a little bit of fool within us.The trick is keeping him in check.
I'm not a chemist,but I have worked with a chem lab on the other side of the door.SOP was not only no extra chemicals on the bench,but each label was to be read aloud,twice.
A glance is too easy to see what you want to see.
I think we also have to give some credit to Savage.There is destructive testing and engineering involved in a catastrophic failure that does not seriously injure the shooter.
Do you reckon you'll have a flinch to get over?
As said above, pure folly. Handloaders use many, many shotgun powders... for loading handgun rounds. Wholly appropriate and doesn't just "work", it works fantastically well.
The handgun powders are the ones that must be watched. They are the fastest burning, the most dense. They pack the most energy -- the fast burning pistol powders are the ones that can wreck anything. If he had accidentally loaded up 9mm with Varget, even if he had to pound each charge forcibly in to the case, or even if he had loaded Varget up in to a huge piece of .44 Magnum brass, his biggest threat is a stuck bullet.
Agreed that this thread & his relaying the experience is a sobering reminder of what needs to be fully in the control of the handloader. But the very idea that something other than the handloader's own personal attention is needed to avoid this pretty much wastes the value of the thread in the first place.
We don't need help from the powders distributors in the same way that we don't need a sticker on the car door telling us not to slam our finger in it.
I have come close to making mistakes myself and like your experience it served as a reminder that reloading is unforgiving. I have to remind myself keep my head in the game, go slow, check everything and then recheck everything.
Thanks for the post and wishing you a speedy and complete recovery!
Thanks for the post and wishing you a speedy and complete recovery!