Looking for that perfect 1700 yard gun.

jboyette1984,

You might want to get in touch with Rocky Mountain professional guides. Were you to email a few, I'm sure they'll respond with expert advice.

My self-imposed yardage limit is 400 yards. Before I'd take such a shot on big game, conditions would have to be absolutely perfect. And I will assess to determine whether I could close distance. I'd much rather shoot big game at a hundred yards than farther. But that will depend upon conditions. Hunting open meadows is a lot different than hunting in thick cover.

Before an elk hunt a couple seasons past, I practiced shooting at distance. My guide asked me how far I felt comfortable shooting bull elk. I responded, "400 yards." He said that he liked to limit shots to 250 yards. I shot a huge bull at 130 yards. The deal was I was out of breath from chasing that monster for at least 2 hours up and down high ridges of the Rockies. I had to wait a minute to catch my breath. When I was able to hold steady, I put a 160 grain Partition through its heart.

Buy yourself a bona fide elk rifle. Do not buy a rifle because you like it and intend to make it an elk rifle. Cartridges from .270 Win on up will work. But when you start getting in to the .300 magnum realm, you'll find that they are not fun to bench shoot, which is where accuracy and confidence are created.

I intend to hunt everything from here on out with my .270 Win. It is a lot lighter. Believe me, when you get higher that 7000', toilet paper is heavy. Moreover, a bull elk won't know whether a bullet from a .270 Win or a mega magnum destroyed its heart.

On my last elk hunt, I used a Featherweight in .308 Win.

My advice is to buy the best quality bolt action rifle you can afford, top it with the best quality scope you can afford, and assure its chambered for a cartridge suitable for elk. 400 yards is a long way in the Rockies.

Oh yeah, if your shot is poor, you will be doing far more tracking than hunting, not to mention wasting your tag on an animal that you might shoot and can't recover.

You can gain very useful elk hunting knowledge here: www.eastmans.com

Make sure you read this: http://blog.eastmans.com/long-range-shooting-whats-your-intent/
 
"...still enough energy to take down elk sized game..." That'd be nothing you'd want to hunt with. Including the .408 CheyTac. Energy's there, but with a 300 yard zero, out of a 27 pound, 55",CheyTac M-200, a 400 grain bullet drops a bit over 15 FEET at 1,000 yards. 1700 yards, if you do the arithmetic, is over half again that distance. At $130 per 20(about $6.50 per shot) with a solid copper bullet.
 
Many hunting organizations such as Boone & Crockett have condemned long range game sniping. I wouldn't doubt that it becomes illegal if it could be enforceable. At sniping range, there is too great a risk of wounding.

Along with many others, I do not consider game sniping hunting or a sport. Such snipers are intentionally commingled with legitimate hunters thus giving us portraying us poorly.

I just read a "news" article that called poachers in Tennessee "hunters". They were not hunters. They were criminals. The publication source intentionally referred to the criminals as "hunters" in furtherance of an ulterior agenda. Poachers are not hunters. They are criminals.

"News" sources intentionally choose adjectives carefully in order to propagandize. Such sources will describe Marco Rubio as conservative. He is not conservative. He is neoconservative. But he's described as conservative in order to propagandize voters in to voting for a liberal, which is what neocons are.
 
Personally, as the years pass, my shooting distance on deer has dropped below 300 yards. I don't hunt for antlers, but more for meat, so long distance shooting is generally avoided. As much as is possible, I want to place the bullet carefully, and closer is better.

That's for deer. For coyotes and pigs, 400 yards is 'in range' and so is 500 yards if I have a clean shot on a standing pig or coyote. Unfortunately, standing still isn't something the varmints do that much.

Would I, under any circumstances, shoot at a deer (or elk or moose) beyond 500 yards? I won't say I'd never do it, but it's extremely unlikely. Further, if I was sitting around the campfire with someone that remarked that he planned to shoot a game animal at 1000 yards or more, I'd move to another campfire.
 
I smell the distinct odor of a troll....

If not, I wholeheartedly agree with 99% of the comments made here.

Farthest I have shot and hit targets was 600m, in the US Army and that's plenty far. I haven't shot that distance in 20 years, nor do I intend to in the future. I have no need to shoot that distance because I hunt in the woods. Plus, the longest shooting range available to me is 200yds. And I seldom shoot at that distance because that's not the range I am working with when taking game.

I don't believe that anyone has any business shooting at any game at 1700 yards. Leave targets at those ranges to artillery...
 
No response form the OP, should just close this.

I'm sure he went to another forum to get the response he needs.
 
Go buy a GOOD spotting scope and setup a 1700 yard target. Look at it under a variety of conditions at the magnification you're going to have to use for 1700 yards. Take your time. Critically evaluate the target and the image.
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No. Get some good glass, and set up a target at an unknown range between 700 and 1700.

Getting the wind wrong will end up with a miss, but then so will getting the range wrong, by as little at 10 or 20 yards.

And getting the range and wind balls on, but the density altitude wrong will also end up with a miss.

The output from your ballistic program probably doesn't match reality, so even if you get all the parameters spot on you will still probably miss.

Shooting at a game animal at that range is really dumb.
 
Sorry guys I look at like this as don't force your hunting ethics on me, and I won't force mine on you. Let's face it hunting ethics are as varied as religion if not even more so.

The question was not about his hunting ethics but about capability of caliber.

I am sure some of you will want to hang me out to dry but that is fine. But under stand, yes, I am a long range shooter but an archery hunter, because shooting game with a rifle is just way too easy to do for me, but putting an arrow into the bread basket at 15 yards is a challenge. Not because of the distance of the shot but trying to get that close is the difficulty. Because I do get that close to my game do I prstelize that every hunter needs to only shoot game at 15 yards and in, no. Because I understand this is my set of ethics and not yours.

Just like I may be LDS and will not consume poison like alcohol does not mean I will look down my nose at those who do. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Pot stirred.

The guy has only participated in two threads, both of which he started.

One discusses scope choice for "Close range .338 Lapua" and the other is about hunting elk at "1700 yards".


I believe you have gotten your daily dose of cave-dweller.
 
Sorry guys I look at like this as don't force your hunting ethics on me, and I won't force mine on you. Let's face it hunting ethics are as varied as religion if not even more so.

The question was not about his hunting ethics but about capability of caliber.
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really.gif


There is no caliber capable of what he is asking. The .338 Lapua drops 20 inches ever 10 yards at that range, and has about 19 inches of drift per 1 mile per hour of wind.

You want to shoot something at that range, go to Montana and shoot P-dogs, that way when you miss you will only kick up dirt, not maybe cripple an elk.

Anyone who thinks such a shot is worth even discussing must have learned everything they know about shooting from Hollywood or video games.
 
emcon5 said:
There is no caliber capable of what he is asking. The .338 Lapua drops 20 inches ever 10 yards at that range, and has about 19 inches of drift per 1 mile per hour of wind.
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Sure there are a bunch of cartridges capable of killing elk at 1700 yards, the OP mentioned three that can do it easily. All the reasons you mentioned aren't the issue, the issues with such a long shot are accurately reading the wind and ranging the animal. The last issue is the human factor, and those three issues will make or break the shot.

The longest range confirmed kill by a sniper is 2500 meters with the .338 Lapua. The cartridge and equipment is rarely the problem, it's the shooter. The kill zone on an elk is roughly 2.5 time larger than he average white tail, that is still a mighty small target at 1700 yards.
 
think!!!

Hey, everybody realizes I hope that the OP is talking about a shot at a big game animal at what amounts to a chip shot of a mile.

Not worth further time or consideration in my book.
 
You mentioned having a Savage in 338 Lapua in a different topic...

Any reason you aren't seeing how far you can shoot with that before making a decision on a new gun?
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^^^This^^^ Screams troll status
 
Now, y'all are just not being fair.

When I hunt prairie dogs at 1500 yards with my trapdoor .45-70 carbine, I find it works very well: the trajectory being what it is at that range, if the varmint ducks down into his hole, the bullet is coming down at about a 45 degree angle and it just follows him in. On top of that, in case I need to take a second shot, I have enough time to get another round loaded in the trapdoor by the time the first one hits.

: ) =
 
A good bunch of years ago, I was talking to a gunsmith/hunter acquaintance who worked at a LSG store, and he was mounting a scope on somebody's rifle behind the counter. He was getting this rifle ready for an elk hunt by that certain customer, and we started talking elk hunting. Our conversation finally came to the question that he asked me, and it's something I never forgot. He said, "Can you hit a basketball every time at 100 yards?" I told him that my rifle was sure capable of doing that, and that I felt that I was capable of operating my rifle as such. Then he said, "If you can do that, you'll be able to make one-shot kills on an elk every time." He didn't need to say where to hold before breaking the shot. He was a savvy man with lots of experience with guns and hunting, and I always enjoyed talking to him. From what he knew, and how he asked me that question, I knew he meant; could I do that at any range I tried to kill an elk? So, on this long range shooting stuff, and we'll take it to the limit of the OP, could you (or anyone for that matter) hit a basketball every time at 1700 yards? Just wondering...
 
The longest range confirmed kill by a sniper is 2500 meters with the .338 Lapua.
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OK, but shooting a enemy at that range and shooting a game animal are completely different. If you wound the enemy, you still usually take him out of the fight. If you wound an elk, he still probably dies, just not right away, and you most likely never see him again, until you find his coyote eaten carcass a few weeks later.

And before you say."but-but-but-bloodtrail", have you ever looked at a spot through binos a mile away, then tried to find the exact spot? Plus, even the .338 Lapua is down to about .357 magnum energy levels at that range, any hunting bullet is going to be below the designed expansion velocity, so there probably won't be much of a hole, and maybe not an exit hole.


OP, could you (or anyone for that matter) hit a basketball every time at and unknown range between 800 and 1700 yards?
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Fixed it for you. At that range, reading the range and atmospheric conditions is almost important as reading the wind. Even if you have a perfect zero, and can hit the basketball every time at you home range, if the elk is at a different elevation than your home range, and uphill or downhill, or even if the barometric pressure is different, it changes your point of impact.

Now, there may be people out there capable of making a first shot, cold barrel 1700 yard hit on an elk's vitals, but if you are asking about it on a web forum, you are not that person.
 
Not sure what was fixed for me, as I was "just wondering" if "anyone for that matter" could hit a basketball every time at 1700 yards. I didn't mention anything longer or shorter than that distance, nor anything about a particular rifle or caliber, nor atmospheric or elevation conditions. And just to clear anything up regarding me doing that at 1700 yards? No, I'm not that person.

I stated in an earlier post what I figured my personal limitations were when shooting at game animals. Even then, I'd only shoot when all conditions permitted taking that 300 yard shot, and most generally with my '06.

All this being typed out and said here, I do have some experience with long range shooting, which includes targets from 250 yards, out to 1000 yards. It's the B.P.C.R. game, and it's a lot of fun, and the steel targets are quite a bit bigger than basketballs. Still, if you want to hit them, and my shooting buddies and I like to hit as many as we can in a match, it's as any other shooting discipline; you need an accurate rifle, good, hand crafted ammo (black powder and cast bullets), a good spotter, lots of practice, and all the luck you can find when doping the wind. Did I say a good spotter? I believe I did. All this with a Soule tang sight and a globe aperture front sight with a built in level. I also know this; one point off horizontally or vertically on your sight setting, and you could easily miss that life-sized iron buffalo at 1000 yards. Yeah, it's quite a bit bigger than a basketball, but most of the time I do alright on the buffalo. BTW, my buddies are all good spotters; I try to be, too.
 
emcon5 said:
OK, but shooting a enemy at that range and shooting a game animal are completely different. If you wound the enemy, you still usually take him out of the fight. If you wound an elk, he still probably dies, just not right away, and you most likely never see him again, until you find his coyote eaten carcass a few weeks later.

And before you say."but-but-but-bloodtrail", have you ever looked at a spot through binos a mile away, then tried to find the exact spot? Plus, even the .338 Lapua is down to about .357 magnum energy levels at that range, any hunting bullet is going to be below the designed expansion velocity, so there probably won't be much of a hole, and maybe not an exit hole.
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Obviously you never read my first post in this thread. I neither condone nor condemn long range hunting. Like I stated in that post, I imagine by the time the OP learned to shoot 1700 yards effectively, he'd probably give up on the idea of killing elk at 1700 yards.

Let us talk about finding a spot a mile away after you made the shot, since that seems to be your first concern. I said you're not going to be taking on a shot of this kind hunting without the use of a spotter. With a spotter you can pinpoint a spot a mile away, and if you have good two way communication you can find that spot where you shot pretty easily. I don't know anyone who takes long range shooting seriously that ever practices without the use of a spotter.

Bullet selection is very important at long range shooting. Standard Cup and Core bullets usually do better in this arena than solid copper bullets. If you're just shooting paper any bullet will do, but if you're shooting game at long range you'll want a bullet with a thinner copper jacket and a soft lead core. That coupled with heavy for caliber bullets that most long range hunters use, gives you a much larger velocity window for the bullet to work in.

One thing you need to realize as well that slow moving bullets often out penetrate faster moving bullets. Bullet expansion is often what stops the bullet from making and exit. A 300 grain bullet moving at 1100 fps may be at .357 magnum energy levels but it'll far out penetrate any bullet fired from a .357 mag. More than likely you will get a complete pass through of the animal on a long shot as long as it doesn't hit any heavy bone.
 
taylor,

This is hunting, not playing military sniper. We're hunting real big game animals. We have ethical responsibility to assure quick, humane kills. A wounded big game animal is one gut-wrenching sight. I never want to see another.

I have used spotters when elk hunting. They were part of my guide's fee. While it was a rut bull elk hunt which made finding them a lot easier not to mention thrilling, the spotters' jobs were to locate shooter bulls. They used binos only. My guide's job was to get me close enough for a quick kill. He disdained long range shots. He didn't want me to have to shoot beyond 250 yards. He was darn good at his job. He got me to within 130 yards of a monster bull.
 
I have never even considered shooting targets a mile away. It would be a waste of time and ammo. I'm a hunter, not a target shooter. After I sight in my rifle -or assure that it's sighted in- I'll fire a few rounds at steel targets as far away as the range has them stationed, usually 250 yards, maybe 300. When I can hit them with every shot -they're much smaller than a big game animal's vitals- I'm good-to-go.

It really bothers me to walk up on wounded big game animals that are fighting to escape. It plays evil with my mind. I can remember them more vividly than my good shots where I've walked up to dead big game animals. Then we can discuss tracking I've done when my hunting buddies made bad shots at reasonable distances for the cartridges they were using. In both instances, my hunting buddies became physically ill because we weren't able to locate wounded animals. Wounding big game animals is very bad news. I've read accounts of hunters going back for days trying to locate big game they've wounded.

I will stop hunting to help a stranger track wounded game. We have ethical responsibility to big game animals and hunting laws.

If I'm drawn for desert big horn, I will practice, practice, practice ad infinitum. I would not want to waste a once-in-a-lifetime tag on a wounded ram that I won't be able to recover. I will want my guide to get me as close to a ram as possible. I'd be good for a bigger tip were he to get me within a hundred yards.
 
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