LTC in MASS... and legality question.

In MA you need an FID (firearm identification card) to own rifles/shotguns. You need a class-b to own small capacity handguns. A Class-A lets you carry concealed and own high capacity handguns/rifles.

http://www.goal.org/misc/faq/structure.pdf

Thanks news, going there now...

EDIT:

Wow... went there. Thanks for the link. I now realize that there are a lot of people in my shoes. I've contacted the good Mr. Cohen and am eagerly awaiting a reply. Thanks again for that link!!!
 
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I don't know the wording of the law but I understand also that there is considerable discretion available to the firearms officer who will issue the license. I am also in MA, and did not need to do that - I am guessing they judge by a lot of things in order to use this discretion. For the same reason it will vary a bit by town too.

At least for me, I don't find the gun ownership laws in MA real onerous... many states have gun laws that make them easier to obtain than a driver's license... not real typical by international standards, and doesn't seem real wise to me. A school chum of mine came to visit last month from Norway - he was in the service there and owns several guns and hunts as well. When I told him what I went through to get a gun here, he said "So what?". That's about how I feel. (Sure I'll get flamed on that by some, oh well).
 
The Enemy Within

"I don't know the wording of the law but I understand also that there is considerable discretion available to the firearms officer who will issue the license. "

So you don't even know the law, admit "that there is considerable discretion available, " yet think that a system based upon the arbitrary and capricious "discretion" of an individual licensing officer provides a fair and uniform system. Good work....... :rolleyes:

"At least for me, I don't find the gun ownership laws in MA real onerous..."

How delightful for you. I'm guessing you are either a hunter and/or shotgunner; they seem to manifest the same short-sighted obliviousness you do. For those of us who actually want handguns to carry, and expect a fair process from a cop who actually abides by the requirements of the licensing statute, your bland and admittedly ignorant assertion is neither realistic nor encouraging. :barf:
 
For me the reason is this...

School.

I found the school that was right for me. I'm attending the Boston Architectural Center. It's a long program, but I get to work full time and graduate with marketable experience and the ability to sit for my license test immediately. As soon as I'm out of school my fiance (by then wife) and I will be out. That's my justification.

But there's many good things about mass. And now that I'm here I can work for change from within, which is what all good citizens should do. I almost always vote republican. And I'm going to press my issue with the Police Chief... even if it ends up in court. I'll make as big a stink as possible and if enough racket is made the town selectmen (who are apparently already getting tired of him) may take action. I plan to keep all the people that need to know this info as informed as I can.

Just because it's hard to live somewhere, doesn't mean we should discount it.
 
Number 6: Noone who has even remotely known me has ever called me "...short-sighted, oblivious, ignorant..." or any of the other epithets you threw at me because I don't share your opinion. Actually, by people evaluating me in "real life", I have been called often enough "brilliant"... but of course, what would they know - they are not posters on an internet gun forum. :rolleyes: And no, wrong about that too - I am a handgunner. And if this process is so illogical and so difficult, why did I sail right through?
 
The only reason I didn't sail right through is because I'm not yet a gun club member and my police cheif (AGAINST THE LAW) decided that not being a member of one is a disqualifying factor.

As 6 has informed me the Quincy District Court ruled that not being a club member CAN NOT be a disqualifying factor. That is what I came here to discuss. This is what's upsetting to me. This is the treatment that I want to bring to everyones attention.

I feel like I'm being treated as a criminal. The cheif's treating me like I must prove myself worthy of owning a gun... not so, he has to prove that I'm NOT worthy of owning one. That's our 2a right.

Also, as I was recently rejected, my rejection letter was sent to the Criminal Systems History Board and to the Commissioner of Probation. Fantastic. Things on my record now that need not be there.

Maybe I'm over-reacting, but all this just burns me up!!!

Anyways, Caleb, you're correct, this should be an easy process for any law abiding citizen, however, due to the gross mis-conduct of my police cheif it is not. It varyies from town to town.
 
How?

"And I'm going to press my issue with the Police Chief... even if it ends up in court."

I'll bite - how?

You've already stated that you can't afford court.

You've already asked for legal advice from someone who misstated the law to you earlier.

You clearly have no idea of the burden of proof:

"The cheif's treating me like I must prove myself worthy of owning a gun... not so, he has to prove that I'm NOT worthy of owning one."

WRONG, wrong, wrong. You have it backwards. :rolleyes:

And now you claim you're going to "make as big a stink as possible..." This brings us to the recurring question, 'HOW do you plan to make this all happen?" :confused:
 
6,

You're really quite confrontational aren't you? No need to be so pejorative in the tone of your posts.

Okay, the only real question that you asked in your post is how am I going to do all of this.

First, as of right now, no I can't afford court (unless taking the PC to court is way less expensive than I thought). However, I'm exploring the options available to me. I've even already been in contact with a lawyer. Just 'cause I can't readily afford it doesn't mean that it can't be done now, or in the future when funds become available. I can also write letters to the selectmen and communicate my situation and the illegality of his actions (requiring a membership). I have also recently joined the NRA and GOAL and my support of those organizations go toward more logical gun laws, especially GOAL. Sure, that's a bit passive, but everything helps.

As far as me not understanding the burden of proof:
How about instead of just telling me I'm wrong please tell me why I am wrong and cite the law.

Also, when did I take bogus legal advice?

edit: "as big a stink as possible". I'll do everything I feasibly can. Court may not be there at this exact moment in time.
 
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Since you asked:

"Just 'cause I can't readily afford it doesn't mean that it can't be done now, or in the future when funds become available."

Wrong. You have NINETY days from the receipt of the denial letter in which to file an appeal of the decision. Are you expecting any imminent windfalls? If not, it seems you won't be appealing, your claims of action "in the future" notwithstanding.

"As far as me not understanding the burden of proof:
How about instead of just telling me I'm wrong please tell me why I am wrong and cite the law."

You are wrong because the Supreme Judicial Court SAYS you're wrong. Look up Stavis v. Carney, for starters. Read it and weep.....

"Also, when did I take bogus legal advice?"

When you asked specialist, who had just given you bogus information about the FLRB, to explain the appeals procedure to you. Need a refresher? Here:

"Now I do need to know how to make an appeal, so specialist, how do I go about doing just that??"

If you can't hack the answer, don't ask the question. :eek:
 
Read it and weep.....

Wow son, calm down. And thanks for answering my question. Perhaps a more effective and helpful way to address this would have been a few posts ago with, "sorry MidKnight, but due to XXX court case you're incorrect in that assumption".

If you can't hack the answer, don't ask the question.

What exactly does 'hacking an answer' entail? And why can't I?

That's all I wanted to hear, that specialist had led me astray. Which now is not actually astray because of the fact that I was denied. And, I never 'took legal advice' from him. No actions were taken. Plus, I'm here to learn because I'm new at this stuff. Nobody ever cut you some slack?

Wrong. You have NINETY days from the receipt of the denial letter in which to file an appeal of the decision.

Three months is a long time. I can make things happen. I'm not wrong as you so emphatically put it. Plus, I know I have niney days.

It really seems like you have no good will toward me or my cause at all, 6. Why is that? Your derogatory statements don't help me. And it seems that any information drug out of you is gotten out of you because you want to win some pissing contest about how right you are.

This should be a forum and a thread where other people can come and learn how to deal with the problems that we as MA citizens and shooters face. I do sincerely thank you for the court precidents and other information that you've given me, however. I hope that they prove useful, or else I've taken all of your crap for no reason.
 
Reality check

"That's all I wanted to hear, that specialist had led me astray. Which now is not actually astray because of the fact that I was denied. And, I never 'took legal advice' from him."

What nonsense. You were told that specialist misinformed you immediately after his erroneous post about appealing to the FLRB, which has NO jurisdiction over your situations.

Once denied, you immediately asked the mistaken source, specialist, for advice on how to take an appeal. For those of us with some familiarity with language and logic, that is indeed seeking legal advice.

The fact that you were actually denied changes nothing; the FLRB is still irrevelevent to your dilemma. Yet you claim that you were "not actually [led] astray." Wrong is wrong; grasp the concept.

"This should be a forum and a thread where other people can come and learn how to deal with the problems that we as MA citizens and shooters face."

So far; so good. Where you fail is the continuation of that thought - LEARNING and DEALING require correct information correctly applied. That is where you have demonstrably failed, by not listening to and/or following that correct advice.

You were told NOT to call the chief; but to write. You called; you were denied; you have no record of what was said. Good work.....

You were told that specialist had misinformed you about the FLRB; you then specifically ask him for more blinding insights regarding the appeals process. How do you say "slow learner?"

Now you claim that you weren't actually "astray" because you were denied, ignoring the fact that it changes nothing regarding the FLRB or your learned source's misinformation. Talk about TSTL..... :rolleyes:

"It really seems like you have no good will toward me or my cause at all, 6. Why is that?"

Because you've learned nothing; will almost certainly DO nothing; and, should you actually try, will probably blow it, making a bully look good. Clear enough for you?
 
6,

How do you say "slow learner?"

Very well may be that I'm a slow learner.

by not listening to and/or following that correct advice.

Yes, I called the Police Chief, that was a precurser to doing anything else. Where I come from people can sit down and talk about their differences. Now it's time to move onto the written stage. That's fine. I just didn't jump into an action that the chief might have taken as an insult. No harm in that.

What nonsense. You were told that specialist misinformed you immediately after his erroneous post about appealing to the FLRB, which has NO jurisdiction over your situations.

I thanked you immediately for the clarification, did I not? However, soon after that my situation changed. And the way I had read the posts made me understand that my next course of action was the FLRB.

The Firearms License Review Board's jurisdiction is over those license denials which are due to certain statutory disqualifiers. As you have no such disqualifiers and are being issued a license, there is nothing to appeal to the FLRB.

Help me understand, becaue I'm a slow learner. I was denied. Now, what is a 'statutory disqualifier'. I was denied for not having a clear purpose to my request. What kind of disqualifier is that. I'm not trying to be a smart alec, I'm truly confused.

My current understanding is that I have to go to the District Court to clear this up.

Because you've learned nothing; will almost certainly DO nothing; and, should you actually try, will probably blow it, making a bully look good. Clear enough for you?

That's exactly why I came to this board. I don't want to blow it. Yeah, I need some hand holding, I admit that. That's why I'm here. And if you actually cared one iota about the outcome and the way the cheif looks you would have offered to help me outright. Perhaps meet with me an lay out a strategy or something.

I'm not lawyer, and I've never had to deal with anything around the law before. I am currently trying to do the right thing. Apparently the only things I've done wrong are calling the chief on the phone (which I've already explained) and taking bad advice. Well, yeah I did. I misunderstood the information put in front of me. Perhaps if you didn't waste time with eye rollings smiley faces you could have averted that by giving me some CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms.
 
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