Looking for info for a "Deep Cover" 9mm

1

1911Ford

New member
I have never been a big 9mm fan but I am now seeing the value for one. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or experiences with any 9mm compacts.

The 3 main keys to this gun for me would be:
1. Reliability
2. Size
3. Durability

I have just really started to do some research on this and have been looking at the Kel-Tech, Kahr and Taurus.

Would like to get something thinner than the Glock 26.

Thank you.
 
My Kel-Tec P11 has never been a problem, shooting fine from the start )probaly approaching 2000 rounds now), but I did do a 'fluff and buff' as recommended on the KTOG user's board. You will get stories all the way from it being the very reliable to it's a piecs of junk. I would suggest that you read the posts on the users board and make up your own mind. Remember that it is also available as the P40 in 40S&W if you want a real small pocket cannon. I have only shot my P40 once since picking it up recently to beat the CA ban and it was disappointing in the number of failures to feed, but I think that polishing the contacting parts, ramp, etc a little more and putting a couple hundred rounds through it will solve the problem. Kel-Tec probably has one of the most lenient and complete warranties in the business, especially considering the price. I have never heard of them refusing to fix or replace a gun that had been modified (tuned) by the owner or other. The techs at Kel-Tec are very helpful and will normally give you good turn-a-round if you have a problem. My P11 and P32 both have not needed anything fixed by them so I do not have the personal experience. The main question is 'can you feel comfortable with a $200 gun if it runs good for you, but does take some tuning to get there'? Seems like some owners cannot if they have some problems in reliability out of the box. You might also want to check Jack Fusilier's page as he does tuning and nickle plating of Kel-Tecs at a very reasonable price if he isn't swamped with other work. He reports 10,000 rounds in a P32 w/o any problems and has many more than that through some P11s. You might check with him too as a source for a melted gun with reliablilty package and plated slide at a very reasonable price also as I think that he used to supply them. I can't think of a smaller, lighter gun of comparable calibers and capacitys available even if you spend twice as much. It is your nickle and your safety and peace of mind. Good luck on your decision.
 
I recently purchased the P9 (polymer) after looking at the Kel-Tec P32, SiG 232 and 85 UL Taurus. I wanted a small and relatively light handgun for concealed carry/backup. The P9 is lighter than the SIG, conceals better than the 85 and has 7+1 rounds of 9MM versus .32 ACP in the Kel-Tec. Even though I find the large grips on a 92FS comfortable - the small grips of the P9 feel great and it is easy to control and accurate! Only downside is the 7+1 capacity and that you can easily forget that you are carrying it. Oh, and reassembling the recoil rod/spring is not an easy chore.

I understand you can have the grip shaved down to the size of the MK9 and it will accept the MK9 mags as well.

Take a look and a test drive if you can.
 
I shot my P9 (kahr) today. I'm really unhappy with it. I've shot over 200 rounds before this with no problems but today the slide stop lever was locking the slide open on full magazines every other shot. This was with two different magazines and two brands of 115gr FMJ. I'm very unimpressed. I suspect the mags which let bullets flop out of the magazine easily are letting the bullets slide forward and up as the feed and triggering the slide stop. I think I'll sell it and get a mini 9mm glock.


shiro
 
IMO you can't go wrong with the Kel-Tec. I researched this issue a lot before I bought mine, and, especially for the price, it can't be beat.
 
I don't know how you feel about weight, but you did mention durability. It's tough to beat the all-steel Kahr K series guns, or the value priced E model, if you can find one. Though I personally did not have any reliability problems with the P9, it's obvious that several on this board have. Apparently, once the gun has received the slide lock spring correction, it's good-to-go. In any case, the P just did not fit my hand as well as the E. Since the gun is holstered, or in a waistpack, I did not find it to be a bother.
 
Glock 26: Chunky, short, durable, reliable, heavy-ish, lotsa bullets.
Kahr K9/MK9: Slim, heavy, reliable.
Kel-Tec: Nicer than you'd think, ugly as homemade sin, light.
Taurus Millennium: Light, field strip/reassembly known to cause nervous breakdowns, good warranty, Worst Trigger Champion-Pocket 9 Division.
Colt Pocket Nine: Nice, slim, semi-mythical.
SIG P-239: Need big pockets, it's a SIG.

Just some random input... ;)
 
THanks for the input and please keep it coming. Right now I think I am leaning more towards the Kahr MP9 or the Kel-Tech. Only thing about the Kel-Tech it seems that it will need work as soon as I buy it. According to the whole "Fluff&Buff" thing. If I did not think that the Kel-Tech would not be very reliable then it would probably be my first choice.

I also wish Seacamp made a 9mm. I like this gun but I don't think I want to step down to a .380. They also sound like they are hard to find.
 
AMT backup is very small, double action pistol used for concealment. Havne't shot one myself but it looks like it could fit the bill for you.

One thing I have heard though is that the AMT AutoMag II is a POJ. Don't know about the other AMT models.
 
Fluff and Buff

All I did was take mine out of the box and start shooting it. The F+B seems easy enough, but many people have reliability out of the box, and skip it. Mine is in the 96XXX range, so maybe they've done something at the factory to make this procedure less essential?
 
Regarding the Sig P239, it's a fine gun, but way too big for what 1911Ford is looking for. I have 3 Kahrs, MK9 stainless elite, K9 stainless elite, and K40. I highly recommend them. Good guns -- accurate, reliable, and THIN. Very nice trigger pull, long but smooth. The trigger does have a longer reset than a Glock, but doesn't have that nasty, crunchy sproing that Glock's have.

The MK9 will fit in the front pocket of my jeans using a pocket holster. Glock 26/27 are fine guns, but just too thick for me to conceal in the same fashion.

Get the elite model if you get an MK9 -- it has a slightly shorter trigger pull.

M1911
 
Recently looked at the Kahr and quickly walked away.Rarely have i seen a handgun i like less.Probably to inexpensive for your taste,but i'd sure like to know how that new Talon 9mm shoots(from an actual owner-not a price discriminator)!:)
 
glock 26- too thick
kahr p9- too heavy

if you really want the best, you can look for the original mini-auto, the ASP - a chopped and channeled smith m39 (DOD used to issue them to CID,:rolleyes: can you believe it!) the other mini that stands out above the rest is tim lafrance's 9mm NOVA - a small, light, reliable and accurrate chopped and channeled Star BKM (semi-production last i checked)

if you're looking at current production guns, i like the kel-tec p11 for DOA or the heritage stealth :cool: for SA gas-retarded blowback. both are often overlooked because of their low prices. IHO a case of getting more than you pay for.:D
 
Wow... LOTS a missed shots out there today!!!

SKS - AMT is a TERRRIBLE hunka junk! I speak from first hand ownership experience! Please never buy one!

9mmepiphany - the Kahr P9 is only 16oz... the Kahr K9 is sometimes considered too heavy.

1911 - Kahr doesn't (yet) make an MP9. I wish they did. You have the P9 (my personal carry pistol)in polymer standard size, which is about the size of a Walther PPK/S. Then there's the MK9 (my wife's favorite carry piece), all steel, smallest of all the 9mm's but a bit heavy.
Shiro - Sorry to hear about your issue. Check out your slide stop lever... if the post does NOT spin freely on the lever, then it needs to be replaced with one that does. Contact Kahr and they'll send you a new one no questions asked. You should have no problems after that.

As for my .02 on which gun for 1911, I say that if Glock is too thick (it was for me too) then the Taurus will be equally bad.
The Kahr P9 (lightest), MK9(smallest), or Kel-Tec P11 (somewhere inbetween, and cheaper) are at the top of the list for READILY available, with lots of accessories and stuff available. I LOVE my Kahr P9...
 
The best sub-compact 9mm on the market is the Glock 26.

Here is why? It's accurate, relaible, and easily available used for $395.

Tamara did a great job with the following additions:

Kahrs are nice but too heavy with an alarmingly long trigger pull. I've seen too many poorly machined slides and barrels and lots of folks complaining about their Kahrs. And I'm not supporting the Moonies.

Kel Tec make some great products. Sub-9 carbine and P-32 yes but the P-11(sp?) requires too much home gunsmithing. Question on the its reliability.

Taurus Millennium: Made in Brazil but sold through Florida. Crappy trigger.

Colt Pocket Nine: Who'se going to service it. Grittiest trigger for the money. And it's a Colt! Why support those sucka wanna-be Klintonians!

Sig P-239: With that serrated trigger hammer, you better have a good holster because it bites people. Its grip was chooped too short so too many people can't get a good grip to accurately shoot the little bugger. Same problem with the Kahr MK series.

Yeah the Glock 26 is a tad think but it always goes pop, the BG will fall, and you can use Glock 19 hi-caps in a pinch to get 16 rounds of Blakc Talons on board. Can any of the other subcompacts do that? Don't think so.

Sometimes thicker is better. Da judge.
 
Re: Pocket Nine service - Just call Colt their service dept. is alive and well. They replaced a broken ejector on my Mustang last summer - for no charge. They are also making mags; Brownell got a shipment last December. As for customizing, SM&A at http://www.colt380.com can do quite a bit. I think it's the gun the Kahr MK9 wanted to be (regardless of who thought of it first).

-- Chuck
 
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