Long range hunting... part 2 minimum cartridge

Crowbeaner:

This older Remington is a .243; Dad bought it way back in 1968 for my brother and me to share. I replaced the original stocks after a nasty rockslide fall while hunting in Sweetwater County, Wyoming. Its a keeper!

An old timer we know ranches near Thermopolis. He has a huge collection of Remington slide action rifles. But his favorite for hunting is 30-06. Its difficult to estimate how many tons of meat this rifle has produced with well placed shots.

Jack
 
Magnum Wheel Man
if one could build a poor mans 1000 yard rifle for target shooting, & lets say the "S" doesn't really hit the fan, but the economy fails miserably, & I needed to shoot any edible game that crossed my property, just to feed my family, or we starve during the winter ( at this point I'm not really worried about ethics or legal... maybe the biggest shame here, would be wasting a bullet & powder & primer on a missed food source )... if I were set up on my shooting bench, & I could use my laser range finder to determine the distance... & ( hey maybe today I'm eating woodchuck ), but this already over pressured & skittish deer is nervously grazing at 1000 yards ( maybe by the bait I placed there... hey I'm on survival mode here )... what do you think is the minimum cartridge / bullet combo, & resulting energy needed to kill or motally wound that midsized game animal ???
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I really think that the cartridge is less the determining factor here than the quality of the equipment and the loose nut with his booger hook on the bang switch.

If I was wanting to get into the 1k yard game, I'd be getting a Savage 110FP in 300 WinMag, a Choate Sniper Stock, a 20 MOA scope mount, and as much glass as I can afford. Then I'd mark off my ranges in 50 yard increments and start loading up some rounds until I found the one that was in the sweet spot for my rifle. I'd get some good ballistics software and a home weather station. And I'd start practicing.

Byrdman
 
Just about any center fire cartridge will hit targets out to 1000yds. Many men have died as proof of that point.

As far as pot hunting at that distance in some sort of social upheaval, I don't think it meets the efficiency test. Snares and traps would be a more efficient way of fedding you family. Baiting would also be a better idea.
But in the long run keeping chickens and goats will supply you with more meat than hoping for Bambi wanders by at extreme range.
 
I wounder how long this thread will live? Seeing as i just discovered that i can only hunt with handgun rounds(tho they can be launched out of lever guns) im limited to 200 yards max range. But this question does ask and actually gives so me answeres to the question i asked in my post.

So far what ive gathered is that the non magnums will do it, but its probably best to have a 30 magnum, or a 7mm magnum of some kind. I am probably gonna build up a 30 cal ackley and that will provide me with what i want.

As far as ethics, i think that should be up to the individual hunter. IF we start asking for people to regulate that, then the govt will ruin hunting for everyone.
 
mordis, think of ethics not as regulations, but more as "What we've discovered is..."

For instance, a quick and clean kill that minimizes any suffering allows all of us to have more self-respect as to our skill. Humanity in general scorns those who would increase or lengthen suffering. Why would a hunter put himself in a position to be scorned? So, quick and clean. Self-respect. Personal responsibility. Knowledge of the limits of one's talents and abilities. All that philosophical stuff.

From that, the ethics thing then has to do with one's abilities. Nothing wrong with killing a deer at a thousand yards, if you know you can do it quickly and cleanly. If you know.

Nothing wrong with using minor cartridges on Bambi, if you know.

That Dirty Harry line always applies: "A man's gotta know his limitations."

So if somebody cripples a deer from a poor hit at 600 yards and hollers to me for help in tracking and it's getting dark and it's around 35 degrees with sleet or drizzle: He ain't gonna see no smiling face. And it's probably the last time he'll ever see my deer camp.

:), Art
 
I really think that the cartridge is less the determining factor here than the quality of the equipment and the loose nut with his booger hook on the bang switch.
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Very good point. The rifle is going to have to be exceptionally accurate. The scope will need to offer high magnification, and exceptional clarity and resolution.

And the shooter will really need to invest the time in training with his equipment, especially under field conditions.

Long range varmint hunting is one way to train for such big game hunting. If you can hit a marmot or coyote at long range, you are definitely going to be able to hit a deer at that range. So that would be the main tip that I would add here to this discussion. Field practice will pay off much more than range time.

The other option, of course, is to just stalk to within closer range of your prey. I have some really good equipment, but I generally prefer to stay under 300 yards when hunting. Bullet drop, wind deflection, everything just becomes a much bigger issue as you get way out there.

And be sure to have a good laser rangefinder to confirm the exact distance. It is not hard to get fooled when estimating range to a distance target.

.
 
The other option, of course, is to just stalk to within closer range of your prey. I have some really good equipment, but I generally prefer to stay under 300 yards when hunting. Bullet drop, wind deflection, everything just becomes a much bigger issue as you get way out there.
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#1


In my lifetime I have made fewer that 10 long range shots on deer, elk and hogs. To me a long range shot is any shot over 300 yards. Last winter I made a shot on a whitetail deer at a lasered 412 yards; bang flop. Conditions were superb for that shot or I would not have taken it. This is the third longest shot I have ever made in 55 years of hunting, it may also be my last long range shot.

Talked with a guy who was on a film crew for a long range hunting show. He said that quite often they wounded an animal that was never recoverd.
 
Long range varmint hunting is one way to train for such big game hunting. If you can hit a marmot or coyote at long range, you are definitely going to be able to hit a deer at that range.
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I will agree with that statement, except that the original question was about shooting deer at 1,000 yds. Most varmnt hunters shoot at 300-400 yds max, some as far as 500 yds. With a varmint round, the chance of inflicting a wound that will cause the animal to suffer a prolonged death is infinitesmally small. You are delivering say 1,000 ft-lbs of energy to an animal that in most cases weighs less than 5 lbs, often less than 1 lb. Typically, even a marginal hit results in a high-speed disassembly of the animal you shot. Translate that to a deer that weighs 200 lbs, where a marginal hit means prolonged suffering and a possible lost animal, and you can see that comparing varmint shooting to shooting game animals is not a good comparison.
 
I would guess that in theory, varmenting would be good field practice, ranging distance, dopping wind, etc. however... the last time I went "dogging" though... I had some long shots... longest made with an accurized AR flat top wearing a comp & 20X scope... longest shot made, was in the neighborhood of 500 yards... but admittedly... it was one I shot 3-4 times & "drifted on in", as the distance wasn't known... I would not shoot a deer like that...

but I do agree that bullet performance / expansion worry me at the reduced velocities, & the rainbow tradjectory they'd be coming in from
 
I'll use the example again of a 7mm Weatherby Mag.<lots of other good calibers ie. 308...but I like the 7mm Weatherby as an example because it's such a powerhouse...> The 7mm Weatherby will deliver a 160gr. partition bullet with 1700+lbs. of energy retained at a range of 500yds....with a bullet drop of only about 24inches. Despite that incredible performance, it's still going to be a difficult long range shot at 500yds.


Scope, Recoil, Windage, angle,Bullet Drop...travel time... Practice Practice Practice - and if you can hit the pie plate at 500yds every time in a variety of conditions...then I'd say...you might be ready to try it on big game. I think however you can be much more effective by just getting a lot closer...
Most folks I know seem quite impressed by long range shots of about 300yds. There's a fine line between a great long range shot - and a foolish one. The foolish long range shot will make you feel lower than a snake's belly. Few things sadder than a wounded innocent animal running away in helpless painful distress.
 
you'd be suprised if I told you my longest shot on deer( probably a much shorter distance than most hunters on this site )... most of the woods I've hunted in the past, were in northern MN, & were very thick, if I choose to hunt southern MN again this year ( which is pretty likely ), it's all shotgun zone, & wide open spaces around our farm, but I'll be hunting on some relitives property in the thickly wooded bluffs along the Mississippi river... even though the zone is shotgun, handguns are allowed, & I normally use a 45-70 Contender, which I can shoot 3 leaf clovers on paper out to 75 yards, with any normal "field rest" & which is about my max comfortable distance to shoot with the hand cannon... over the years, of hunting "up north", my shot ranges have been antwhere from 4ft to almost 200 yards ( I never did take the 200 yard shot, as I was hunting that year with a .243... which I felt was marginal for large white tail, & I could not get a solid field rest from the deer stand I was in... the shot was at a large doe standing broadside on the fire break, & I just could not get into a position with her watching me, to be comfortable taking that shot )

so... back to the topic of this thread... for me to actually take even a 500 yard shot, would be highly unlikely, let alone the 1000 yard shot I started the thread around... mostly the purpose being, I wanted to insure I had enough energy to kill a game sized animal at 1000 yards, if I were going to set up a rifle to shoot that far...
 
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