101combatvet
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A lot of people have no idea what they are talking about.
Looking for a 45 acp that's reliable out of the box
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I’ve had 5 1911s. Two Smith and Wessons, one Springfield Armory, one Colt, and one Wilson Combat. All but the Wilson needed servicing in the form of repairs or adjustments to parts and the Wilson was great as long as I used Federal ammunition and not Fiocchi or Blazer Brass. All of these were shot with brass cased FMJ ammunition.
The first Smith and Wesson had the plunger tube for the safety break off. A gunsmith fixed that easily enough. The second S&W had to go back to the factory from day one due to failures to feed, failures to go into battery etc. S&W “adjusted the barrel to slide fit” before sending it back. It functioned fine afterwards, but the accuracy was also never great after.
The Springfield Armory started having failures to eject around the 1000 rd mark. It needed its internal extractor adjusted, again not a particularly hard repair and my general impressions of the pistol were positive.
The Colt ejected straight into my forehead and the forehead of anyone that used it from day one. I sold it to a friend who knew of the issues. Last I knew a smith had fixed it for him.
Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about. Maybe I’m a bad luck magnet. I’ve owned other 45 ACP pistols that were rock solid. That included an XD45 and the HK45c, with the latter going 2000 rd without a malfunction, even on junk Wolf ammunition. I like 1911s, that’s why I keep buying them. My experience has been they aren’t as likely to be reliable as some other designs. I took a course with Kyle Lamb a few weeks back, former Sergeant Major in 1st SFOD-D Delta Force. He has used the 1911 in combat. He doesn’t have a particularly positive opinion of the 1911 either.
Does anyone of this take away from the people that own and trust the 1911 and have had excellent function with their pistols? Not at all. My point is simply negative opinions about 1911s aren’t all just from gossip.
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The first Smith and Wesson had the plunger tube for the safety break off. A gunsmith fixed that easily enough. The second S&W had to go back to the factory from day one due to failures to feed, failures to go into battery etc. S&W “adjusted the barrel to slide fit” before sending it back. It functioned fine afterwards, but the accuracy was also never great after.
The Springfield Armory started having failures to eject around the 1000 rd mark. It needed its internal extractor adjusted, again not a particularly hard repair and my general impressions of the pistol were positive.
The Colt ejected straight into my forehead and the forehead of anyone that used it from day one. I sold it to a friend who knew of the issues. Last I knew a smith had fixed it for him.
Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about. Maybe I’m a bad luck magnet. I’ve owned other 45 ACP pistols that were rock solid. That included an XD45 and the HK45c, with the latter going 2000 rd without a malfunction, even on junk Wolf ammunition. I like 1911s, that’s why I keep buying them. My experience has been they aren’t as likely to be reliable as some other designs. I took a course with Kyle Lamb a few weeks back, former Sergeant Major in 1st SFOD-D Delta Force. He has used the 1911 in combat. He doesn’t have a particularly positive opinion of the 1911 either.
Does anyone of this take away from the people that own and trust the 1911 and have had excellent function with their pistols? Not at all. My point is simply negative opinions about 1911s aren’t all just from gossip.
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And that illustrates another problem. Samples of one. Two people can have vastly different experiences with the same pistol (I know you’re not claiming the HK45c is bad, it just illustrates a point I want to make). It’s pretty human to avoid something you had a bad experience with. There isn’t a ready database of all the issues people have had with a particular pistol. Word of mouth ends up playing a role, for good and bad.
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101combatvet
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Take this into account, the 1911 has won more matches than any other handgun to date. I have shot 1911s out of the box that performed flawlessly with decent accuracy.
It's always the fault of the firearm, not the shooter.
I would think it has won the most matches given the fact that it’s been in production for over 100 years and for many decades was the go to pistol.
I’ve been shooting long enough to be fully willing to admit when something is my fault. I’ve shot with enough shooters better than me that ego isn’t as big of a factor as it once was. I always try multiple brands of ammunition and another shooter. With the issues I mentioned above they were pretty obvious mechanical failures. That being said, if you want to write it off as me being the problem that’s your prerogative. Though I will point out it’s a bit contradictory to credit the 1911 with all those won matches, and yet blame the shooter anytime there is a problem.
In the meantime I’ll keep owning and liking 1911s, regardless of my past experience.
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I’ve been shooting long enough to be fully willing to admit when something is my fault. I’ve shot with enough shooters better than me that ego isn’t as big of a factor as it once was. I always try multiple brands of ammunition and another shooter. With the issues I mentioned above they were pretty obvious mechanical failures. That being said, if you want to write it off as me being the problem that’s your prerogative. Though I will point out it’s a bit contradictory to credit the 1911 with all those won matches, and yet blame the shooter anytime there is a problem.
In the meantime I’ll keep owning and liking 1911s, regardless of my past experience.
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The 1911 guns aside since you are specific about not wanting one I like the early Sig P220 guns and the HK guns and lean towards the Sig P220. Other than that I do like the 1911 guns and lean towards the Series 70 Colt guns.
Anyway 1911 guns aside go find a nice Sig P220 and life will be good.
Ron
Anyway 1911 guns aside go find a nice Sig P220 and life will be good.
Ron
101combatvet
New member
Hello, there is a good reason why it has been in production for 100 years.
I can't tell you how many people have walked up to me at the range and asked me to shoot their pistol. Why? Could you just do it? Sure. After shooting a nice group the guy admits that he thought his pistol was having accuracy problems. I had one guy do this with his wife present; she laughed when she realized her husband was the accuracy problem. Hearing the nonsense gets old fast. I now charge people to validate accuracy problems.
Well, given that in basically all of the examples I listed accuracy wasn’t the issue, I’m not overly sure how that relates. Only 1 of the 5 had what I would call an accuracy issue and that was only as a side effect of a repair. I don’t know anyone that seriously critiques the 1911 when it comes to accuracy. Functional issues are kind of another story.
If you have looked at what I’ve written and walked away convinced it was some attack on the 1911 pistol, then frankly there’s nothing more to say. I think what I wrote was pretty even handed and included all of the caveats about differing experiences and limited samples. My experience is just my experience. It doesn’t make me disbelieve your experience.
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If you have looked at what I’ve written and walked away convinced it was some attack on the 1911 pistol, then frankly there’s nothing more to say. I think what I wrote was pretty even handed and included all of the caveats about differing experiences and limited samples. My experience is just my experience. It doesn’t make me disbelieve your experience.
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Bentonville
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Hk45 hk45c hk usp45c
101combatvet
New member
You wrote - "It functioned fine afterwards, but the accuracy was also never great after".
For me, functionality and accuracy have never been a problem with a 1911 out of the box. Can I make it more accurate? Yup.
$5K Wilson Combat custom 1911s run smooth and hiccup-free outta da box! They make great weekend toys for rich guys to impress the range droolers with.
Back in the real world, it's hit or miss, ... mostly miss with your average affordable 1911. Ask the Mimber crowd. They, and the other hiccuppers, are what keep 1911-pistolsmiths fat and happy.
The OP asked for a recommendation on an out-of-the-box reliable .45acp pistol that wasn't a 1911. A number of folks on this thread obviously suffer from reading comprehension deficit due to having received a publik skool education.
Consensus seems to be that it's an HK, Sig P220, Glock 21 ... or maybe a Smith 3rd Gen 45XX, if he can find one.
'Nuff said.
Back in the real world, it's hit or miss, ... mostly miss with your average affordable 1911. Ask the Mimber crowd. They, and the other hiccuppers, are what keep 1911-pistolsmiths fat and happy.
The OP asked for a recommendation on an out-of-the-box reliable .45acp pistol that wasn't a 1911. A number of folks on this thread obviously suffer from reading comprehension deficit due to having received a publik skool education.
Consensus seems to be that it's an HK, Sig P220, Glock 21 ... or maybe a Smith 3rd Gen 45XX, if he can find one.
'Nuff said.
I’m in the 1911’s can be great guns camp but require more cost, maintenance and work to make them so. They have wonderful triggers and ergo’s but at the end of the day they are a century plus old design. This is both a testament to the gun as well as evidence that there is no denying there has been a 100 years of progress in design, materials, engineering and technology.
For an out of the box (so to speak I would never trust any gun right out of the box) reliable .45 there are lots of options but for me personally I probably fall into the following camps.
HK 45’s any of them full size or compact. HK, strangely as they are Eurocentric, make a hell of a good .45 handgun
Glock 21, 41, 30.
SIG P220/P220 compact/P245
There are, of course others, but those would be my top tier choices.
As for 1911s I own a Colt and an Ed Brown so I am certainly not anti or ill informed on 1911s. I just think there are simply better defensive weapon options in 2021. Does it make you wrong if the 1911 is your .45 chucker of choice? Nope, whatever works for you God bless you shoot safe enjoy in good health. They just aren’t my defensive go to of choice.
The point is the OP has options from most major players today that are darn good guns in .45 that are not 1911s. They also have a veritable shipload of 1911 choices as well.
For an out of the box (so to speak I would never trust any gun right out of the box) reliable .45 there are lots of options but for me personally I probably fall into the following camps.
HK 45’s any of them full size or compact. HK, strangely as they are Eurocentric, make a hell of a good .45 handgun
Glock 21, 41, 30.
SIG P220/P220 compact/P245
There are, of course others, but those would be my top tier choices.
As for 1911s I own a Colt and an Ed Brown so I am certainly not anti or ill informed on 1911s. I just think there are simply better defensive weapon options in 2021. Does it make you wrong if the 1911 is your .45 chucker of choice? Nope, whatever works for you God bless you shoot safe enjoy in good health. They just aren’t my defensive go to of choice.
The point is the OP has options from most major players today that are darn good guns in .45 that are not 1911s. They also have a veritable shipload of 1911 choices as well.
101combatvet
New member
Huh? You wrote it, and it looks pretty clear as to the meaning.
If you want to tell me what I meant by my own words, more power to you. If you want to quote me and ignore the rest of the context, more power to you as well. I’ve been down this road with members in the past. If you need more clarification feel free to pm me. Otherwise have a good night.
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101combatvet
New member
No clarification is needed; it's written in plain English. You are welcome to rephrase it if you desire; however, it won't change the fact that the 1911 is one of the best pistols ever made.
Groundhog34
New member
Springfield XDM E
Any HK
Any Glock
Any CZ
Any HK
Any Glock
Any CZ
lll Otto lll
New member
SIG discontinued the P220. It's now the P220 Legion.
The Legion has an inferior finish (PVD vs. Nitron), crappy sights (X-Ray vs. Dot), front cocking serrations vs. none and other differences as well.
Since the Classic P220 was discontinued, prices have escalated above msrp (assuming you can still find one).
CZ's are a better value, have a higher capacity and every bit as accurate.
The negatives with a 97B would be polycoat finish, heavier weight, mediocre sights and a less than optimum trigger. But I still recommend it.
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