Long time shooter, first time on a reload bench.

[F. Guffey]

Case over all length doesn't tell you if the shoulder got pushed back where it belongs.
The case length only gauges are cheaper, but they give you no idea if the case sides are pushed in enough or the shoulder is pushed back far enough (or too far).

that depends on who is operating the gage.

The point I was trying to make,
A case gauge gives you TWO checks, Go/NoGo gauges in one tool.
Pretty handy for the beginner and advanced reloader alike...

The point I was trying to make,
A case gauge gives you TWO checks, Go/NoGo gauges in one tool.
Pretty handy for the beginner and advanced reloader alike...

There are reloaders that never move beyond beginning


I can explain it to you; I can not comprehend it for you. In the beginning the Wilson case gage was a datum based tool. From the beginning Wilson suggested using a straight edge. They explained to the reloader a pocket rule could be used as a straight edge. Now we move on to measuring light, I had an opportunity to purchase a light gage, not a gage that measured intensity/brightness but a gage that measures width. It did not take me long to determine I did not need the gage. So I purchased a Pratt and Whitney electronic gage. I removed the electronics because I had absolutely no use for a gage that measured down to .000005”. And heavy, a most stable platform and smooth running, so I installed a dial indicator on the stylist.

Back to the Wilson case gage. I have micrometers and gages, I also have the companion to the press tool; the feeler gage. The feeler gage with the straight edge pocket turns my Wilson case gage into a precision gage. Forget go-gage, no go-gage. A straight edge and a feeler gage turns my datum based tools in to precession gages that measure the length of a case from the shoulder to the head of the case in thousands. That means it measures the length of all cases in thousands from minimum length to a practical field reject length.

Back to go and no go; you omitted minimum length. Minimum length for a 30/06 case would be .005” shorter than a go-gage length chamber. And then there is no go-gage length. How do you measure no go gage length with a Wilson case gage; with your thumb nail?

I catch on fast; I use a straight edge and a feeler gage. I measure the gap between the straight edge and Wilson case gage. Because I am a multi-tasker I can use a flat surface like a lay out table/set up table. And for about $125.00 dollars a reloader can purchase a tool that measures case height/protrusion from barrels and gages. The tool is datum based and has a dial indicator. I know, it could pride, I do not have so much pride that I would allow myself to be driven to spend that kind of money to do a job I can do with a feeler gage and a straight edge. Then there are those that understand the datum, they do not need the gage,

I can explain it to you, comprehending is something you have to work out.

F. Guffey

 

[F. Guffey]

If you don't want to use a case gauge, then don't.

Who said they do not recommending using a case gage? I will be going to a gun parts store tomorrow, the first thing I will check is the barrel of barrels. There is a chance there is a barrel I do not have with a chamber I do not have. I have purchased worn out barrels for $5.00 each. I have cut off saws for everything; for those things that burn up my blades I have grinders. Then there are those barrels that are not worn out. Then there are new barrels, I use those barrels as chamber gages, same thing. Case head protrusion and the chamber is a datum based tool for those that understand tools, micrometers and gages.

F. Guffey

Then I said it is possible to measure the diameter of the case body with a Wilson case gage, it is not my job to convince anyone it is possible.

I have placed cases into gages with the case head first. I have placed case heads into dies with the case head first. In my little short life I have found dies that could be called small base dies if the reloader could size the base of the case. Point; the base of the die is small in diameter; problem; the dies were not stamped SB as in small base.

 

[JeepHammer]

Well, that was unusual...

I can't see buying a granite inspection table, pointer index compairitor & base,
Or using lasers to inspect a rifle case.
Especially when you are new to reloading and just trying to knock out some rounds that function safely & reliably.

To each his own.
Commercial case gauges have always worked for me and everyone I know,
And apparently a lot of other people on this forum since they get recommended on about every 'Newbie' thread.
For $20 and available everywhere, ready to run out of the box they aren't a bad deal in my book...

Every once in a while I find a chamber the gauge doesn't get along with,
So I simply order a different brand, for $20 its not worth the aggrivation of tooling up to cut a custom gauge.
If I'm cutting a chamber and already have the reamers/polishers out, I might cut one for a bench rifle, but I really see no point in it for a common chamber/round.

 

[JeepHammer]

Well, I don't know how this got sidetracked so badly,
But the OP, "Layman" probably won't be back since he posted twice for general beginner advice,
And the thread took a left turn into the twilight zone...

Since he never mentioned what caliber he was reloading for,
Or what rifle he was loading for,
All the bench rifle and imagined stuff only serves to confuse...

"I am the only reloader that can measure the diameter of a case with a case gauge."

Bold Statment, and not accurate.
The first glairing omission is, with ONLY A SINGLE case gauge there is no way to measure anything without an instrument of some kind.

Second,
The same way industry measures tapered bores/pistons,
With an extruded gauge filiment (Plasti-Gauge).
This would give you a full case length reading, not just head movment in the case gauge.

A gauge wire would let you reach into the gap between case and case gauge, giving an accurate determination of the gap,
Unlike a flat feeler gauge.

Like Unclenick suggested, and I use myself,
A last word indicator in the primer pocket hole or case neck to determine how undersized the brass is compaired to the case gauge.
Simply zero and wobble the case in the case gauge.

I guess if someone was completely OCD,
You could have a custom Datum gauge made out of non-thermally reactive ceramic so temperature changes from handling the gauge didnt change the orifice diameter,
Then use a laser to measure the headspace length from datum point to case head, under scientifically controlled conditions.

Personally, I don't see any real benifit in that loading 100 yard practice/plinking ammo...
For practice/plinking ammo, the commercial case gauges will get you a safe/functioning round...
All for $20, what a deal!

 

[Unclenick]

Jeephammer,

The reason I brought up the custom gauge is, if you look at 603 Country's post as an example, you will see a commercial gauge that allows all fired brass to drop in cannot guarantee a round will fit or feed a particular chamber because it lacks maximum diameter determination. As a result, only if the case was originally fit and fired in the chamber you are loading for, and then you resized it, which narrows a case from its fireformed diameter, less springback, will the gauge tell you it is sure to fit. The commercial gauge will always tell you if your resized case needs trimming. If you started to size the case (which squeezes it long, first, and then sets the shoulder back) but failed to run the case up all the way into the die to set the shoulder back, it will tell you that because the head will protrude from above the back step more than the other cases.


Mauser69,

You are correct that I did not discuss custom case and cartridge dimensions based on a particular chamber. That is because the OP only asked why a load manual's drawing would not match a commercial cartridge. All the rest is added extra value on the same coupon.

 

[JeepHammer]

I get it entirely,
Most rifles will reliably feed/fire rounds run through a commercial case gauge,
No sense to re-invent the wheel.
*IF* you are in the minority that has a rifle that WILL NOT chamber or cycle a case prepped with a commercial gauge, then its time to look at options,
Small base dies, custom gauges, maybe a chamber check by a qualified person since its not something a 'Newbie' should probably jump off into without some experenced guidance.

In that case, I would have suspected the OP would have got back with someone and reported the 'Issue' to get advise...

It just seemed like when I suggested a $20 commercial case gauge to get a newbie in the ball park, it became a 'Pud' measuring contest with a right angle tangent on .30-06 family cases all at once....

Even commercial case gauges Vs. Eyeball Mk I is no contest,
The case gauge wins since you have a comparison starting point...
Start with the dies a little shallow, screw them down a little at a time, gauge the case until it fits into the maximum of the gauge,
Then check in the chamber, see if it fits the chamber tightly and the bolt closes.

If not, then screw the dies in a little more, the case *Should* fit a little deeper in the gauge,
The POINT is, the case gauge lets you know when you are making progress at a level the eyeball can't tell...

If you hit minimum on a case gauge and the brass still doesn't fit the chamber,
Its time to question the dies, gauge or chamber, and you need someone a little more experenced to run the issues by...

99% won't run into that issue, a commercial $20 case gauge will get you feeding/firing.
When the bug bites, and you want to tighten up the groups, get everything working better, and you have some experence,
THEN you start with the tricky/'Custom' made stuff...

Telling a guy he 'Must Have' custom chambers and case gauges made by a gun smith to reload practice/plinking ammo is rediclous, and a total waste of $300 to $600 in hard cash...
There are tons of guys that reload everyday without even a case gauge, although they should probably have one if for no other reason than to keep track of consistancy...