Looking At 5 diffrent pistols! Need any and all advice!

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Another vote for the Glock or Beretta.

I've got an early Beretta 92 (Italian made, no decocker, safety on the frame), and it's a great gun.

I don't much care for the Glock because it doesn't fit my hand worth a poopstick, but they've got a great reputation for a very good reason.

I know two people with Sigpros, and they're not all that happy with them for a variety of small reasons, nothing major.
 
"Of the ones you mention, the Glock is rated to handle 9mm NATO ammo, and Beretta says that their 92 series pistols will handle +P+ but note that it will shorten the life of the gun."

:confused:

Given that the Beretta is the sidearm for at least 2 NATO countries (US & Italy), and US military 9mm is loaded to NATO specs, shouldn't the 92 also be 9mm NATO rated?

Or are the military guns different?
 
I don't know what happened to this site and some of it's previously reasonable posters, but this thread, among others, is a joke. A person asks for honest advice and this is what he gets? Sundance telling him to run from Sig Pro's after he handled one once. Thanks, but a knowledgable reply might have been nice.

Bob Locke says the Pro felt like a 'piece of junk' due to ergonomics. Since when did personal taste in a gun's grip factor into it's quality? Doesn't fit you? Fine. A poorly made firearm? Hardly.

Then even the admittedly Sig biased Ala Dan goes off on an uncharacteristic information-less flame job on the Pro's. Dude, unless P.O.S. means 'Perfectly Operational Sidearm' in your vocabulary you need to get off the hooch. I have only owned 'classic' Sig's, P220, P228 and P229, but my brother has a 2340 that I have shot a lot. While the grip doesn't fit me, I am positive they will be just as reliable as any other Sig. I've also never read of any real problem people have had with them. If it feels comfortable to you like it does to my brother it is a good choice. This 'elitist' classic Sig mentality is ignorant.

All the recent Glock vs. P99 talk is also very tired. Both are very good firearms, and if your preference is for one over the other then just shut up and enjoy your choice of weapon.

As to your quesion Humanfly, they are all fine choices that would serve you well, you just need to see which one fits you the best. The Beretta is a large gun, but a fine shooter. The Glock, well it's a Glock, and if you like their trigger only safety and feel then go for it. I just aquired a P99 and it is the most comfotable gun I've owned and points great. It is fairly easy to conceal for a gun of it's capacity, easier than my P220 or the Sig Pro. I am confidant it will prove to be a very reliable weapon, as many on here with a lot of experience with them will tell you. The Sig Pro's are very nice medium size guns built by a company reknowned for the reliability of their weapons and don't feel 'plastic' like Glocks or even the P99. Try to find a post about actual problems with one...you'll be a long time looking. And with the 2340 you can get barrels for .40, .357sig and 9mm for the same gun. If the grip fits you and is comfortable, they are fine guns. Listen to CastleBravo and get the one that feels best to you.
 
Att: USofA,

Pal, I'm overly concerned about your experience with Sig-Sauer
firearms?:confused: The reason being, most people that post
on this forum know that there is a great distinction between
Sig-Pro's, and the "classic" P-series of fine Sig-Sauer firearms.
Personally, I think the introduction of the Sig-Pro by SigArms
was a rip at the money-making Glock idea; which in my humble
opinion, should never have been.:eek: When a company that
is a "major player" in the firearms industry produces the finest
product on the market, why change?:D FYI, in rating polymer
framed firearm's, I rate the H&K USP far above and ahead of
the SigPro's.
If you are so in love with your brother's SigPro,
why not buy one yourself? I'm sure SigArms would like to have
the profit's. You did mention in your post of owning a Sig P220,
P228, and P229; but you failed to mention what you found wrong
with them? Needless to say, I'm unimpressed with your knowledge of Sig-Sauer firearms.

And lastly before exiting this thread, if the SigPro's are so great,
where is the .45 ACP caliber Sig-Pro model? IMHO, SigPro's are
very similar to Smith & Wesson's Sigma series; both qualify for
the deserving term "P.O.S.", and it ain't what you think it is my
friend.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
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Bob Locke says the Pro felt like a 'piece of junk' due to ergonomics. Since when did personal taste in a gun's grip factor into it's quality? Doesn't fit you? Fine. A poorly made firearm? Hardly.
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Please cut and paste the part of my post where I said it was a "poorly made firearm". Thanks.

My experience with the Sig Pro series came from the business side of the gun counter. We sold six of them, and ended up sending half of them back to the factory for one problem or another. Despite that, I never called them "poorly made".

That being said, I don't see Sig making any huge in-roads into the polymer market volume wise, primarily because their product is inferior to those manufacturers who are already established in that market (Glock, H&K, and even Walther). They make some of the finest pistols in the world in their classic series. My recommendation to them would be to stay with what they know how to do VERY well.

And if you're going to quote people, and me in particular, make some effort at being accurate. It's pretty easy to here with that little "Quote" button up there.
 
Bob Locke,

I don't see Sig making any huge in-roads into the polymer market volume wise, primarily because their product is inferior to those manufacturers who are already established in that market (Glock, H&K, and even Walther).
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More likely is that they refuse to spend a dime advertising it. ;) I'm beginning to get the hunch that the SIGpro's sole reason for existance is to let SIG to at least make an effort to compete with Glock for sales to smaller LE departments that don't have the budget for their P-series guns. The few that trickle out to the civvie handgun market are almost a token effort. (Heck, what percentage of SIGpros you see for sale at gun shows are Blue Line guns? 1/3? 1/2?)

Humanfly,

Five guns listed, no real dogs in the group.

SIGpro 2340 & 2009: I wonder what the reaction to these guns would have been if SIG had marketed them under a different brand name? They're not half bad little guns; modular grip, decent trigger. If their big brothers weren't so popular, the SIGpros might be viewed more favorably. Downsides: no non-gelded mags available; for reasons unknown, SIG abanoned their trademark easy takedown lever in these for a conventional slide lock takedown. Lastly (and this is purely subjective opinion) these things are just kind of blah, and not even in the charming defiantly ugly way that Glocks are.

Walther P99: Really nice pistols; best trigger on a polymer gun. Good ergos for most folks, and very accurate. Although a price reduction is rumoured, most of the ones I've seen are kind of spendy. No non-gelded mags, leather is still kinda scarce, and the otherwise slick mechanicals are marred by the annoyingly unconventional pushbutton decocker atop the slide.

Glock 17: It's a Glock. Reliable, homely, sproingy trigger, nearly indestructable, accurate enough, scads of accessories and gizmos and holsters are available, non-gelded mags are available but priced like imported sin.

Beretta 92FS: Good accuracy, humungous grip diameter, the cheapest 15-round mags around, lots of leather and accessories available, attractive lines, big as a house, wierd monkeytail safety/decocker.
 
I have the Glock and the Beretta. They are both fine pistols. The beretta fits my hand a little better, but I'm more accurate with the Glock. I have to work harder to shoot the Beretta straight. I'm happy with both guns. As far as the others go, I haven't got a clue.
 
Originally posted by Mike Irwin:
"Of the ones you mention, the Glock is rated to handle 9mm NATO ammo, and Beretta says that their 92 series pistols will handle +P+ but note that it will shorten the life of the gun."
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Given that the Beretta is the sidearm for at least 2 NATO countries (US & Italy), and US military 9mm is loaded to NATO specs, shouldn't the 92 also be 9mm NATO rated?
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Hello Mike,

I didn't say that the Beretta wasn't rated for 9mm NATO ammo.

I don't have a Beretta or a Beretta Owner's Manual, so I do not know which ammo Beretta recommends for their civilian pistols. (The info that I gave on the Beretta is from another TFL'er) Please take a look at the owner's manual for your Beretta, and let us know.
I'm sorry if I gave bad information.

The Glock Owner's Manual states that 9mm NATO ammo is acceptable for use in the Glock.

The original point that I was trying to make, is that IMO, the Glock (and the Ruger) are more durable guns than the Beretta.
 
More likely is that they refuse to spend a dime advertising it. I'm beginning to get the hunch that the SIGpro's sole reason for existance is to let SIG to at least make an effort to compete with Glock for sales to smaller LE departments that don't have the budget for their P-series guns. The few that trickle out to the civvie handgun market are almost a token effort.
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To me, it's a wasted effort on their part. The smaller PD's and SD's are going to get such a great deal from Glock that Sig won't be able to compete in there financially, IMO. If they want to get a larger share of the LE market then they're going to have to find a way to save a little on the manufacturing costs of the P-series so they can pass that along, and they're going to have to do it without sacrificing in the quality department. Tough row to hoe. I see Glock continuing to dominate the LE market for the forseeable future.

And you KNOW something's gone wrong when a Glock Guy thinks your guns feels like a piece of junk in his hands! :D
 
I'm in agreement with my friend, Mr. Bob Locke

As I see it, SigArms has no business in the polymer
frame gun business. Sig "classic" P-series firearm's sell themselves; no need for any gimmick's, sales
campaign's, or any other method of "showmanship"
by sales people.:) Most dealers have a hard time
keeping the most popular model's in stock.:D Heck,
as long as I'm alive and well SigArms won't have to worry
about going belly up.:cool:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
humanfly,

of the firearms that you have listed, i have only experience with the walther p-99. it is my opinion that this is a very fine firearm. i have fired some 5-7k <yes, i know...been slacking> rounds through it in the last year. ergnomicswise it can comfortably fit my hand <i'm 6'2", large hands> and my wife's hand <4'11", small hands>. i like the trigger setup better than those of the glocks, which i have fired a great deal. my suggestion would be to go to a range that rents them all and toss a few rounds from all of them.

Adept
 
Mark,

Ok, the fault may possibly be mine, here.

It is my understanding that ammo loaded to 9mm NATO generally IS the equivilent of American +P+ ammo, possibly a little more.

If I'm wrong about that, and +P+ is loaded to higher pressures than 9mm NATO, please let me know.
 
Bob Locke

I owned a Sig P239 for three years, and when I picked up a Sig Pro Series pistol it just felt like a piece of junk in my hand.
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You are absolutely right Bob, I completely mis-quoted you. I had forgotten that in popular American vernacular 'piece of junk' is synonymous with 'well-crafted'. Give me a break.

Ala Dan

I don't care if you think Sig Sauer should have made the Pro's or not, and I doubt they have called you to get your opinion on future product releases or marketing decisions. Whether or not they make inroads into LEO circles or take market share from Glock is irrelevant to the original posters question. The question was for information on the quality/reliability/functionality of the gun, to which your infantile answer added absolutely nothing. And where did I state that I loved the Pro? I actually said it didn't fit me well but I felt it would be reliable. As far as my previous Sig's, I thought very highly of all of them and did not state otherwise, but I have many interests and will change my personal inventory as I desire. I recently aquired another P220 as my personal defense arm. The fact that I prefer that gun does not mean the Pro's are junk. You apparently believe your beloved Sig engineers have decided to throw out their hard-earned reputation for building very high quality firearms by introducing an inferior product. I believe they are smarter than you do, and every honest assessment I have heard from actual experienced owners backs that up.

You can continue to throw grade school insults all you want, but it is very simple...all I want is honest opinions and experiences from experienced users of the guns I inquire about, and I would bet everyone else does also.
 
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