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Long Range?
- Thread starter Harry Bonar
- Start date
fisherman66
New member
But the miserable death statement applies to all " game animals "
Vermin are not listed as "game" in TX. While I would frown upon anyone intentionally torturing any animal, I've got no problem with my "double standard". Life nor death is fair.
Vermin are not listed as "game" in TX.
Actually ground hogs are listed as "small game" in VA where I hunt.
Mike
Harry Bonar
New member
long range
Sirs;
Finn Aagaard, African hunter, small game hunter, North American hunter and a man to boot - lately passed is who I'm going to listen to; and my own experience of watching people making fools of themselves and causing great suffering to unwounded game - seeing fools haul around a beautiful buck with five holes in him, or an elk, or undershooting a groundhog with his guts leading you to his hole, or other assorted idiots telling, "all about it" at the back of a pick-up truck with the poor deer hnging out with holes all in his guts - this is not hunting, it is idiocy and irresponsible behaviour.
On the other hand - an experienced hunter hunting elk at 90 yards with a 358 Winchester (now obsolete due to magnum-mania) who takes his game at a range he is comfortable with - now, this is hunting.
My late son and I 20 years ago went groundhog hunting and I shot five at under 200 yards and we threw the bodies in the woods on the way home - the sound of those bodies hitting the ground did something to me - something responsible - and I seldom hunted from then on unless it was necessary; and I ate what I shot!
Magnum mania, velocity crazed, hunters in this country are way overgunned! I know I'll get in trouble here but this is how I feel.
I love guns and build muzzle loaders as well - but I guess at 73 I've lost the "killer" in me.
Good shooting budies! Good hunting!
Harry B.
Sirs;
Finn Aagaard, African hunter, small game hunter, North American hunter and a man to boot - lately passed is who I'm going to listen to; and my own experience of watching people making fools of themselves and causing great suffering to unwounded game - seeing fools haul around a beautiful buck with five holes in him, or an elk, or undershooting a groundhog with his guts leading you to his hole, or other assorted idiots telling, "all about it" at the back of a pick-up truck with the poor deer hnging out with holes all in his guts - this is not hunting, it is idiocy and irresponsible behaviour.
On the other hand - an experienced hunter hunting elk at 90 yards with a 358 Winchester (now obsolete due to magnum-mania) who takes his game at a range he is comfortable with - now, this is hunting.
My late son and I 20 years ago went groundhog hunting and I shot five at under 200 yards and we threw the bodies in the woods on the way home - the sound of those bodies hitting the ground did something to me - something responsible - and I seldom hunted from then on unless it was necessary; and I ate what I shot!
Magnum mania, velocity crazed, hunters in this country are way overgunned! I know I'll get in trouble here but this is how I feel.
I love guns and build muzzle loaders as well - but I guess at 73 I've lost the "killer" in me.
Good shooting budies! Good hunting!
Harry B.
orionengnr
New member
Bruce Ardis (sorry if I spelled that wrong) from Pueblo, CO killed a prairie dog at 2.5 miles with an Ackley 308 using a 220 grain Sierra MK! He called it and nailed it in three rounds if memory serves me correctly.
Whoever said that it was a "stunt" hit it right on the head. If you have to take three shots to hit an animate object, regardless of the range, there is nothing ethical or sporting about that. The fact that the target is small makes no difference. Deer or 'dog, if you cannot hit and kill it cleanly with one shot, you have no business shooting at it in the first place.
JMHO, and I expect that some will disagree. Go ahead and pile on...
I've done lots AND I MEAN LOTS of long range shooting. But I like to seperate my long range shooting from hunting vs. targets.
I'm not saying I don't do long range shooting while hunting, but its limited.
Most of my elk hunting is with my 270 at limited ranges but I do play around a bit.
An example I determine what is the KE of a given bullet. Then I choose a rifle that will deliver the proper KE at a given range then determine the rifle I will use in a given hunting situation. Best example I can give, I hunt elk in the Big Horns. I like to pick open area above the timberline. Often I'll pick a spot above where people can get their ATV/4 Wheelers. Many people hunt off ATVs or should I say scare elk with ATVs. So I like to pick a likely spot where Elk cross in escaping ATVs. (I use horses). I set up and stay put. I range differant likely spots where critters will cross and make a range card. I set all day and wait. When I hunt like this, like I said I pick a rifle that will deliver the KE needed at extended ranges. When I hunt like this I use my 375. My load for my 375 delivers about the same energy at 400 yards as my 270 does at 200. And I dont hold over, I adjust for elevation. I aim for hair, not air. My 375 shoots a 270 grn bullet as flat and fast as my 1000 yard 30-06 Match Rifle does with 175s. This type of hunting, for me is an exception, not the rule.
Most of my hunting I do is with a 257 Roberts (deer and antelope) and a 270 Win for Elk, and is well under 300 yards. I like to stalk. But I dont like too close of shots. If a critter is spooked, as in shot at 100 yards or so. Its gonna run farther with a brisket shot then if its not spooked, as if its been shot at 200 + yards. Normal when a killing brisket shot is made, the critter humps up, and if not spooked, will run about 20 yards and stop. If its spooked by shooting too close or too often it can run a half mile or further before it dies making it harder to fine.
I'm not adversed to long range hunting, if one knows what he is doing and knows his rifle.
Like Mr Dirty Hairy says. "A man has to know his limitations".
Yeah I agee that there are too many muffed shots with people who dont know what they are doing shooting at extended ranges. But I believe there are far more muffed shots by people shooting at running game. Very few people know how to shoot moving targets. Very few know how. To show what I mean, Figure how fast your bullet travels. Figure you MV and the Velocity at a given range. That will give you an ideal how long it takes you bullet to reach a given target.
Exp: My 270 averages .44 sec to travel 400 yards. An elk runs when spooked about 18 MPH or 26.46 fps. that means one has to provide a maintained lead of 11.76 feet. I believe few people realize this, and fewer yet can comput those number in the head during the few seconds a running critter is in sight.
I guess what I'm saying is that shooting, wheather its hunting or target shooting is more then zeroing a rifle and pulling the trigger.
Both long range shooting and shooting moving targets can be done if one does his homework and 'knows his limitations".
JMHO
I'm not saying I don't do long range shooting while hunting, but its limited.
Most of my elk hunting is with my 270 at limited ranges but I do play around a bit.
An example I determine what is the KE of a given bullet. Then I choose a rifle that will deliver the proper KE at a given range then determine the rifle I will use in a given hunting situation. Best example I can give, I hunt elk in the Big Horns. I like to pick open area above the timberline. Often I'll pick a spot above where people can get their ATV/4 Wheelers. Many people hunt off ATVs or should I say scare elk with ATVs. So I like to pick a likely spot where Elk cross in escaping ATVs. (I use horses). I set up and stay put. I range differant likely spots where critters will cross and make a range card. I set all day and wait. When I hunt like this, like I said I pick a rifle that will deliver the KE needed at extended ranges. When I hunt like this I use my 375. My load for my 375 delivers about the same energy at 400 yards as my 270 does at 200. And I dont hold over, I adjust for elevation. I aim for hair, not air. My 375 shoots a 270 grn bullet as flat and fast as my 1000 yard 30-06 Match Rifle does with 175s. This type of hunting, for me is an exception, not the rule.
Most of my hunting I do is with a 257 Roberts (deer and antelope) and a 270 Win for Elk, and is well under 300 yards. I like to stalk. But I dont like too close of shots. If a critter is spooked, as in shot at 100 yards or so. Its gonna run farther with a brisket shot then if its not spooked, as if its been shot at 200 + yards. Normal when a killing brisket shot is made, the critter humps up, and if not spooked, will run about 20 yards and stop. If its spooked by shooting too close or too often it can run a half mile or further before it dies making it harder to fine.
I'm not adversed to long range hunting, if one knows what he is doing and knows his rifle.
Like Mr Dirty Hairy says. "A man has to know his limitations".
Yeah I agee that there are too many muffed shots with people who dont know what they are doing shooting at extended ranges. But I believe there are far more muffed shots by people shooting at running game. Very few people know how to shoot moving targets. Very few know how. To show what I mean, Figure how fast your bullet travels. Figure you MV and the Velocity at a given range. That will give you an ideal how long it takes you bullet to reach a given target.
Exp: My 270 averages .44 sec to travel 400 yards. An elk runs when spooked about 18 MPH or 26.46 fps. that means one has to provide a maintained lead of 11.76 feet. I believe few people realize this, and fewer yet can comput those number in the head during the few seconds a running critter is in sight.
I guess what I'm saying is that shooting, wheather its hunting or target shooting is more then zeroing a rifle and pulling the trigger.
Both long range shooting and shooting moving targets can be done if one does his homework and 'knows his limitations".
JMHO
fisherman66
New member
Both long range shooting and shooting moving targets can be done if one does his homework and 'knows his limitations".
Sure, but many guys in the woods with a rifle think they are Jack O's prodigal son. How does one honestly separate what they think and what they know? That's tough on deer.
How does one honestly separate what they think and what they know?
Take a range finder get in the woods and try to guess the range to a given point then range it with the range finder..... It's a humblling experiance.
If you don't have a range finder and want to shoot at extended ranges , get one, or don't even try it on game animals. I know one person who " most " of the time is within 20-30 yards at extended ranges and that's not close enough. He uses a rangefinder. Millet scopes will get you close but close only counts in horseshoes and handgenades.
One must HONESTLY appraise thier skill.
Mike
fisherman66
New member
Thanks mkg. I was being facetious. We all have a tendency to overscore our abilities. Real life has a tendency to show us our errors in judgement, but in hunting the only one who suffers is the gutshot or otherwise wounded animal.
I may be able to ring a gong at 500 yards. It would be folly to try that in the woods for me without a chronied load, rangefinder and knowledge about the ballistic path and how the conditions affect the bullet's flight.
I may be able to ring a gong at 500 yards. It would be folly to try that in the woods for me without a chronied load, rangefinder and knowledge about the ballistic path and how the conditions affect the bullet's flight.
fisherman66,
You made a very good point , I wasn't directing my post at you . It is something that if we intend to hunt at extended ranges we need to do , evaluate our skills . A range finder will help us to do just that.
I will go one step further , it would be irresponsible / foolish for ANYONE to try hunting at extended range without the information you listed . Yet the info alone dosen't mean we have the ability to make the shot. That ability is gained through practice in field conditions.
Mike
You made a very good point , I wasn't directing my post at you . It is something that if we intend to hunt at extended ranges we need to do , evaluate our skills . A range finder will help us to do just that.
It would be folly to try that in the woods for me without a chronied load, rangefinder and knowledge about the ballistic path and how the conditions affect the bullet's flight.
I will go one step further , it would be irresponsible / foolish for ANYONE to try hunting at extended range without the information you listed . Yet the info alone dosen't mean we have the ability to make the shot. That ability is gained through practice in field conditions.
Mike
fisherman66
New member
I will go one step further , it would be irresponsible / foolish for ANYONE to try hunting at extended range without the information you listed . Yet the info alone dosen't mean we have the ability to make the shot. That ability is gained through practice in field conditions.
I agree Mike. Those with the skills to make that shot know who they are and I am not going to pretend I know what's best within those limits. I like/prefer to get close for the experience and to take a shot that will almost eliminate bloodshot meat - neck shot. The problem lies in that there are lots of Bubbas that THINK they can at 500 yards. I helped a lease member trail a deer that was very poorly shot. We'd spot ruminated grass and corn every 5 to 10 yards. We never found that deer, but the heard the songdogs ringing the dinner bell that evening. I felt sick the entire time I was trailing and probably pushing the wounded deer.