Looking for advice on a first handgun

OK, to answer a few questions:
- I'm 22. I'm not an illegal alien and I've never been convicted of anything or arrested, so I don't think I should have any trouble getting the permit.
- I'm a grad student at GA Tech, so I realize I probably won't be able to carry on campus.
- All my flying is Part 91, in aircraft under 12,500 lbs, and there's no TSA nonsense at the GA terminal at any airport I've ever flown to or from.
 
one,

I remember doing a turkey shoot in the basement of my high school. I wasted most of my 10 shots on the paperclips holding everyone else's target. This wasn't THAT long ago and it wasn't in the sticks either.
 
Also, the more I think about it, the more I think I should just get a .22 for now. My parents are OK with rifles and shotguns, but they've never owned a handgun and will probably have some misgivings at first. So I'm thinking I'll buy some .22 handgun, tell my parents what my plans are, hone my skills at the range, and then eventually move up to a .357 once I know how to handle a handgun and when I'm skilled enough to make it worthwhile to even bother to possess one for personal security.

I looked around at some S&W Model 18's, they look pretty pricey! ~$400+ for a used .22 caliber revolver seems like a lot to me. Considering it's just for developing my skills a little bit, any cheaper recommendations?
 
You will never outgrow a 22lr revolver. They typically go for 20% over centerfire revolvers.

Ruger Single Six is a nice single action (may come with a 22mag cylinder too).
 
The Model 18 is pricey...

... because it's an excellent shooter, and most owners won't part with them. Scarcity drives up price.

You'll see comparable prices on the Model 15. The K-Frame Masterpiece series are sought after for good reason. You can find a less expensive revolver, but I can assure you that after you've shot a Model 18, you won't begrudge the $400.

Whatever works for you, of course.

Cheers,

M
 
For someone on a budget (and who doesn't know any better), it just seems hard to walk away from a $300 Rossi .38 special in favor of a $400 .22.
 
Apples and oranges

You indicated the move toward a .22 was to facilitate your learning curve, and to ease your parents into the idea. In that case, the Rossi .38 is not an option anyway, so it's a bad comparison.

Comparing a Rossi to a S&W Combat Masterpiece series revolver is a hugely bad comparison; this would be akin to comparing a Yugo to a Cadillac. Yes, the Yugo will get you from point A to point B...

There are two very disparate ways of living on a budget. One is to buy cheap things, that are more affordable. The other is to save up enough to buy something of quality, so that you'll be happy with it, and won't end up losing money when you inevitably upgrade or replace the cheap item later on.

Look at it in terms of clothing: My boots cost some money, but replacing the soles is fairly cheap; in the long run, my higher quality uppers will last for decades, and I won't have to pay for replacements in all that time. Same with my LL Bean chamois shirts; they cost more, but they don't get worn thin and pilled looking nearly as fast as most other chamois.

Sometimes, all you pay extra for is a name, but in many cases, that extra money buys you better quality in the forms of function, fit, and durability. That actually makes it easier for you to maintain your budget; it just means you can't purchase items as frequently.

Clothing, cars, or guns, it holds true for all.
 
OK. I can't stop aching when I look at the ammo prices for .38 or .357. I'll buy a bigger gun in 6 months or a year when I have more money or when I don't need the practice/experience of shooting quite so much. For now I want to derail my topic:

What is a good, affordable .22 or similar caliber pistol that has cheap ammunition and will help me hone my handgun skills. It's not particularly important to me whether it's a revolver or a semi-automatic.
 
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Model 18 capabilities

Granted, these were at close ranges (5 and 10 yards), but I was doing a comparison between 4" and snubnose revolvers. Since the snub was double action only, I shot the Model 18 in double action only for the comparison.

The thing to bear in mind is that as far as mechanical precision of the pistol, these groups are 100 rounds at 10 yards, and 155 rounds at 5 (I wanted to burn up the remaining ammo in a large box).

The targets aren't life-size, maybe 2/3 scale. You can get an idea of the size by comparing the trigger guard to the overall group.

Anyway, this is why I'd recommend a Model 18:

SWM1810yds100rds.jpg


SWM185yds155rds.jpg
 
9mm ammo looks pretty cheap. As much as I like the looks of revolvers, why not just get a 9mm semiauto that's small enough for CCW? It seems like that would work for most of my personal security needs, be relatively cheap for the gun itself, and have cheap ammo so I can get plenty of practice in...
 
9mm auto

That's another option for you; a compact 9mm is not the best for protection against 4-legged predators while hiking/camping, but it's fine for the 2-legged predators, as well as range and CCW use. For a dedicated hiking and woods handgun, I prefer large magnum revolvers, even if the odds of needing one are relatively slim.

Of course, with the 9mm, you will need to learn how to clear stoppages, in case you ever have one, but that's not hard.

The biggest disadvantage to starting out with a compact handgun in SD caliber is that this configuration type has relatively higher recoil, and can induce flinching if you don't train properly. It's nothing you can't work around or overcome, but you do need to be aware of the potential issue.

I can't personally recommend any small 9mm in the $300 range. The ones I like start in the mid-$500 range. I'm sure other forum members could recommend some, though.

If you do want to go into the ANG, you might consider a Beretta 92 or SIG P228/P229 variant; the M9 and M11 are currently in service, and prior familiarity would make the training and qualification courses a breeze.

Cheers,

M
 
I like the look of the beretta 92, it seems like a pretty good compromise. I know I'm asking too much out of a single gun here, but it sure would be nice if it was something I could CCW. Even on my big frame, I don't think I could hide a beretta 92 short of wearing a trench coat. I wonder if there are any PX4 Storm Sub-Compacts out there used for sale. Heck, for that gun even a cheapskate like me might splurge for the $550 to buy it new.
 
Sure you can, but not necessarily in comfortable clothing

In the heat of a Georgia summer, it could be a bit much.

I used to own a Beretta 92 Centurion. Nice shooting gun. A bit too thick for IWB, but I carried it OWB under a loose shirt.

Kind of heavy, so you need a good belt and a quality holster.

If it's too hot and humid to be comfortable in belted shorts or pants, plus t-shirt and outer shirt, then trying to CCW a 92 could get pretty challenging. REI hiking shirts do the trick pretty well, though; they breathe nicely, but have enough structure to minimize printing. They're designed for extended trail wear, after all. (I know, you're on a budget; still, decent carry gear and clothing is going to cost some money, unless you go with something small enough for easy pocket carry.)

I'd recommend a SimplyRugged Cuda if you go with a larger auto. It can be worn OWB, or, if you opt for a slimmer auto, you can get inside-out straps and wear the Cuda IWB. (These are leather snap-loops, that attach to the holster via phillips head male and female fittings) Not overly expensive, and the turnaround time from Rob Leahy is usually very fast, less than two weeks, sometimes less than one week.

http://www.simplyrugged.com/store/cuda.html

Cheers,

M
 
The Beretta PX4 Subcompact 9mm is really starting to appeal to me, even though I probably won't be able to find one used, since they're relatively new to the states. It seems to get great reviews, the gun itself is relatively cheap (~$550 new), and the 9mm ammo is pretty cheap too. It looks good, and it's small enough to conceal without being toy-sized.

What do you guys think of the PX4 SC 9mm as a first handgun?

px4StormCompact.jpg
 
In the general case I wouldn't typically recommend that someone buy a compact pistol as a first handgun.

It's not a horrible idea, it's just that small guns are harder to shoot and pistols are already hard enough to shoot if you're just starting out.

I think that the Kahr CW9 or Kahr P9 is about as small as I'd want to go if I were learning to shoot handguns.
 
I have a ruger security-six 357 with a 4 inch barrel.The stock grips didn't give
me the control I wanted and needed to shoot this revolver consistently.I found
a pair of rubber grips that absorbed the recoil and I was good to go.As I put
more rounds through this revolver I could anticipate when the hammer was going to break. I rarely use this for ccw as it only has six rounds and it sits as
my trusty house gun under my computer.
You can find good,reliable polymer auto loaders in the market place for reasonable prices provided you don't get caught up with the gun snobs.

You can pick up brand new S&W Sigma for under $350.Before all you naysayers
say they are nothing but junk.How many of you actually own them? I've had mine for 9 years zero problems. I moved up to glocks for ccw but this one is my truck gun.
 
Ang -
I tried to like the PX series of Beretta pistols but they just don't seem to fit my hand right. Yours may be larger and have a more comfortable grip. I also found the safety too small and stiff for my liking.

For a full-size 9mm, you can buy any of the single-stack S&W 9mm pistols for around $400 in excellent condtion. My favorites are the 1st two generations - the Model 39-2 and the 439 (2nd generation). These are 4-inch "service" pistols, but they conceal rather well due to the narrow profile.
M39M_1110.jpg

S&W Model 39-2, 9mm 8+1 capacity

On a lark, I picked up a well carried but lightly used S&W 3914NL. This is the blue version of their 3913 Ladysmith pistol, with nightsights. While trimmer than the older 39-2, and a 3.5" barrel and it will use the 39-2 magazines (even if they poke out a bit). Capacity is still 8+1.
3914-716.jpg

This has become a favorite summer carry gun due to its light weight, bobbed hammer and excellent accuracy. Because the finish wasn't great on this one, I picked it up for under $250 - a major score for an excellent pistol.

The CZ-75B series gets plenty of rave reviews from owners and they are good guns. I can never quite reach the safety though. But their new P-01 pistol has a decocker lever mounted close to the thumb's position which is much easier to reach. I've not yet fired one, but this is on my short list of 9mm's.
CZP01.jpg

CZ P-01 Pistol

Even though it is a .45ACP and ammo is more expensive, the almost ideal CCW pistol (IMO) is Colt's Defender. This is out of your immediate price range, but should be given consideration. It's one of the few 3-inch .45's that works well. It's pointing characteristics (with the Hogue grips) are excellent and its business end is a huge gaping hole.
colt_defender.jpg

Colt's 1911 Defender Model .45 ACP

There is nothing wrong with the 9mm when used properly and you make good hits on your target. Good hits, however, are center-of-mass (COM) into vital organs or the brain/spine (CNS). With premium JHP ammo, the 9mm is quite adequate for self-defense.

However, there is also a difference at the "business end". Despite the small size difference on paper (0.097") that does translate visually to a much larger hole. Any gun pointed at you is intimidating, but the bigger the hole the more worrisome it looks.
MuzzleSizesS_1129.jpg

Kimber .45 ACP (L) vs. Colt 9mm Combat Commander (R)
 
So, no major arguments against the PX4 SC 9mm as a first gun? I understand that it's not preferable to have a subcompact as a first handgun, but this one isn't really tiny by any means. Just small enough that I can probably conceal it on my big frame if I need to.

Other than the subcompact-as-a-first-gun issue, it seems pretty perfect. The only other downside I can think of is that it will be a little bit harder to introduce to my folks than, say, a .22LR that is meant exclusively for the range.

Small enough for CCW without being tiny. 9mm ammo is relatively cheap so I can afford to get lots of practice in. It looks sweet and seems to have some decent features. And it's big enough for PS without being a cannon.

I think later on after I've got some more experience (and money!) I'll look for a .357 for camping, solo trips, etc, but for now this seems like a pretty swell first gun.
 
Far be it from me to argue against a quality pistol as a first choice. I do recommend, however, you spend some time "practicing" to present the PX-4 from a holster and flick off the slide-mounted safety in a hurry. That was one thing that put me off this model. The lever felt "buried" along the slide and I couldn't easily push it up every time.
PX4_SC_L.jpg

PX-4 Storm, Sub-compact 9mm.

A 3" barrel is a fair compromise between concealed and medium distance work (up to 25 yards). If the gun balances well in your hand and you can reach all the controls easily then why not?

I did get that you're a fairly tall or large fellow. If you're around 6' (5'11" to 6'2") and over 180 pounds, properly dressed you should be able to hide a full size 1911 or a smaller version of the pistol. Perhaps not in shorts and a t-shirt, but with a light shirt over it, yes.

It's really the grip-profile that "prints" or gives away the presence of most handguns. The bottom rear edge or corner of a handgun become the "top" of the gun in a holster. If it has a square corner it will show up sort of like a "tent pole" against a shirt. Roundbutt revolvers or short butt autos are more concealable.

The image below shows the difference for similar wheelguns.
M64-4_inch.jpg
M64_3_inch.jpg

The "pointy corner" of the top gun has been removed to form a rounded curve. This shows up less when a shirt presses against it in a breeze.

On pistols, the corner is frequently cut at an angle ("bobtailed") to provide a similar benefit for concealment.
 
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