Looking for advice

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Not that rifles are my forte, but what about the Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine? .308 Win, 8 lbs, camo, Accutrigger, Accustock, heavy barrel, MSRP = $952. That'd save the OP some cheese for the scope.....
 
You'd have to cut about $500 off that price to foist a detachable-mag turnbolt on me - why would you want something else to lose?

And yeah, that seems a bit heavy for a hunter. But overall I like it but for the detachable mag - ugh.
 
I've hunted with a 30-06 since the early 1970's. Can't say anything bad about the round. Have several rifles in the chambering that have too much sentimental value to sell. But if advising a young shooter today I'd tell them to skip the 30-06 entirely. Since buying a couple of 308 rifles the 30-06's have not been hunting.

Todays better 308 loads are 200 fps faster than the 30-06 loads of the WW-2 era. Even the best 30-06 loads today only beat 308 by 100-120 fps, but with about 25% more recoil. Yea, the 30-06 can shoot heavier bullets than a 308 can handle, but for 99.99% of all shooting even in North America a 150-165 gr premium bullet from a 308 is in fact overkill. And if the 308 ain't enough, you need a lot more gun than a 30-06 to make a difference.
 
So,the stainless adds a bit to the price for this rifle. I also wanted a 26" bull barrel which seems like it is only available on special order. I thought about the model 10 but it did not have either of the options above. The model 12's are a varmint hunting rifle and not a bench rest model. I have rifles, but besides my mini 14, nothing I could really use for hunting 4 legged game and certainly nothing with the reach out and touch capability. I have had to borrow rifles for my deer hunts and that gets old pretty quick. So, if you are looking for a comparable rifle, I think the 12 in any caliber is a pretty fair shot. I am just ordering it in .30-06 or now maybe .308 thanks to you rascals! As far as the weight is concerned, I really enjoy some heft. I am not the side of the road type of hunter. Who knows, I could be convinced, I have just never done it. I like the challenge of hiking in and packing out. I enjoy a certain level of difficulty. I am sure that is going to change one day, but hopefully not soon.
This is about the closest comparison to what I want. However, I am ordering the accustock. See the 12 BVSS
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/
It seems the .308 Win is not a special order whereas the .30-06 is. This may be the turning point on THIS decision!!!
 
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I forgot to add something. I am hoping either you guys could de-bunk this or a .30-06 aficionado will chime in. One reason that I want a 26 inch barrel is that it was my understanding that the extra velocity would reach near 300 winmag proportions. I want you all to know that I really do appreciate all of your input. This rifle will have to be both a hunter and a bench rest rifle for me. I just can't do one of each.
 
Yes, you will definitely get more velocity, without a doubt - materially... might approach but probably not quite equal .300 winmag from a 22" bbl. Close enough. Excellent chambering choice.... as mentioned, the .30-06 is never a mistake.
 
I'vebeenduped said:
I forgot to add something. I am hoping either you guys could de-bunk this or a .30-06 aficionado will chime in. One reason that I want a 26 inch barrel is that it was my understanding that the extra velocity would reach near 300 winmag proportions. I want you all to know that I really do appreciate all of your input. This rifle will have to be both a hunter and a bench rest rifle for me. I just can't do one of each.
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That's all a matter of comparing apples to oranges. A .300WinMag with a 20" barrel, maybe. A .300 could also have a 26" barrel and then the -06 won't be close.

Of course, you don't need a .300Mag to kill deer either, at any distance.

Killing animals is about accuracy, not power. Guns with less recoil get shot with better accuracy than guns with more recoil, by most shooters. There won't be the slightest difference to a deer if it's hit with a bullet from a .308, -06 or .300Mag. The only difference is to the shooter, who has to absorb either 20% or 50% more recoil than if he was shooting a .308.
 
Sheesh!

Okay, people! I went in to this thread pretty confident about what I wanted. So, now I am shaking my fist at this thread like the old guy yelling, "Get off of my lawn!" With the cost of doing a special order being much more, what are your thoughts on the accustock versus the wood hardware? I am looking at the model 12 VLP DBM in .308. I would save nearly enough to be able to put a nice scope on it.
 
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Yhats a nive rifle, plenty for most game hunting, out of the box accuracy will be top-notch also.


Id do that and dont be tight on rings and bases and nice glass.
 
Nice gun, just my style. I like it.

(Still wouldn't pick a .30 cal though.:D;))

You can get a pillared stock for it from EABCo for $169 if you're worried. I'd shoot it first.
 
Very nice rifle, I'm jealous:D Lots of aftermarket parts available too so if you want to change something in the future it should not be a problem.

What kind of glass are you thinking about?
 
Heck, it took me a while just to save up for this rifle. I am probably about 4 or 5 months away from even thinking about the scope. I want to save about 600 before I start looking. I know that isn't much for a scope but my means are my means...
 
I'vebeenduped, 30-06 is never a mistake and they only get better. I'm shooting one with 26" long Bartlein barrel my other 30-06 has 25" long barrel.

Your going to get a gain and it is the unknown. In my rifles with longer barrels I find I may be gr or two under max published load at max velocity.

Good thing about 30-06 you can drop it down get a good target load if you like. My Bartlein barrel 30-06 I use Lapua brass for paper.

I don't own a 308 so can't comment.

Well good luck
 
Old Roper,
I appreciate the input. I really do. I was pretty set on a .30-06. However, another $200+ to special order it just doesn't make sense for me at this point. That and an 8 week wait. There would now be $200 more to my scope fund. That, to me, is pretty important. It would probably be a different story if the rifle I am going to order came in .30-06.

Thanks for the help, to all of you!
 
If I was going to get a .30-06, it would be a T/C Venture. I watched as my friend shot 2 deer at 200 yards, both of them fell like they were hit by a car, neither took a single step. T/C guarantees MOA accuracy, my friend's rifle produces 1/4 MOA groups with reloads. Way less money than the Savage your looking at.

Nothing wrong with the .30-06, I personally find it to be a lot more power than I need. Hunting out several hundred yards or more, the .30-06 shines. Shoot a deer around here at the 3-25 yards they tend to come out of the woods, it's a lot more gun than I need for the job.

I would purchase a T/C venture in something like 7mm-08, .308, or .243 win. All of these wouldn't have any problem killing any deer in this part of the country at the ranges I hunt.
 
Okay, people! I went in to this thread pretty confident about what I wanted. So, now I am shaking my fist at this thread like the old guy yelling, "Get off of my lawn!" With the cost of doing a special order being much more, what are your thoughts on the accustock versus the wood hardware? I am looking at the model 12 VLP DBM in .308. I would save nearly enough to be able to put a nice scope on it.
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The accustock is perfectly fine for shooting tight groups. Whether it fits you well or not is an entirely different matter.

If you get the 12 VLP DBM with the wood stock, I would shoot it first before changing anything.

Jimro
 
Yea, the 30-06 can shoot heavier bullets than a 308 can handle,
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I've been hearing this for decades. It wasn't true then, its not true now.

It is HALF a statement, and gives a completely FALSE impression.

If you can shoot it from a .30-06, you can shoot it from a .308. Period. Other than the chambers, the barrels are identical. And you can get either in different twist rates.

Can you get the same velocity from both? No. Duh!:D

But not being able to get as much velocity as you might like is worlds away from "not able to handle" heavy bullets. Yes, the 200 & 220gr in the .308 are slower. But "not able to handle them" is BS.

Put a 220gr bullet in a .308 win and you have a modern short action .30-40 Krag (ballistically) and the Krag has killed dead everything that walks in North America, including grizz.

For that matter, so has the .30-30.

interestingly, nobody is going around saying the .30-06 "can't handle" heavy bullets because the .300 Weatherby shoots them faster.....

Sorry for the rant. Done now.
Till the next time I see that same phrase thoughtlessly repeated...
;)
 
Lots of hooey out there about 308 Vs 30-06.

The reason why? - The folks who used the 30-06 in the military are a vanishing breed, most have passed away - but most of the ones who used .308 in M14's are still with us.

So we get a lot of this "there hasn't been anything better than the .308 since the invention of sliced bread" horse-hockey floating around.

An objective look at the .308 and the 30-06 will tell you that the 30-06 has more boiler-room and thus can give you at least 100-300 fps more velocity with most if not all bullets. ( Other factors such as barrel length being the same ) - And yes, velocity does matter.

Statements about one cartridge being "more accurate" than the other are a good way to spot those who are either deluded, or wish to BS somebody. Fact of the matter is: Accuracy is much more influenced by the rifle and by the shooter - than by the cartridge. Both cartridges are capable ( in the right rifle ) of shooting much more accurately than most shooters can.

The .308 is definitely a little cheaper to shoot, and technically more efficient than the 30-06, but only if you are using lighter bullets. If you are using heavier bullets for big game or long-range shooting, the 30-06 gives you a velocity edge that the relatively pipsqueak .308 case simply cannot match.

For hunting and long-range shooting purposes, the 30-06 has a definite edge over the .308 - and always will. Anybody who is objective and knowledgeable on the subject will tell you that much. Again, velocity does matter or we would all be shooting .30 carbine because it is "more efficient".

When you see multiple posts desperately trying to bulldoze you into one opinion or another with loads of cherry-picked, alleged 'facts', that's the best BS detector that we have at our disposal. Usually these posts come from ex-military folks, as mentioned above. Whatever they used while they were in the service is always the best - and the facts be damned.

If you want a lightweight rifle to shoot lightweight bullets at the smaller varieties of big game, and you want to save money on powder, the .308 is the way to go. It has a definite edge there.

Otherwise...
 
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PVL said:
Statements about one cartridge being "more accurate" than the other are a good way to spot those who are either deluded, or wish to BS somebody. Fact of the matter is: Accuracy is much more influenced by the rifle and by the shooter - than by the cartridge. Both cartridges are capable ( in the right rifle ) of shooting much more accurately than most shooters can.
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A few minutes look at historical accuracy records will show who's "deluded". Within a few years of coming on the scene, the .308 broke every accuracy record held by the .30-06 and the -06 has never reclaimed them in the many decades since.

Of course accuracy is influenced both by the rifle and the shooter. Since the shooter will be the same either way, the variable is the rifle and cartridge.

The accuracy difference will never be known by an average shooter with an average rifle, or even by an above average shooter with an above average rifle but it IS real and with the .30-06 the shooter is absorbing 10-20% more recoil while trying to get that accuracy.

In terms of velocity, a brief few minutes looking at load data for both cartridges shows that the .30-06 almost never has an advantage of more than 125fps over the .308 and the advantage at 200gr (bullets the .308 supposedly "can't handle") is virtually zero. According to Hodgdon, the numbers are essentially identical from a 24" barrel. Considering that different barrels will shoot IDENTICAL ammo as much as 150fps different or more, those differences in load data velocity amount to statistical noise that may or may not be true in any given gun.

So, let's look at the factual comparison.

1)There are more loads available for the .308. Hodgdon has more than twice as many for .308 as .30-06. If a person wants maximum versatility, .30-06 would be the wrong choice.

2)Factory ammo selection mirrors load data. MidWayUSA carries 170 choices for .308, 123 for .30-06. In stock and available, 49 for .308, 23 for .30-06. If a person wants best factory ammo selection, .30-06 is the wrong choice.

2)The .308 broke every accuracy record held by the .30-06. It's indisputable. Any given gun may be more or less accurate and may be better than the shooter, that doesn't change the inherent advantage. If you want inherent accuracy, the .30-06 is the wrong choice.

3)Even if we assume a 300fps velocity advantage with a 200gr bullet (which isn't real but let's just pay along), that's 40 ft-lbs difference at the muzzle and about 4" trajectory at 500 yards. The real difference is more likely to be AT MOST about 20 ft-lbs and 2" trajectory, which is already essentially zero, or it may on fact actually BE zero. 40 ft-lbs difference between cartridges that produce 2,850 and a trajectory difference at 500 that amounts to 3 clicks? Ok, that "advantage" goes to the .30-06.

I'm not a military guy and I don't even particularly like the .308. Don't own one, never will. But the facts speak for themselves. In any category, there's either virtually no difference or the .308 wins.
 
Modern manufacturing processes today are producing much higher quality barrels of much higher quality steel that were available in the past.

I thought everybody knew and understood that.

The same goes for automobiles, which needed a "tune-up" every few thousand miles when 30-06's were most popular - but only need that at 100,000 miles today.

We are talking about cartridges, not the rifles of yesteryear compared to the rifles made today.

Digging up old match data from the 1950's to compare to matches run today only proves that you are willing to go to great lengths to distribute highly questionable data. Of course modern rifles out-shoot old style guns, but this tells us absolutely nothing about so-called "cartridge accuracy", a dubious concept at best.

Your data is less than credible, to say the least. Might as well compare the Brown Bess to the M16 as a military arm, while you are at it.

In equivalent modern rifles, the 30-06 has an edge over any .308 simply through the fact that there is more velocity available. Neither one has an accuracy edge over the other with equivalent modern rifles.

That's why I say that statements about one cartridge being "more accurate" than the other are a good way to spot those who are either deluded, or wish to BS somebody. Fact of the matter is: Accuracy is much more influenced by the rifle and by the shooter - than by the cartridge. Both cartridges are capable ( in the right rifle ) of shooting much more accurately than most shooters can.
 
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