4runnerman
New member
oldman- I envy you already. man that must be fun. I stretch out to 1400 yards and that is a blast. I can't imagine 2 miles. Do you take a sip of coffee waiting for the --TING. 
Looking to get into long range target shooting. Caliber decision?
- Thread starter nhyrum
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This, could be a bad move (as in, a lot of wasted time and money) unless you know for certain it holds zero perfectly from it being on another rifle.
There's "inexpensive", and there's "cheap"- and fifty bucks, is definitely the latter.
You don't need a scope that tracks well (and for $50, guaranteed it will not)- but it must hold zero and not bounce around or you'll never get any reliable results.
On a scope like that, I'd never even touch the turret once I got near center of paper. It''ll never go back to the same spot, anyway. Just shoot for group size and don't worry about where on the paper they fall.
Best bet is to just get that SWFA...
Get a Wind meter, they are fairly reasonable in price. Don't need one of those fancy ballistic gismos.
That your spotting scope into the field, parking lot, golf course of what ever.
Look through your spotting scope and watch what the mirage does. Then compare it to the reading on your wind meter. With a bit of practice you can get a good idea of wind velocity via mirage.
Now keep your wind meter in your pocket as you go about your daily activities.
You'll notice flags waving, tree limbs moving, grass waving, etc. Make an estimate of the wind value, pull you wind meter out of your pocket and see what the wind is actually doing.
You can get a lot of good training on wind and mirage without ever firing a shot or going to the range.
Once you get the idea, then consider this. A wind meter tells you the value of the wind at the location of the wind meter. Mirage tells you the wind value at a location where you focus it. If possible go to a range that uses a flag pole. Put a range flag at the top of the pole. Then put another at head level, where you would normally use the wind meter. Now step back and see what the flags are doing. Often you'll see the flags blowing in different directions.
Remember, bullets don't go in a straight line. They ark up, and then fall back to the location of the zero. The wind effects the bullet most at mid to 2/3s distance between you and your target. That is the location you want to focus the spotting scope to read the wind.
What you never want to do is focus the scope beyond the target. I screwed up and did that at the NGMTU Coaches School. And I got to be the example of what not to do. The Instructors brought everyone to my firing point, pointing out my calls were reversed of everyone else. The reason was that by focusing the scope beyond the target, reverses mirage, therefore my calls.
Take a gander at this photo from the AMU regarding the winds effect of the bullet. I know lots of people are gonna chime in saying the most effect is closer to the firing point, or the target, or where ever else. I contend that, because the AMU beats everyone in Long Range, Across the Course, the International Sniper Competitions, everywhere, then they must know what they are talking about.
Another place to learn wind is scoring for a good team in a long range match.
Years ago I took my rifle team (AK NG) to 29 Palms for a 1000 yard match. In the team match we were squaded next to the AMU. I chose to score for the AMU team. You have to get close to the coach so you can compare scores. Being that close you can hear the Coach's calls. So you make your estimate of wind, listen to the coaches call, and see the impact. Compare and learn.
For info the AMU won that match using M14s, 308s, with a sore of 799/800. I learned something about wind that day.
That 50 dollar scope will only be until I get the swfa. Recently I have my eye on a primary arms scope. The only reason for the cheap one is so I can take the gun to the range the day I get the rifle home without too big a hit if I don't already have my scope. After I get the scope, I'll put the red dot on a pistol or give it to my brother in law or something
Pond James Pond
New member
It's pictures like that which make me feel a little bit more positive about doing the ironing...
It sounds like OP has made a choice and I wish him good luck with it.
I still hope to get into LR shooting one day, but with 300 being the limit through out most of the country, I'm not holding my breath.
I certainly didn't have abundant funds when I was buying my kit but lucky finds and good timing meant I could get a 550 Varmint, a bipod and a Burris XTR for relatively good money.
As the model suggests I shoot .308. I did agree with the earlier recommendation of this calibre for two reasons, though. Firstly, just having calibres that are better doesn't make the .308 bad. Simply not quite as good, and we've read that out to moderate distances there's not much in it. The second is that cost can be crippling and so a competent calibre that is affordable will result in greater competency in the long term through sheer trigger time.
Now if cost does not limit you (as seems to be the case) then go for it and don't look back.
Handloading meanwhile is highly recommended so good that you've found a means of doing so. I am by no means an expert reloader and am heavily limited in the components available to me. Despite this the difference certain load recipe's have made to my rifle's potential is staggering. I can only imagine what results I could get with a full complement of brands to choose from!
Thanks for the luck. I went with the 6.5 cm for a few reasons. One is that I want something my wife can shoot. Now she has only been shooting twice. Once we put 300 rounds through my ruger standard .22lr pistol, another was with her brother shooting about 5 rounds through his AR. I want something I can teach her the basics on, but really we'll learn together. The 6.5 ordering less recoil is ideal and since it will only ever aim at paper I don't care about energy out long, as long as its a true flier.
Another reason is I plan on reloading. Most the recommendations I read said 308 for factory ammo, 6.5 if reloading.
Third. I like to do things differently. 308 is normal. I told my shooting buddy I was getting a 6.5 creedmoor and he hadn't heard of it, but said creedmoor used to be really nice target rifles a while back, so he could see it being a nice target round
Another reason is I plan on reloading. Most the recommendations I read said 308 for factory ammo, 6.5 if reloading.
Third. I like to do things differently. 308 is normal. I told my shooting buddy I was getting a 6.5 creedmoor and he hadn't heard of it, but said creedmoor used to be really nice target rifles a while back, so he could see it being a nice target round
Good choice on the 6.5 Creedmoor.
That's the round my wife chose. I sent her to Gunwerk's LRP School where they had her shooting the 6.5 CM. She broke her back in the sand box, having three rods between her shoulder blades means she cant take much recoil.
I bought her the Ruger PR in 6.5 and she shoots the heck out of it. I did put a brake on it, making it better in the recoil department.
The 6.5 CM is undoubtedly one of the best long range Target Rounds out there but don't discount it for a hunting round.
With proper bullets, (such as the Berger 140 gr. VLD Hunting bullets its more then capable for Elk beyond 600 yards, well beyond the range of normal elk hunting.
I reload but Hornady does make excellent factory ammo for the 6.5.
Careful though, you start playing with your wife's 6.5 you're gonna want one.
That's the round my wife chose. I sent her to Gunwerk's LRP School where they had her shooting the 6.5 CM. She broke her back in the sand box, having three rods between her shoulder blades means she cant take much recoil.
I bought her the Ruger PR in 6.5 and she shoots the heck out of it. I did put a brake on it, making it better in the recoil department.
The 6.5 CM is undoubtedly one of the best long range Target Rounds out there but don't discount it for a hunting round.
With proper bullets, (such as the Berger 140 gr. VLD Hunting bullets its more then capable for Elk beyond 600 yards, well beyond the range of normal elk hunting.
I reload but Hornady does make excellent factory ammo for the 6.5.
Careful though, you start playing with your wife's 6.5 you're gonna want one.
"Funny thing about bedding- In certain cases it will make your gun shoot worse. Glass bedding is usually only if you have accuracy issues, if you don't why waste time bedding?." ^^^this is a quote from 4runnerman^^^
A Bedding job only makes a gun shoot worse if it is not done CORRECTLY. And that is the ONLY reason it will make your rifle shoot worse.
Any rifle that I care about accuracy with gets a bedding job before I start load development(a decision made from experience). A proper bedding job insures that it is not the culprit of a load that does not work, inconsistencies, those unexplainable flyers. Maybe your gun shoots in the upper .3's with the occasional .5xx or upper .4's. And you then say your gun shoots better than I can. Well maybe it can't. Maybe you are seeing the inconsistencies caused by not having your rifle bedded. Maybe those .3's could be .2's. You don't know you are getting the most out of your rifle without a proper bedding job. I've been doing this too long and wasted enough time to not bed my rifles. And yes this even goes for the rifles with the aluminum bedding blocks. Receivers don't match the aluminum bedding block perfect and definitely not as good as a one that's been bedded. Anyways just wanted to straighten out the comment made by 4runnerman. And for anybody contemplating bedding a rifle...
A Bedding job only makes a gun shoot worse if it is not done CORRECTLY. And that is the ONLY reason it will make your rifle shoot worse.
Any rifle that I care about accuracy with gets a bedding job before I start load development(a decision made from experience). A proper bedding job insures that it is not the culprit of a load that does not work, inconsistencies, those unexplainable flyers. Maybe your gun shoots in the upper .3's with the occasional .5xx or upper .4's. And you then say your gun shoots better than I can. Well maybe it can't. Maybe you are seeing the inconsistencies caused by not having your rifle bedded. Maybe those .3's could be .2's. You don't know you are getting the most out of your rifle without a proper bedding job. I've been doing this too long and wasted enough time to not bed my rifles. And yes this even goes for the rifles with the aluminum bedding blocks. Receivers don't match the aluminum bedding block perfect and definitely not as good as a one that's been bedded. Anyways just wanted to straighten out the comment made by 4runnerman. And for anybody contemplating bedding a rifle...
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Thanks.
Well next weekend I'll be going to pick up the girl... I already have 100 rounds, a bipod, power, primers and a scope on its way. Hopefully it gets here before we make the 6hr drive to get it(with my luck, it will come while we're gone)
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Well next weekend I'll be going to pick up the girl... I already have 100 rounds, a bipod, power, primers and a scope on its way. Hopefully it gets here before we make the 6hr drive to get it(with my luck, it will come while we're gone)
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4runnerman
New member
Darn Wind- Have to disagree with you here.
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Long range target shooting is a relative thing.
If you have purchased a large magnum rifle chambered in .300 Win mag or .338 Lapua for example, then you must find a place to shoot that offers at least 500 yards for you to shoot at what would be considered to be "long range"... For rifles in those chamberings, 800 to one thousand yards would be better.
This get expensive and inconvenient very quickly, and stays that way. Assuming that money is no object, the opportunities to shoot for most people are still going to be few and far between.
On the other hand, if you go the other way and consider a rimfire cartridge, then "long range" shooting can be pursued at most any shooting rage at considerably less expense, and you'll get to do a whole lot more of it.
I'm just saying...
On the wind-drift illustration shown earlier:
I was amused at how the military 'experts' had the bullet going perfectly straight for a while, then suddenly curving in a consistent radius, then going perfectly straight again until it hit the target.
Too bad these 'experts' have never been introduced to the concept of a parabolic curve, or at least how to draw one.
If you have purchased a large magnum rifle chambered in .300 Win mag or .338 Lapua for example, then you must find a place to shoot that offers at least 500 yards for you to shoot at what would be considered to be "long range"... For rifles in those chamberings, 800 to one thousand yards would be better.
This get expensive and inconvenient very quickly, and stays that way. Assuming that money is no object, the opportunities to shoot for most people are still going to be few and far between.
On the other hand, if you go the other way and consider a rimfire cartridge, then "long range" shooting can be pursued at most any shooting rage at considerably less expense, and you'll get to do a whole lot more of it.
I'm just saying...
On the wind-drift illustration shown earlier:
I was amused at how the military 'experts' had the bullet going perfectly straight for a while, then suddenly curving in a consistent radius, then going perfectly straight again until it hit the target.
Too bad these 'experts' have never been introduced to the concept of a parabolic curve, or at least how to draw one.
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I have a local range that goes to 1000, possibly 1500. I'm getting a 6.5 creedmoor. As i am a novice shooter, right now 300 is far, so I'm going to work out to distance.
On wind drift (and parabolic curves) they were probably "experts" in the practical application, and don't ding them on not being able to draw a parabolic curve. It took me two years of college with a calculus class every semester before I begun to understand what makes them different from exponential curves
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On wind drift (and parabolic curves) they were probably "experts" in the practical application, and don't ding them on not being able to draw a parabolic curve. It took me two years of college with a calculus class every semester before I begun to understand what makes them different from exponential curves
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Actually...
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that 300 really isn't "far"- at least not for a 6.5, unless there's a hurricane blowing.
It's mostly dial and shoot at that range and even a bit further on most days.
With my .260, it's only 1.5 minutes of windage at 300 with a full-value, 10 mph wind. Even at 600, it's only 3.4 minutes. On a reasonably calm day- if you're an accurate shooter (and looking at the target- you seem to have a good start) you'll find it's not too difficult out to about 600 or so...
Once you get some experience, start heading out when the wind is blowing a bit. When the wind exceeds your skill level, best to stay home. You want to push it and gain experience- but at least in my case I know that if it's blowing 15-20, and gusty- the conditions at the range we shoot at are too difficult for 1000 yards and we'd just be wasting a $200 range trip.
Yeah, I'm not too terrified about 300 now. Mostly that my scope doesn't have tactical turrets. So I have to find a way to mark the dial under the cap. Either that or use the pre marked holdover marks. Or wait for the mail to find the one they lost
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