Loooking at some 22s for target and plinking

Online for .22lr runs $.13 per round for the cheapest.
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As I said, it's higher priced online at the moment and hard to find. Making permanent claims based on temporary conditions is silly. Yes, .22 is hard to find right now. It won't be forever and it's coming back in supply.

Brass is free - that's why it's called - reloading.
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Brass is only free if you have access to a range where folks leave an unlimited supply. Most folks buy brass. It's not free. Even so, I said "that's without including the brass", hence... the price I listed is with "free" brass.... and it's still more expensive.

Even at your claimed 1 cent per shot, that's fully 1/3rd the price of .22 ammo, all by itself. Just adding a primer makes it more expensive than .22

That's simply not true at all.
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It certainly is true for the VAST majority of reloaders. Look in the reloading forum. Tell me how many times someone asks what press to get for reloading 9mm and the response is "Get a Whack-a-mole!"

You're literally talking about the exception that proves the rule.

Most folks will spend $350 or more on equipment. No one who shoots more than very occasionally is going to be happy loading handgun rounds with a whack-a-mole kit. Personally, I consider it foolish in the extreme. You could work a part-time job for 3 hours a week and buy the ammo and be far ahead.

Don't assume that because you can find .22lr, locally that everyone can.
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I don't assume it, in fact I fully explained the whole situation. That price is from MidWayUSA, not local.
 
Sure, .22LR is hard to find right now but a number of brands are still available in 525 round packs for $20 or less.
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I would love to see it, and hope to see it again, but it can't be found at all here (small town on east coast of Florida). The temporary shortage is how old now? Two years? Three?

Not trying to pile on, Brian - I hope your optimism is ultimately proved correct, but as you acknowledged there are at least some places where things just aren't easing up perceptibly yet. Here there is not only no .22LR, but 9 mm shows up at normal prices only once in a while and is going for $.40 a round at the range. I don't consider that price gouging, because the only way they are going to keep it in stock is to sell it at a price that encourages some conservation. .380 ACP? Dreaming to see it at WalMart, $.50 a round and up at the range and gun shops. .45 is about the same as 9, other calibers more like .380, except that the supply of .40 seems to be pretty steady and the prices normal.

There are times I wonder if someone might not figure out a way to reload .22LR with some trick for the primer compound that I am too dumb to figure out.
 
It isn't like this is the first shortage we've created. Or second. Or third. They all end. This one will end too.

Whether or not it is still ongoing is irrelevant to the idea that 9mm can be loaded cheaper than .22lr Even if it could "right now", that's not always going to be true.

You should see the Gander Mountain that just reopened in Binghamton. I have literally never seen so much ammunition in one place. They've got an essentially unlimited supply of 9mm, 40SW, 45scp, .380acp and .38spl, along with .223. There's 1,000,000 rounds of .223 there if there's 100.
 
Don't assume that because you can find .22lr, locally that everyone can.

I don't assume it, in fact I fully explained the whole situation. That price is from MidWayUSA, not local.
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I'm not seeing where you said Midway.

I see where you said your local Gander Mountain - but - no reference to Midway.

Even so, I went to Midway USA and they show mixed availability or out of stock on nearly everything but the most expensive ($218.00 per 500) match .22ammo.

It certainly is true for the VAST majority of reloaders. Look in the reloading forum. Tell me how many times someone asks what press to get for reloading 9mm and the response is "Get a Whack-a-mole!"
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That's a pretty lame explanation.
Even if every single one of the 136,000 members here reloaded, that would only be a small fraction of the number of shooters/gun owners out there.

I'll counter that with the fact that the Lee Loader is still alive and well and selling in 2014.
http://www.titanreloading.com/presses/classic-lee-loader

"For almost 50 years, more shooters have chosen the famous Lee Loader for their first reloading tool than any other. They realize it is all they need for good, accurate ammunition. "

Sort of shots holes in your Whack a Mole foolishness...
 
I've been on the forum long enough that I no longer argue with those being intentionally obtuse. If you can't (won't) see my point, you never will. Others will see the rationale (facts) and not argue for arguments sake. Believe what you want, I'm done with this foolishness.
 
Your point?

You mean where you make up some BS about the VAST majority of reloader's not using Lee- then get called on it for being BS - so you duck out and call it foolish.

I don't see that as much of a point.


Oh well - have a nice life.
I'm not going to argue fact against your made up crapola.
 
Bricks for $20, for anyone and everyone who walks in the door? Man, that's 2004, or maybe 1994, not 2014.
The only stores that have any .22 in stock, are those that are priced so high that even the crazies don't want it. Otherwise, set up a tent, so you can be the first in line when the doors open on "Ammo Restocking Day".
The last brick I bought was $35, that was three or four years ago, and I snapped it up because I thought I might never see another one.
Yeah, the shelves are groaning with .40 S&W, 100rd "value packs", tagged $52!
Foolishness is believing that the "ammo shortage" is even close to being over.
 
Three or four years ago Rick?

The shortage is about 1 year and a few months old now.

Three years ago I was getting Blazer bricks for $16 with no buy limit... and this was a moderately sized gun and outdoor store in TN.
 
^^^ +1 Marine6680. I mail-ordered several thousand rounds in October of 2012, most of which consisted of $15 bulk packs; this stockpile got me through most of 2013. Many of the sellers were discounting at the time.

Also...
RickB said:
Foolishness is believing that the "ammo shortage" is even close to being over.
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This sort of thinking is prolonging it. :rolleyes: Although interest in shooting seems to be on the uptick, IMHO nothing about the inherent nature of the market has changed since 2012; we're in a classic herd-driven market bubble.

I believe that the shortage is being driven by two parties: hoarders and speculators. The second group encompasses the gun-show and GB "scalpers".

Once some of the hoarders begin to see the light at the end of the supply tunnel, they'll start to withdraw from the market.

Once the speculators realize this is occurring, they will start to dump their stock at reduced prices in a desperate attempt to recover their money. This will provoke an initial surge in demand once Joe & Jill Average realize they can buy .22LR again. However, once the initial surge ends, thence comes the glut. :)

I'm thinking July. :cool:
 
I want to let it go but now you're just making stuff up.:rolleyes:

BS about the VAST majority of reloader's not using Lee-
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When you say this, you look silly, because I never said it nor implied it. I said that most reloaders don't use the WHACK-A-MOLE kit. DO you really think that MOST reloaders DO use a Whack-A-Mole?

The Hornady LnL progressive has almost 200 reviews all by itself on MidWay. All the Lee Loaders COMBINED have 222 reviews. The Classic turret has 159 reviews. The kit with it has 63. Those 2 presses alone have more reviews than ALL the Lee Loaders COMBINED. Is that definitive? Nope, it's not, but it certainly doesn't suggest that MOST folks are using a Whack-A-Mole.

How many rounds you going to load in a week? You going to load 500 rounds a week, which is what an awful lot of folks shoot with their 22s and that's what we're supposedly replacing here. Right? How many hours to load 500 rounds with the Whacker? 10? 15?

Even if you personally do it, you think MOST people are going to? Few folks are going to replace 22LR shooting quantities (that IS what we're talking about here) with a Lee Loader.

Your price isn't even right. Most places sell the Lee Loader for close to $30 and that doesn't even come with the "rubber mallet".

I'm not going to argue fact
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You're certainly not, and you haven't. I said you can't load 9mm for less than 22LR under most any circumstances. The only thing you argued was the price of a press. Nothing there changes the price of components, which in and of themselves are virtually always going to be more expensive than 22 ammo.

How about this thread? No one in that thread claims under 9.5 cents per round and that's WITHOUT brass costs. There's 22 ammo available even now at 10, 11, 12 cents a round and that's HIGHER THAN NORMAL, typical prices are less than 1/2 that cost. It absolutely can be had for $20/500 or less and will eventually be common again. $20/500 is 4 cents a round. The POWDER in 9mm usually costs that much, and the PRIMER again that much!

These self-induced shortages don't last forever.
 
The small mom and pop stores are having supply issues... and walmart has never been a big stocker of ammo.

But the larger dedicated outdoor stores that carry firearms and ammo have plenty.

Academy Sports has their house brand in stock pretty often here at $12 a 50rd box of 9mm... They have other brands at 14-15.
 
It isn't like this is the first shortage we've created. Or second. Or third. They all end. This one will end too.

Whether or not it is still ongoing is irrelevant to the idea that 9mm can be loaded cheaper than .22lr Even if it could "right now", that's not always going to be true.
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The sooner it ends the better, but as I said earlier I see little easing in my locale. In my case, it is moot to argue whether reloading 9 mm is cheaper than buying new .22LR, because there is no .22LR at any price locally. If you buy it online you pay $.12 to $.15 a round and then pay shipping, and then you have some pretty expensive cheap ammo. I personally can't see paying that for .22LR. Reloading 9 mm is, right now right here, the cheapest way to keep shooting, and reloaded 9 mm will still be cheaper than store-bought 9 mm even after the shortage eases. I don't see the downside to reloading.
 
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I don't see the downside to reloading.
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There isn't one. Except that right now it's pretty much no easier to reload than it is to find 22 ammo. Components and powder are still like hen's teeth. That's slowly improving too, but just like 22 ammo, the product is rare and the prices tend to be high.

I absolutely recommend that anyone who shoots center-fire ammo should also reload. A lot of folks won't save money (in the near term) but the knowledge gained is invaluable.

Personally, I've spent more money on reloading and because of it than I would have otherwise spent on ammo for the rest of my life. That's no exaggeration either but I wouldn't trade it. It has opened the shooting hobby in ways I could have never imagined.
 
the knowledge gained is invaluable.
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I sure agree with that! I haven't reloaded my first cartridge yet and I have learned a lot from reading and studying the subject.

I was able to buy some powder (Unique) and some Winchester primers this week. Bullets don't seem to be so hard to come by, and I have been saving my brass. I am budgeting and saving for the press, dies, and accouterments and I should be ready to reload by the time I am out of ammo.

Unfortunately, I am down to around 700 rounds of .22LR, so I am still hoping that you are right about it being back on the shelf soon. I am not selling my .22LR guns, but I am hoping they don't have cobwebs by they time I can buy ammo for them again.

I've spent more money on reloading and because of it than I would have otherwise spent on ammo for the rest of my life.
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How about we keep that between us? If my wife reads that, I am toast.;)
 
Some more suggestions

With all the available guns, I have a Walther and a Sig Mosquito. Both shoot quite well. If I might recommend rifles, try a Marlin or a Colt M4. 22s are the shooting choice for practice and just plain fun.

Note, if possible you might want to look at getting a .22 that is made by the manufacturer of one of your other guns. If the two guns are similar in layout, using the .22 will be a less expensive option to practice while maintaining a familiar stance with your main gun.

Note 2: You can't go wrong with Ruger.
 
Cleaning Mark IIIs

There's no reason anyone should be without a Ruger Mark II or III. The trick is, don't try to clean it until it's broken in. By shooting a few hundred rounds, you can get it apart and together with very little problem. Years ago, I was at a gun store in northern Virginia. I knew the owner quite well and he used to work for Ruger in some capacity. One day a guy came in with a bag and a sheepish look on his face. He'd just bought a Ruger Standard Auto (Mark I, skinny 6-inch barrel) and had taken it apart before shooting it. The owner didn't have time to fool with it, but would fix it back up, he told the guy, in the next few days when he had the chance.

Since I wasn't doing anything at the time, I borrowed a rubber mallet and put it back together. But it was tight.

Since modern .22lr ammo in non-corrosive these days, most full size handguns and rifles can be lightly cleaned on the outside and stored without cleaning. A plinking rifle or pistol only needs to be disassembled about once or twice (if used a lot) a year. For inside, a toothbrush and some BreakFree will be fine.

I also like the Ruger Single-Six and the Smith 63 (a gem). The Mark III is an outstanding home defense pistol.
 
I've had a Mark II 22/45 since 2002 or so.

Love it.

Just finished the 'last' of my upgrades: Volquartsen target trigger, Vol Hammer bushing, Vol Sear [left stock Ruger hammer in]. Probably cost about $90 in parts/shipping for those parts, but they make a WORLD of difference!

Now, I have a light trigger that is around 3lbs and crisp, with very little take-up and no overtravel.

This is great for a range-only gun. It is fine for other purposes also: IF you have a LOT of presence of mind. This can become a 'hair trigger' situation if you are not careful.


I recently added a Buckmark Standard Plus to my 'stable' of toys.

I was AMAZED at how crisp the trigger was out of the box. So amazed I encourage a friend in your boat to get the Buckmark.

I've since done the 'haggis flip' [do a search and you'll find it: especially at rimfirecentral dot com], and now it has a 2lb 4oz trigger. Only part I bought was an adjustable trigger for it, and now I have a no-take-up, no overtravel crisp 2.25lb trigger.

Accuracy wise, they are about the same.


S&W Model 21 feels too clunky in my hands to recommend it. Also, I don't care for the mag release location: just odd for my hands.

I read the linked post by Aarond and thought it was well articulated, but I was wondering which Buckmark he used as a comparison point?

There are now 3 different grip profiles for the Buckmarks, with differences in the feel for all of them. I did like that he said the biggest difference would be the feel in the hand.

What I wanted to add, was what others have said: Ruger are great. However, a Ruger Mk Series Target model [I haven't felt the competition models for comparison] to have as smooth/crisp/light of a trigger as a Buckmark does without the need to spend any money will add $50 or more to the cost.

I also like the fact I can rebarrel the buckmark without going through a FFL and background check, as the barrel isn't part of the firearm from a serial number viewpoint, unlike the Rugers.

I own both and have to admit I love both. I will say that I like the buckmark in my hand better, but I like the Ruger's thumb safety better.
 
I greatly enjoy reloading but I have to say that the idea of reloading 9mm for a "comparable cost" to .22LR is entirely unrealistic.

Sure, .22LR is hard to find right now but a number of brands are still available in 525 round packs for $20 or less.

That's under 4 cents per round.


You're much more likely to be spending 3-5 times as much loading 9mm as buying 22LR.
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There's a great article in the current Dillon Blue Press about the economies of handloading 9mm vs. buying .22. Of course, the whole debate revolves around how available and how expensive ammo is. Handloading 9mm, without being extremely conscious of maximizing the benefits, costs ten cents to twelve cents per round.
While there may be a store, somewhere in the United States that has bricks of rimfire for $20, there's no place within 50 miles of where I live that anyone can walk into, and buy a brick for less than $50, and probably nor for less than $70.
CCI Stingers, which used to be my go-to, when they cost $6 per 100, are now $17 per hundred (that's the buy it now, today, price, not the pitch-a-tent-outside-Cabela's-the-night-before-ammo-is-restocked price), or about 50% more than handloaded 9mm!
Someone who wants to buy a rimfire gun for "cheap plinking" would be better served by spending that money on a handloading rig.
 
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