Long range target shooting caliber

This weekend I was pulling targets and the shooter on my firing point needed extra shots, at 600 yards, for his new long range rifle in 260 Remington. That is an excellent caliber. A couple of weeks ago, a bud was zeroing his rebarreled long range rifle, and it was in 6.5 X 55 Swede.

I think the 6.5 Swede a better choice in the long action and maybe a better choice overall as you can push the bullet just as fast as a Rem 260 but at lower pressure. Both rounds are wonderfully accurate and ballistic ally better than a 308.

You would be hopelessly outclassed trying to shoot this in a long range match, the trigger is too heavy, the stock too light, scope is not click adjustable, but it makes a good hunting rifle.



 
While few consumers shoot more than 10 shots per test group, arsenals and some ammo company accuracy tests get a few dozen to a few hundred shots per test group. And a 30 caliber precision test barrel screwed into an M1903 Springfield action laid in a Mann rest is only going to last for seven or eight 250 round test groups of 30 caliber ammo. When 99% confidence is needed for several thousand rounds in an ammo lot, such tests prove it's as good as specs require.

A good marksman can tell if his ammo's good by noting how far impact is from where the shots are called. Easy to do in calm conditions at 600 yards with a scope; a few can tell with aperture sights. If any shots strike more than 1/3 to 1/2 MOA from call, the ammo lot's questionable for accuracy. Which is why such skills can be used to sight in an accurate rifle and ammo with two shots standing on ones hind legs and not using a sling.

A good example is the 270-shot test group of M118 7.62 National Match ammo made for the 1965 Nationals shown about 7/8ths down in the following link:

http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=512887

Note those few bullet holes about 5 inches out from group center; the group's about 10 inches or 1.67 MOA at 600 yards. Mean radius of all shots from group center is 1.9 inches. Normally, max group size is about 3.2 times larger than mean radius but there's enough wide shots in that group to counter that claim. Some of the National Match lots in later years had about the same mean radius but smaller composite diameters.

Also interesting is the National Match ammo accuracy in the graph below that group.
 
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Slam fire-- with that scope you would not be allowed to compete. Nice looking rig for sure
Click to expand...

Sure he could. Not as a MR, but he could shoot F Class.

No, he won't win, but he could challenge himself and have fun.
 
but he could challenge himself and have fun.

I shot my scoped .303 in open F class for this very reason, and because the other classes I had available to me didn't allow anything but current military calibres (which for me boiled down to .308Win/7.62 NATO and .223 Rem/5.56 NATO).
 
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Slam fire-- with that scope you would not be allowed to compete. Nice looking rig for sure
Sure he could. Not as a MR, but he could shoot F Class.

No, he won't win, but he could challenge himself and have fun.

Emcon5--Any scope that needs a screwdriver or fingernail or ect is not allowed in F Class. If it does not have turrets you don't shoot F Class- This is what they tell us in NRA Matches. Any rifle can be used,but the scopes have to be turret type or no go.
 
Can't disagree with you Bart I am new at this,but it is Honest to god what we were told. Turret type scopes only. I will have to have a chat with Gordy the NRA guy that runs these Matches and see if that is NRA rule or maybe his own personnel rule. Will get back to you on this one.
 
Emcon5--Any scope that needs a screwdriver or fingernail or ect is not allowed in F Class. If it does not have turrets you don't shoot F Class- This is what they tell us in NRA Matches. Any rifle can be used,but the scopes have to be turret type or no go.
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If he showed up for a match and was not allowed to shoot, then the match director is jerk. If another competitor protested a beginning shooter for having a non-turret scope, they would also be jerks.

NRA needs to be encouraging new competitors, and that is exactly how not to do it.

Everywhere I ever shot (luckily run by non-jerks), had a fun class. Hell, if it was me, I would not only let him shoot, but give him the option of shooting at the regular MR target instead of the much harder F-Class target.


On Edit: Sorry Brian, thought that one was OK.
 
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Bart- After I read your post I also went and looked at the same rules. I did not see it in there either. This is going to raise some questions when I see him again.
This is my first year at F Class so I am the rookie out there and just want to get along with all. The last match of the year is over,but that will give me all winter to read through all the rules.

Emcon5-- Sorry for the mis information.
 
Well from the F Class people themselves
Here is my e mail to them and there reply


Hello there. Say I have a question for you. I have been told the non turret style scopes are not allowed in F Class. Is this correct?. I hope I have this right- The scopes you use a screwdriver or penny to turn your setting. Se...

S
Shiraz Balolia
shiraz@grizzly.com
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To:
44runnerman
Date:
October 30, 2013, 9:18 PM
Not true - you can use any scope you like with whatever turrets your heart desires.

________________________________________
From: 4runnerman [4runnerman@cableone.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:00 PM
To: captain@usfclass.com
Subject: Scopes
 
To MNoirot,

Dunno what kind of .308 you are shooting that lets you down past 500yds. I'm thinking you'll just see those results magnified by going to a larger recoiling, heavier powder-charged cartridge.

If what you're looking for is accuracy and precision, the ticket is lesser caliber cartridges with super-high ballistic coeficient, and case capacity at optimum to deliver the velocity you need at distance you anticipate.

One cartridge comes to mind, as a great 1000yd performer; the 6mm XC designed by David Tubb. The ctg is basically a 6mm International with AI'd shoulder. I have a 6mm/22-250 AI which is .001 longer in case dimension, otherwise identical. This cartridge will deliver very high BC match bullets with minimum recoil and also with substantially better barrel life, than items like the .243, and 6.5/284.

As far as 1000yd range results go, in 2008 or 9, Dominion Rifle Club of Canada posted results of .223rem fired with 90gr JLK and Sierra Matchking bullets in a very in-depth test. Groups averaged a vertical spread of about 2" in 15 or 20 shot groups, all fired from bolt gun w/1:6.5 twist barrel at 1000yds. The potential is there. A high BC bullet with minimal recoil can deliver the goods.

To get consistent accuracy and precision, really have to have all the variables dialed-in. I have seen scope mounts play a big role in my efforts, and even the ability to set precise inch pound torque values on action and sight mount system has made a difference. Then there is the shooter's ability to read the wind and mirage...

Maybe all you need to get your .308win performing as you'd like is a canted scope base and quality tracking optic with lots of elevation adjustment? Lots of variables to deal with, but rather doubtful going to a .30 magnum or other LongRange performer is going to bring you what you want until you solve the variables at work with your .308...

Of course, you don't really describe your rifle or the ammunition you're using. You just seem to want a purchase solution. Buy something like a Sako TRG-42 and maybe your results will change if you're having rifle problems. If the problems are of your own making, then the new rifle won't likely do any better; in fact due to much heavier recoil, may deliver even worse results. Best to KNOW how all the variables interact and have experience isolating and solving them.

Wish you the best of luck!
 
If I was looking for a rifle to shoot "flat" out past 500m and didn't want to punish my shoulder, I think I'd look seriously at 7mm-08. If you're already into reloading, that round can easily shoot out to 800-1000m and can also be quite a competent round for hunting anything you'll find in North America (well, maybe not the largest bear...but anything else).

I had been eyeballing the Tikka T3 in 7mm-08 for this purpose, but have recently gotten distracted with "the evil black rifle bug". :)

Best,
 
While the 7-08 had its day in high power rifle competition back in the 1990's, it gave way to 6.5mm and 6mm cartridges by the early 2000's. The lighter bullets in those 26 and 24 caliber cartridges makes them easier to shoot accurately. Albeit at the expense of shorter barrel life. Today's popular choice for shoulder fired rifles in long range matches is the 6.5x.284. Get one in good Savage rifle if you're buying a commercial one.

The .264 Win Mag's a very flat shooting cartridge past 500 yards. Mine was great in long range matches. . .for 640 rounds.
 
While that is true, the original poster was having trouble getting .308 to behave past 500 yards. That's likely not someone trying to compete nationally/internationally as a benchrest shooter. For us mere mortals, 7mm-08 is a good balance between tolerable recoil, the ability to reach out and touch something at 800-1000m, and the ability to perform as a deer/elk/small bear harvester...all without the punishing recoil inherent with pushing larger projectiles out that far and that fast.

Best,
 
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how does 25-06 compare to some of the other smaller caliber cartridges. Picked up a savage earlier this year and am trying to decide if I want to get into shooting it enough to start reloading. Commercial ammo for it isn't cheap, nor readily available in at my local shooting shops. I am considering entering some local competitions.
 
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