Looking for facts

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Rev Dr

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I just went back read the stickies on posting in this section of the forum. Don't think I'm out of bounds, but if I am moderators please delete)

Hello I don't post much but like to read around when I get the time. Usually just check on the revolvers, rifle and hunting sections. But this past week I'm looking for help in a political argument with coworkers and thought this might be good place to gain some info. Often argue politics at work, usually end up agreeing to disagree, try to keep things courteous and friendly, a little humor can smooth over differences. But I was just given some "info" that has me a little riled up. I did a little googling to see if I can't disprove it, but so far am not finding what I'm looking for. Everything I find seems a liberal source and one fox news video I find a bunch of places won't let me hear the sound. I'm not trying to start an argument, I just want to know if this is true. I'm not a fan of our current President, but I found this bothersome and wanted to find it was not true.

A BBC Radio 4 investigation sheds new light on a major subject that has received little historical attention, the conspiracy on behalf of a group of influential powerbrokers, led by Prescott Bush, to overthrow FDR and implement a fascist dictatorship in the U.S. based around the ideology of Mussolini and Hitler.
In 1933, Marine Corps Maj.-Gen. Smedley Butler was approached by a wealthy and secretive group of industrialists and bankers, including Prescott Bush the current President's grandfather, who asked him to command a 500,000 strong rogue army of veterans that would help stage a coup to topple then President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
According to the BBC, the plotters intended to impose a fascist takeover and "Adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression."
The conspirators were operating under the umbrella of a front group called the American Liberty League, which included many families that are still household names today, including Heinz, Colgate, Birds Eye and General Motors.
Butler played along with the clique to determine who was involved but later blew the whistle and identified the ringleaders in testimony given to the House Committee on un-American Activities.
However, the Committee refused to even question any of the individuals named by Butler and his testimony was omitted from the record, leading to charges that they were involved in covering the matter up, and the majority of the media blackballed the story.

In 1936, William Dodd, the U.S. Ambassador to Germany, wrote a letter to President Roosevelt in which he stated,
"A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime.... A prominent executive of one of the largest corporations, told me point blank that he would be ready to take definite action to bring fascism into America if President Roosevelt continued his progressive policies. Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there. Propagandists for fascist groups try to dismiss the fascist scare. We should be aware of the symptoms. When industrialists ignore laws designed for social and economic progress they will seek recourse to a fascist state when the institutions of our government compel them to comply with the provisions."
The proven record of Prescott Bush's involvement in financing the Nazi war machine dovetails with the fact that he was part of a criminal cabal that actively sought to impose a fascist coup in America.
Prescott did not succeed but many would argue that two generations down the line the mission has all but been accomplished.
In his documentary film Martial Law, Alex Jones interviews John Buchanan, who was instrumental in uncovering the documents tying Prescott Bush to the financing of the Third Reich. Watch a clip above. The subject is also covered in Alex's upcoming film, End Game, which includes rare video of Smedley Butler's testimony.
 
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I sense Irony. Because Dodd later became a Senator and blessed us with the GCA of 1968 which is basically an English version of the Nazi gun laws.

One book published on the subject is "Gateway to Tyranny".
 
I would have to see the actual BBC report and Butler's actual testimony. Otherwise it falls in to the bottomless pit of internet infomation which can be none, some, but hardly ever all true.
 
I sense Irony. Because Dodd later became a Senator and blessed us with the GCA of 1968 which is basically an English version of the Nazi gun laws.
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You sure you are talking about the same Dodd? The author of the '68 GCA was Senator Thomas J. Dodd (D-CT), not William Dodd.
 
I would have to see the actual BBC report and Butler's actual testimony. Otherwise it falls in to the bottomless pit of internet infomation which can be none, some, but hardly ever all true.
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No, it doesn't...not unless you world is completely limited to that magic typewriter in front of you. It is a reference to factual information that exists in these weird things called documentaries, books and libraries. The only difference is it actually takes effort and a desire to know the facts to find it.

If you fail to ever see it that doesn't make it less factual. It just means you did not make the effort.

Don't become an internet zombie that disregards anything that doesn't have it's own dot.com because that type of lazy mentality is so easy for the powers that be to exploit. This whole I don't believe anything anyone tells me attitude that so many internet people adopt throws away the greatest source of learning and information we have ever had as a species...personal experience. It also makes it to where a govt can make people not be able to unify as long as they can manage to control the media since everyone will just sit back and say "prove it" when people try to open their eyes.
 
Here's another piece I found. Seems like I'd have to go to DC to check it out first hand myself? I wish I could get the fox news video to work--the address is, in case anyone else can hear what they say.

I dunno what to think here. Is it legal to make stuff up like this?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/fox-breaking-news-bush-family--nazi-whitehouse-coup/212030412

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html


Bush-Nazi Link - Absolute Confirmation


Interview with John Buchanan



I've been an investigative reporter and a journalist for 35 years. I've
worked in every major media market in the United States, and I've written
for more than a one-hundred newspapers and magazines nationally and
internationally.

So last September 17th I became the first journalist in US history to go to
the US National Archives and the Library of Congress and poor over the
thousands of pages of documents in both places to prove beyond a shadow of a
doubt or any refutation of the facts that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of
George W. Bush, and George Herbert Walker—his maternal great-grandfather—for
whom his daddy is named were Nazi traitors to the country who should have
been tried
for treason.

Two weeks ago, in early August, a major world newspaper, The Guardian of
London, finally got on the story internationally and they flew a renowned
reporter of there's named Duncan Campbell over to Washington to take me back
to the Archives and the Library of Congress so they could verify that these
explosive documents were real and that I didn't have forged copies.

[How Bush's granfather helped Hitler's rise to Power - The Guardian of
London]

Prescott Bush was the grandfather of George W. Bush and the father of George
Herbert Walker Bush, and George Herbert Walker Bush is named for his
father-in-law, George Herbert Walker.

Prescott Bush graduated from Yale in 1917 and was in Skull & Bones with E.
Roland Harriman who was the younger brother of W. Averill Harriman. The Bush
family really had nothing going. They were essentially social climbers, and
opportunistic people.

[Skull & Bones - CBS News]

At the time Prescott Bush met Dorothy Walker, he was a tire salesman. And
George Herbert Walker—as all fathers do when their daughter is going to
marry someone—said in his heart that it's not an appropriate thing socially
that my daughter marry a tire salesman.

So he brought Prescott Bush first into Brown Brothers Harriman, and then
Union Banking Corporation.

In actually, it was anything but a bank. It was essentially a Nazi
money-laundering operation that had a lot of tentacles into a lot of
different other businesses. They owned a shipping line called Hamburg
American Line for example. Which was the first Nazi front business ceased,
although the line was no longer operational in 1942 .

In the early 1930s it transported Nazi Spies into the US, and then their
promotional ads offered cash rewards to any Americans who would go back [to
Germany] on Hamburg American Lines and proselytize for Hitler.

Eight months after the US had entered the war, the New York Herald Tribune
ran a front page article, Hitlers “angel” has $3,000,000 in US Bank. . .and
it caused a major scandal and just rocked the world of politics.

Brown Brothers Harriman, which George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush were
affiliated with and partners in, worked with IG Farben which operated
Auschwitz.

Prescott Bush. . .he did a number of things that were not only anti-American
but were pro-Hitler, and he did all that he could to proselytize for Hitler
and the rise of his Third Reich, because the largest client Fritz Thyssen,
of his patron W. Averill Harriman, dictated what kind of behavior he would
practice to enhance his own career.

So he [Prescott Bush] was put on the board of directors for Union Banking
Corporation, and he was also a shareholder in Union Banking Corporation
along with E. Roland Harriman.

What's interesting about what the documents show, is that they clearly state
that all of the shareholders were phantom shareholders for Fritz Thyssen and
did his bidding directly.

So the point that I'm making is, is it's not as if they bought these shares
of stock as a passive investment to hopefully profit from the war.


They were directly doing the bidding of the individual who built the Nazi
war machine.


Some very shocking documents that I saw at the Library of Congress, two
weeks ago on August 10th . . .had on August 9th, excuse me. . .Had to do
with the hearings McCormick-Dickstein Committee of November 1934—show that
Prescott Bush and the du Pont family, the Remington family, and J. P.
Morgan. . .


tried to overthrow the US Government, assassinate FDR and put a Hitler-style
fascist state in place.


I have in my possession testimony from the McCormick-Dickstein Committee in
November of 1934, by one of the fascist plotters, that they were going to
follow Hitler's model exactly and impose martial law on the United States.
Round up unemployed people that were “worthless to the economy”, and
trouble-makers and Jews, and put them into internment camps. And their plan
was, if necessary to exterminate the people that could not be part of the
effort.

[Martial Law: The Pretext is Now Set - Infowars.net]

The only reason the coup attempt in 1934 didn't succeed, is that they hired
the wrong General to lead it. General Smedley Butler, the great Marine
hero—two time Congressional Medal of Honor winner—who worked with the
plotters just long enough to be able to identity who they were, and then
blew the whistle on them to Congress.

[General Smedley Butler: Attack on the Nazis - History Today]

Incredibly, after being warned by the FBI and the Justice Department and the
Treasury Department—to cease and desist in their Nazi dealings—they had
continued them until 1951.

There had been 28 additional seizures of Nazi assets and Nazi business
fronts between late 1942 and 1951, and that they had moved Nazi assets into
Switzerland and Brazil, Argentina and Panama, and that they had continued to
do business with their primary Nazi patron who was Fritz Thyssen—who backed
Hitler beginning in 1921; who was the wealthiest man in Germany and a steel
& coal baron, who with his partner Friedrich Flick—essentially built the
Nazi war machine along with IG Farben.

In 1951, when Fritz Thyssen died in Argentina, Union Banking Corporation was
liquidated by the US Government, and Prescott Bush received $1,500,000 for
his holdings in his Nazi business, and that was the beginning of the Bush
family fortune, for all intents and purposes.


George Bush doesn't take his philosophical foundation from the Bible or the
teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.


George Bush takes his inspiration from what he learned in Skull & Bones, and
from the Thule Society—that Hitler and Goebbels and Goering cut their teeth
in—Bohemian Grove—these evil organizations that perpetrate the ugly things
that these criminals are doing to this country for which they must be held
accountable.

Now you look at the Republican National Convention this week, and you bring
in Arnold Schwarzenegger to speak last night.

Schwarzenegger is the son of a Nazi. He has praised Nazis. He has praised
Hitler. He talked last night in terms like: we will not falter, we will not
waiver, we will win this war on terror.


“He's a leader who doesn't flinch, who doesn't waiver, who does not back
down!” - Arnold Schwarzenegger (talking about George W. Bush)


Well. . .that's exactly the speeches that Hitler made after the Patriot Act
after 9/11. . .which I submit is his [George Bush's] “Reichstag fire”.

Karl Rove and his minions are every bit the masters of propaganda that
Joseph Goebbels was. They literally took lessons from Goebbels and Goering
about how to create such brilliant propaganda, that “unreality” can become
reality. And reality can be subverted to fantasy—political subterfuge right
before your eyes!

[The Bush-Rove-Schwarzenegger Nazi Nexus - CounterPunch.org]


So there's just an endless broken record that is leading up to the present
era.

The Bush family has had a single goal for one-hundred years, which is to
become the most powerful family on the planet. . .and to rule the world.

And they are on the verge of doing that under George W. Bush.

It's critical that every citizen of this country rise up and do something
because the day of reckoning is at hand and these people are Nazis. They are
practicing Nazi philosophy. They are mimicking Nazi tactics, and. . .



Time is running out.



Impeach Bush Now!
 
The documents do not show any evidence Bush directly aided that effort. Bush had one share.(out of 4000)
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The AOL video is obviously left wing propaganda BS.
The Fox report shows he owned 1/4000 th of this. So, I'm sure he was running everything.

It would be convenient for me to know which conspiracy du jour that Playboy Penguin is falling for so I would know that it is probably nonsense.

OBTW, do a search on John Buchanan. What a wacko.
 
It would be convenient for me to know which conspiracy du jour that Playboy Penguin is falling for so I would know that it is probably nonsense.
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I am not supporting this or any conspiracy theory...I am pointing out that all knowledge cannot be fed to you by your computer or Fox news.

You need to actually get out and find the facts. The very fact that you believe Fox news (which has admitted in court that they make up facts) without going out and doing some research is very telling of your willingness to find the truth.
 
The proven record of Prescott Bush's involvement in financing the Nazi war machine dovetails with the fact that he was part of a criminal cabal that actively sought to impose a fascist coup in America.
Prescott did not succeed but many would argue that two generations down the line the mission has all but been accomplished.
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perhaps many would argue, but they would be wrong. Hyperbole like this indicates a complete lack of knowledge of the difference between our form of government and fascism.
 
Didn't mean to stir up bad blood. Was just wondering about accuracy. Sources like the BBC and the Guardian which where this story can be traced back to have agendas as is clear but so does everyone else. I just want the facts.

"The AOL video is obviously left wing propaganda BS.
The Fox report shows he owned 1/4000 th of this."

Can you say more? The AOL video IS a fox news report, no? I can't get it to play sound, can you? If BOTH BBC AND Fox are reporting this political bias seems balanced out.

The more I search and read the more disturbed I become. As far as I can tell it is true that there was this coup attempt which I never heard before and I thought I knew my American history pretty well and Prescott Bush was a major player. IF that's true I guess I'm kinda stunned.
 
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Whe are the real fascists? Lefties...

Jonah Goldberg's new book Liberal Fascism may shed some light on the subject. In fact, FDR and his group were solid admirers of the Italian brand of fascism because it organized the masses so well and the trains ran on time. Both groups greatly expanded the power of the state over the individual as means to make things happen and attempt to control events which cannot successfully be controlled centrally, such as economic activity. FDR certainly saw people as less important than the state.

so the idea of another group, mostly of businessmen, proposing to undo the "democratic" FDR sounds a little off. Note that conservatives have been labeled as "fascists" by the left for decades...when in fact most conservatives are more oriented to individual freedom than leftists are, which is the theme of Goldberg's book.

If you don't think leftists don't put ideological conformity as a high priority, look at the global warming movement and Bjorn Lomquist. When he was with the movement as on e of early proponents of MMGW, he was an inspired scientist of the highest caliber. Since he decided MMGW is a hoax, he is a liar, thief, fool and a lot of other horrible things, according to the same people who lionized him before.

I have not read the book, this is from the reivew in the WSJ of last week. Needless to say, I will have to get it.
 
To the OP, Smedley Butler wrote a pretty long book on his life and career, as well as his thoughts on war solely for business interest, especially the wars that he himself participated in. I'm sure the "task" that he was selected to do would be well documented within it.
 
Thanks for help all. Everyonce in a while I learn something just has me shaking my head.

CGSteve, preciate pointing me to that book shoulda thought of that, makes sense to see what the witness said. Im checking it out.

Let it Bleed, interesting. I think conspiracy is everywhere and mostly just BS. But no doubt history is full of some weird sht--CIA, Cheney, Osama, Hussein is one I didn't buy for a long time. One thing I believe totally is big corporations will do anything to make and keep their $. Ford pinto proved that years ago. New examples every year.

HarrySchell, thanks for the book suggestion. What I've learned on FDR is mixed. Hoover said he was an Italian style fascist. FDR didn't seem to have nothing against becoming a dictator, he was pro censorship and wanted more power for himself. Used to be Id agree most conservatives are pro-individual freedom. But I dont see it. Librals yell fascist! Conservatives yell socialist. Everybody just says what they hear from their favorite media mouthpiece. No accusing anyone here, just my 2. Can't blame folks, it's a busy life. I like to make up my own mind but it seems harder and harder to get real facts. "Preponderance of evidence" is what I was taught to try for.

Thanks again. I pray for this great nation's future.
 
Librals yell fascist! Conservatives yell socialist. Everybody just says what they hear from their favorite media mouthpiece. No accusing anyone here, just my 2.
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That's because many on the left learn by osmosis and simply repeat what they hear. I do listen to rightwing talk shows but occassionaly listen to leftwing talk shows for comparison. One side invites free discussion and debate, the other sneers, insults and tries to minimize opposing views. You are welcome to your own observations but it isn't the right wanting to shut down freedom of speech with the Fairness Doctrine. As far a the left calling the right fascist, I don't think they know what the term means:


Main Entry:
fas·cism Listen to the pronunciation of fascism
Pronunciation:
\ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date:
1921

1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
 
"That's because many on the left learn by osmosis and simply repeat what they hear."

Well, I can't see one group w. a monopoly on that. Seems to me most folks end up w. what their parents thought. Seems like a good thing to me alot of times.

" I do listen to rightwing talk shows but occassionaly listen to leftwing talk shows for comparison. One side invites free discussion and debate, the other sneers, insults and tries to minimize opposing views."

I listen to both as much as I can stand which generally isn't too far. Ranting and raving coming from all sides--good for bizness probably. Rush seems to sneer worse n NPR to me. Saddens me honestly. History shows all empires and nations fall when radicals get too loud split a country, reasonable folks can't be heard, and then some outside enemy takes advantage. course radicals is what keeps a country honest too.

"You are welcome to your own observations but it isn't the right wanting to shut down freedom of speech with the Fairness Doctrine."

I do preciate the permission;)--not sure what Fairness doctrine is but I'm with you on anything shutting down freedom of speech is wrong. Marketplace of ideas has got to be kept or prejudice and greed takes over.

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

that sounds like every darn govment this nation has had for fifty years! (Im stretching some. but you know what I mean.)
 
I'd be careful in the process of research here. I've been involved in things like this, and the problem here is making a "jump." Let me explain.

There is a base line element in logic that dictates that if A=B, and B=C, and C=D, the it must follow that A=D. In fact, many of my professors taught this formula as a fact in the 1960's.

In the human experience, especially in researching the acts of humans there are two very important problems with the theory.

First, most people who smell the idea of a conspiracy or desire to uncover an aspect of history not previously known, tend to "jump" to the conclusion to which they want to believe. For example, many people truly wish to believe in a Grassy Knoll Shooter. If someone, somewhere, by any means ever found a discarded 30-06 case anywhere near that area you'd probably have outrage for a Congressional hearing.

Second, and here's the real bell-ringer, any student of history must consider that people evolve over time. For example, one of my supervisor's at my job when I was in college was in the Luftwaffe. As a boy, without initially knowing him and the history of his life, I was confused as to why he was not in prison, or executed by the Israeli government.

I would not like to stand trial now for the beliefs I had at the age of twenty. One of the elements that struck me as I read the treatise is that the years of the 1930's keep appearing. Yikes, my Dad was a pimply-faced teenager at that time--and he could now be your great-grandfather.

If I can make another point from a personal standpoint, these items are also on the internet. In that instance, I always backtrack any claim of being a "fact."
 
One side invites free discussion and debate, the other sneers, insults and tries to minimize opposing views.
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Right...conservative talk shows are all about free speech. :barf: :rolleyes:

In the past few years I have called Randy Rhodes twice, to tell her she is a nutcase, and made it to air both times.

I called Sam Seder once to correct him on a fact he got wrong about military service and Al Franken once to tell him I enjoyed his last book and to discuss the importance of tax reform. Again I made it to air both times.

I have called Rush at least a dozen times and I never make it past the intensive screening process. I was even called a "liberal nutcase" by his screener because I said I wanted to challenge Rush on a statement he had just made about Autism which was completely incorrect.

I have called O'Reilly a few times and also never made it past the screening process.
 
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