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Long range rifle competitions?
- Thread starter achilles00775
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
Careful, that is an expensive habit; and a period type .22 single shot is just the tip of the iceberg. A good .45-70 or such is an expensive rifle and loading good ammunition for it is demanding and time consuming.
The SR42 Highpower target is very close to the old 200yard Smallbore target. The .22 is surprisingly accurate even at that distance. Standard velocity ammunition is more accurate. Shooting at 200 yards with a .22 is similar to a highpower rifle shooting at 1000yards. Really have to watch the wind but it's a trip trying to shoot X's.do you think it's possible for someone to try (at the very most) also up to 200 yards with the .22lr?
achilles00775
Re long range rifle competition, not this "F class", I used to shoot 1000 yard competition at Camp Perry, Ohio, excluding the Nationals, the Ohio
Rifle and Pistol Association used to have regularly scheduled matches at Camp Perry. these included both The National Match Course (200, 300 and 600 yards), and 1000 yard matches fired with "service rifles", back then they were Garands and M1A's , some still fired Springfields. NRA Match Rifles were bolt actions, fired with "iron sights" or scopes, as per the match program.
Also fired NMC and Long Range competition at Quantico MCB, and Stone Bay, Camp Lejeune, Jacksonville, N.C. There were regularly scheduled matches at these locations, also Cherry Point MCAS, Havelock, N.C.
Re Quantico, check with MCDEC there, or contact the base itself. Ditto for other military installations, which usually have a "Rod and Gun Club" on post. I'm no longer active in high power rifle competition, however I would assume that shooting goes on at these locations.
Re long range rifle competition, not this "F class", I used to shoot 1000 yard competition at Camp Perry, Ohio, excluding the Nationals, the Ohio
Rifle and Pistol Association used to have regularly scheduled matches at Camp Perry. these included both The National Match Course (200, 300 and 600 yards), and 1000 yard matches fired with "service rifles", back then they were Garands and M1A's , some still fired Springfields. NRA Match Rifles were bolt actions, fired with "iron sights" or scopes, as per the match program.
Also fired NMC and Long Range competition at Quantico MCB, and Stone Bay, Camp Lejeune, Jacksonville, N.C. There were regularly scheduled matches at these locations, also Cherry Point MCAS, Havelock, N.C.
Re Quantico, check with MCDEC there, or contact the base itself. Ditto for other military installations, which usually have a "Rod and Gun Club" on post. I'm no longer active in high power rifle competition, however I would assume that shooting goes on at these locations.
Ideal Tool
Moderator
Your list didn't include the mid range..up to 600yds. or the long range 1000yds + black powder matches..both breech & muzzle loaders.
200 yd. prone .22 matches were quite common at Perry, Seagirt, etc.
200 yd. prone .22 matches were quite common at Perry, Seagirt, etc.
IDEAL tOOL:
Re the shooting that you think I didn't list, please reread my post.
Regarding black powdwer cartridge competition, Mike Venterino writes of it quite often, see Rifle and or Handloader magazines. Some of his stuff is quite interesting and informative, depending on one's interests.
As to 200 yard 22 rim fire competition at Seagirt, as in New Jersey, right, I never got involved much in small bore competition. Also, Seagirt was years and years ago, wasn't it? I first shot at Camp Perry in 1970 or '71. As to shooting a 22 rf at 200 yards there, what with the way the wind sometimes blows, that would be quite a challenge. I do not recall evwer seeing 200 yard 22 rf shooting there, but I might have missed something interesting.
Actually shooting the NMC + 1000 yards with center fire rifles (30-06 and 308) was quite enough for me, but to each their own.
Re the shooting that you think I didn't list, please reread my post.
Regarding black powdwer cartridge competition, Mike Venterino writes of it quite often, see Rifle and or Handloader magazines. Some of his stuff is quite interesting and informative, depending on one's interests.
As to 200 yard 22 rim fire competition at Seagirt, as in New Jersey, right, I never got involved much in small bore competition. Also, Seagirt was years and years ago, wasn't it? I first shot at Camp Perry in 1970 or '71. As to shooting a 22 rf at 200 yards there, what with the way the wind sometimes blows, that would be quite a challenge. I do not recall evwer seeing 200 yard 22 rf shooting there, but I might have missed something interesting.
Actually shooting the NMC + 1000 yards with center fire rifles (30-06 and 308) was quite enough for me, but to each their own.
Ideal Tool
Moderator
Hello, alan..yes The days of Seagirt are long past..But as to shooting rimfire at 200yds., I used to shoot at a local Schuetzen club..both centerfire & rimfire. Most rimfire shooting was 50yds..but there was a 200yd. match. One fellow was using a BSA martini Mk. 3 I believe..the model with steel forend hanger. He was keeping all his shots in 1 1/4"..and there was a breeze blowing! That guy could read those wind flags!
Ideal Tool:
Are you saying that this gentleman shot 1.25" groups at 200 yards with a 22 rf rifle, if so, he must have been the personification of a human machine rest. I also wonder as to where he got ammunition capable of such accuracy.
As to the days of Seagirt being "long past", that isn't the only thing that could be so described.
Are you saying that this gentleman shot 1.25" groups at 200 yards with a 22 rf rifle, if so, he must have been the personification of a human machine rest. I also wonder as to where he got ammunition capable of such accuracy.
As to the days of Seagirt being "long past", that isn't the only thing that could be so described.
Ideal Tool
Moderator
Hello, alan..Sorry..working too long..& going by memory. This match was shot at 200yds. on the ASSRA #3 or #4 target...only difference is color..one is red, other is black...shooters choice which is used. Both have center bull of 1 1/2" dia. The gentleman I refered to kept all 10 shots withen that 1 1/2" center. Nothing special as far as rest..old Hart cast-iron front with sandbag, bunny-ear leather bag at rear. Benches were wood. I believe he was using Eley black box match.
I measured an old A-23 target. This was the official 200 yard smallbore target. The 10 ring is 4.5 inches diameter and 9 inches diameter for the 9 ring. We shot this in club prone matches mainly for fun. It was not uncommon for 20 shot scores to be around 193 with a few X's . IDEAL'S post about 1 1/2" groups from benchrest is outstanding. Keeping most of your shot inside a 4inch circle from prone is an eye opener too.
4EVERM-14:
It gets molre iinteresting. For myself, while I have now and then done a little target shooting with .22 RF. I never got into serious competition with that cartridge. Shooting sub 2" groups, even bench rest with this cartridge at 200 yards amazes me, perhaps I'm to easily amused.
I did however shoot NMC Competition, 200, 300 500 and or 600 yards and 1000 yard competition for quite a few years, having starterd with a WW2 Winchester Garand. On the old 5V 1000 yard target, I consistently shot in the mid 90's out of as possible 100.
With the .308 cartridge in a Model 70 at 600 yards prone, iiron sights, I could hold inside the 10 ring elevation wise, usually dropping a few points to windage. The 600 yard target 10 ring was 12" in diameter, two minutes of angle.
As for 1000 yard shooting with a .308, I might just as well have been throwing rocks. With the 30-06, a different story. Please do not inquire about how I did at 200 yards, off-hand, for it is a rather sad story, with either .308 or 30-06. Dry firing practice was what I needed, but that got to be like work, the unpaid kind, which never held my interest, at least not for very long, ergo, my poor off-hand scores, about 170 out of a possible 200. It was fun while it lasted.
It gets molre iinteresting. For myself, while I have now and then done a little target shooting with .22 RF. I never got into serious competition with that cartridge. Shooting sub 2" groups, even bench rest with this cartridge at 200 yards amazes me, perhaps I'm to easily amused.
I did however shoot NMC Competition, 200, 300 500 and or 600 yards and 1000 yard competition for quite a few years, having starterd with a WW2 Winchester Garand. On the old 5V 1000 yard target, I consistently shot in the mid 90's out of as possible 100.
With the .308 cartridge in a Model 70 at 600 yards prone, iiron sights, I could hold inside the 10 ring elevation wise, usually dropping a few points to windage. The 600 yard target 10 ring was 12" in diameter, two minutes of angle.
As for 1000 yard shooting with a .308, I might just as well have been throwing rocks. With the 30-06, a different story. Please do not inquire about how I did at 200 yards, off-hand, for it is a rather sad story, with either .308 or 30-06. Dry firing practice was what I needed, but that got to be like work, the unpaid kind, which never held my interest, at least not for very long, ergo, my poor off-hand scores, about 170 out of a possible 200. It was fun while it lasted.
4EVERM-14 wrote:
The OP's question about long range shooting has been answered in a rather unique way.The lowly .22 is one of the most versatile cartridges that can keep a plinker happy as well as be an economic teacher of position shooting and long range shooting.
__________________
David
NRA Benefactor Member
Distinguished Rifleman #731
Presidents 100
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I don't know that you are in any significant way incorrect in what you said, but I cannot really dispute your comments either, as like I said, I nevwer got into 22 rf in anything like a serious way.
I note your status, Distinguished and Presidents 100. Impressive. For myself, I held, at one time, NRA High Power Expert Classification, and NRA Life Membership since 1973. Lot of water undwer the bridge since then.
Keep your poqwder cool and dry.
Alan
The OP's question about long range shooting has been answered in a rather unique way.The lowly .22 is one of the most versatile cartridges that can keep a plinker happy as well as be an economic teacher of position shooting and long range shooting.
__________________
David
NRA Benefactor Member
Distinguished Rifleman #731
Presidents 100
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know that you are in any significant way incorrect in what you said, but I cannot really dispute your comments either, as like I said, I nevwer got into 22 rf in anything like a serious way.
I note your status, Distinguished and Presidents 100. Impressive. For myself, I held, at one time, NRA High Power Expert Classification, and NRA Life Membership since 1973. Lot of water undwer the bridge since then.
Keep your poqwder cool and dry.
Alan
alan, thanks. A lot of water has passed under my bridge as well.
A good friend and shooting partner is a highpower competitor. He always used to say that the .22 was for "kids and old men". When we both began shooting a winter position league he quickly agreed that it was not at all easy. It was as challenging and satisfying as highpower. It is a great substitute when circumstances don't allow centerfire practice.
A good friend and shooting partner is a highpower competitor. He always used to say that the .22 was for "kids and old men". When we both began shooting a winter position league he quickly agreed that it was not at all easy. It was as challenging and satisfying as highpower. It is a great substitute when circumstances don't allow centerfire practice.
Ideal Tool
Moderator
Hello, everyone. Concerning that 200 yd. shooting exhibition..The match was just about finished for the day..most shooters had left..only myself, and two or three old timers were left. If I remember correctly, I was the only one mesmerized by this shooting..the others kind of took it all in stride. Now the fellow doing the shooting was on his own back-yard range..way out in country with cornfields surrounding house...probably unlimited amount of practice time..since he had just retired. Sadly, diabetes took those wonderful eyes, and later his life.
I have always been facinated by the old-time 1000yd. matches of Creedmoor & Wimbledon. I have a book with detailed information on these matches & dimensioned drawings of the huge chilled cast-iron targets they used. The bull was steel..and gave a distinctive ring..as opposed to the dull clunk of the iron..What I would give to be able to witness those far off rings.
Since my home range is limited to 100yds..I scaled those 1000yd targets to 1/10 size. the 10 ring is 3.6" in dia. Looking thru irons, it looks like a pencil dot out there. 200yds. would give a more realistic feel... what wth wind and mirage, and they could easily be scaled for such a distance.
I printed them on heavy paper..both the early square, and later round bulls.
Last summer, I used a customized BSA 12/15 match rifle, stocked in English walnut & re-barreled with a 30" heavy 1" at muzzle barrel made by H.M. Pope in 1930. brl. has scope blks, but I used the BSA adj. appature rear, & Watson interchangeable appature front.
Shooting prone, with & without sling..I was able to keep most in the black..but this rifle is heavy! even with sling, I found I had to lay rifle down after each shot..got to get in better shape!
I was even thinking of contorting my old carcase into one of them fancy creedmoor back positions!..Have to watch the toes!
I have always been facinated by the old-time 1000yd. matches of Creedmoor & Wimbledon. I have a book with detailed information on these matches & dimensioned drawings of the huge chilled cast-iron targets they used. The bull was steel..and gave a distinctive ring..as opposed to the dull clunk of the iron..What I would give to be able to witness those far off rings.
Since my home range is limited to 100yds..I scaled those 1000yd targets to 1/10 size. the 10 ring is 3.6" in dia. Looking thru irons, it looks like a pencil dot out there. 200yds. would give a more realistic feel... what wth wind and mirage, and they could easily be scaled for such a distance.
I printed them on heavy paper..both the early square, and later round bulls.
Last summer, I used a customized BSA 12/15 match rifle, stocked in English walnut & re-barreled with a 30" heavy 1" at muzzle barrel made by H.M. Pope in 1930. brl. has scope blks, but I used the BSA adj. appature rear, & Watson interchangeable appature front.
Shooting prone, with & without sling..I was able to keep most in the black..but this rifle is heavy! even with sling, I found I had to lay rifle down after each shot..got to get in better shape!
I was even thinking of contorting my old carcase into one of them fancy creedmoor back positions!..Have to watch the toes!
4EVERM-14, or Dave:
I guess we all come to that point, though being quite far removed from being a “kid”, “old man” would be more accurate, perhaps I should take up the 22. I have two of them one an H & R 5200, a heavy, single shot target rifle, the other being a Mossberg tubular feed “target rifle”, which I have shot now and then, it's a lightweight.
Haven't shot rifle competition in quite a while, can't really remember when last I did, and I'm these days down to two bolt action rifles, those defined as 30 caliber, either 30-06, my first choice or a close second, the 7.62mm NATO or .308 Win if you prefer, both having been converted to left hand operation. I never could see sights with my right eye, and reached over the stock with Model 70's for a long time. Such action used to draw the occasiponal odd look. If all else fails, there is always IPSC competition, though I shoot a pistol to slowly to do much good. Lots of fun though, and one needn't carry half a ton of “stuff around either.
Take care.
I guess we all come to that point, though being quite far removed from being a “kid”, “old man” would be more accurate, perhaps I should take up the 22. I have two of them one an H & R 5200, a heavy, single shot target rifle, the other being a Mossberg tubular feed “target rifle”, which I have shot now and then, it's a lightweight.
Haven't shot rifle competition in quite a while, can't really remember when last I did, and I'm these days down to two bolt action rifles, those defined as 30 caliber, either 30-06, my first choice or a close second, the 7.62mm NATO or .308 Win if you prefer, both having been converted to left hand operation. I never could see sights with my right eye, and reached over the stock with Model 70's for a long time. Such action used to draw the occasiponal odd look. If all else fails, there is always IPSC competition, though I shoot a pistol to slowly to do much good. Lots of fun though, and one needn't carry half a ton of “stuff around either.
Take care.