Long Range Handguning With The Magnums- .357, .41, and .44?

Handgun shots

My DPS issue sidearm was a md 27,Patridge sights, small grips, standard trigger and hammer, 5" barrel, Magna Blue.
Ammo was W-W Super-X -1940 circa
Hard Cast copper plated SWC 158 grn---1550fps from 8+" barrel
Armor Piercer- 158 grn-WW loaded to same velocity.
Nickle plated cases with special heavy roll crimp and sealed primers.
We qualified with full power ammo from, 7 to 50 yds.
Rapid fire, right hand and left, sitting, prone, baricade., kneeling no less than a 2" group with 50 rounds total at the above mentioned distances and positions.
The N frames with 5 or 6" barrels will print a 2" group at 100 yds when fired with a Ransom Pistol Machine or after many hours of PPC practice in the braced sitting position.
Our targets utilized a 2" X ring and a 4" 10 ring.
I did not carry the md 27.
I used the 6" md 28 which I had Tefloned in matte black(green is also available)
One of my partners killed a armed escaped convict with one shot to the chest at nearly 70 yds with his issue and the lead SWC bullet.
I have made sucessful long distance shots as well..........
All of us Troopers had a 41 or 44 mag revolver which we used for manhunts in the woods, river banks or other remote areas.
The flattop Ruger was the favorite with us.
The 6" 41 magnum Ruger SA was more accurate than the 44.
The Sierra 210 grn HP with IMR 4227 was our choice in 41
and the original Elmer 44mag load was the choice in that caliber.
Hitting a 5 gallon can at 3 or 400 hundred yards only takes practice since the Smilth 41,44 mag or Ruger is very much so capable of doing that on a consistent basis....Taurus too.
A 357 or 44 when shot in a rifle---------proves to be super accurate in the hands of any of us shooters---------
the only reason some can't 'APPROACH' that level of accuracy with a handgun is because enough practice has not taken place!
Distance is a relative thing---------
It has been my experience, as I train handgunners even now, to give honest witness to their accuracy level even -yes- at rifle distances with them shooting their magnum handgun(Ruger, Colt, Smith, Dan Wesson, Taurus too!) AFTER they have gained a level of confidence. That level comes after much practice.
I shoot everyday.
Raincoat when it rains, warm clothes when it is cold and I sweat when it is hot.
It takes determination and practice----thats all.

Set up a man sized target at 200 yds.
Take a good sandbag rest and shoot single action.
Fire 50 rounds and go forward to check the target.
If you are any kind of handgunner at all you will have hit near the center many times.
Don Mallard
 
Hello Sam and Dan

Sam--I am standing back to back with Ala Dan--he is in Alabama and me in Mississippi.
One of our DPS Tactical Firearms trainers and me go W A Y !
back-------
He is dealing with a handgun (proficiency) problem with the new Troopers.
They currently are issued a 40 semi-auto.
The Gold Dot ammo has killed four felons -for the record-in our area.
He thinks it to be a good manstopper---I agree.
He knows the rank and file-LEO- is not a very good shot--I agree.
He is concerned as to how to approach the problem.
Our current Commissioner and me worked together 30+ years ago before the days of 'Jaws-of-Life' and bullet proof vest.
We worked a scheduled 63 hours a week and four days off a month and on call during your off time and at night. In short it was not a job but rather a way of life. We had no ticket quotas - in fact we only had a total of nine(9) Radar instruments in the whole state when I joined!
Our job was one of all business and with no time to mess with the general population who did no more than speed in their car.
Excuse the rant---------
I say handgun profeciency SHOULD begin at the beginning---and that is with a 22 revolver OR a good 22 semi auto.
(I can afford any gun I want--and I only own five(5) handguns)
New handgun shooters need to be 'correctly' informed of some basic truths/facts about the firearm----
(A.) A firearm is hard to master--any of em'
(B.) A handgun is the hardest of all firearms to master.
The key is the word-MASTER- here.
You have got to master it----no way around it.
That takes many cases of any caliber ammo.
That takes determination of maniac proportions----
You have got to want to be a handgun master shot with your handgun(s) more than anything.
**********************************************************
The Commissioner and my firearms trainer have approached me for some insight concerning the lack of handgun expertise witch is rampant in current LEO circles.
My reply: "You boys have got to go back to the basics of handgun training"!
The shooters have got to start at the 7 yd line and slow draw and fire a single shot at the 2" center and do this until they can hit it with every shot BEFORE they continue to any other exercise.* That is a unaimed shot--just like in real life shootouts*
They will-if they survive a real gun fight- need to be fast and accurate. My friend-Bless his good Heart- Border Patrolman Bill Jordan knows this to be true.
I wish you guys could have sat around the range grounds during a National Match and talked with him.
I am not of his fame but some of him rubbed off on me.
**********************************************************
I always have each new trainee(civilian ones now) bring all their handguns for the first 'lesson'.
Whew!! at the numbers of them that they own!
I lock up all of them except the 22's.
When they have mastered the 22 then they are ready to proceed. If they don't like my method then we shake hands and part ways---they always return--I am fair.
You see, the thing that is missing with today's breed of handgunner is patience. They want things to happen quickly.
That does not occur with a handgun.
I venture to say that most handgunners,today, are lost if they do anything but see how fast they can empty the multi shot magazine of their fine handgun. And that is usually no further than the 15 yd line.
Our state stops the accuracy shots at the 25 yd line!
**********************************************************
I adhere to the philosophy--"One Man-One Gun"--
The handguns abilty to 'be' accurate is certainly there for a good quality revolver.
I am NRA Police rated as Expert with a semi-auto but I only own one semi-auto pistol.
I have stated that I do not charge to train a handgunner.
They could not afford to pay me per hour. I do it so the art of the handgun will be passed on to others.
New handgunners don't know any different from what I teach.
My female graduates can/and do 'Smoke" the new Female Troopers! That is what brought the heat down on me from the Ivory Tower bosses!
It is like I say--practice--practice and keep practicing until your confidence level is so high that there is no doubt as to where your shot(s) will go and that--in closing from me---is 'EXACTLY' where you intend them to hit!
Don Mallard
Merry Christmas and God Bless our Nation
 
Thanks Don. I agree with your curriculum. Reason for the question was your ref to the .41mag. Know few state folks used em. I worked with Nevada when they got theirs. Chance we had done some stuff together. Oh well.

Sam
 
WEBShoot2

I agree with the use of the heaver bullet for downrange penetration.
'IF' I had to choose one defining characteristic of 'any' bullet design I will choose the one which offers the best penetration abilities......
I understand all the hoop-la about the 'hollow-point' designs.
Those designs are actually relatively new to the handgun world.
The first factory 'hot' ones were from Super-Vel---remember those?
I owe my life to the hyper-performance of one of their 357 110 grn hp's.
I was shot in the back while sitting in my Interceptor.
The shooter shot thru the back glass and into the car.
The bullet shed its jacket upon impacting the glass and hit my shoulder blade and just glanced off.
Mostly a bulllet hole and some slivers of lead was the extent of the injuries-to me.........
If that had been a good hard cast SWC bullet then my presence would be lying still-now.
Matter of fact--the choice of using a hollow point handgun bullet is not a Tactical option----in the real world of deadly insertions.
Back in the late 30's-40-50's--- the early offensive insertion Officers used wadcutters.
They just made head shots and the non-existence of recoil of the wadccutter ammo when fired in the N frames made for a effective delivery system.
Anyway, we have lots of 'things' to kick around on this site.
Don Mallard
 
New Handguner's Listen Up!!!

Another excellent post by my friend and neighbor Don Mallard.
Don, you are certainly a great credit, to the great sport of handguning; and to TFL. Thanks for taking the time to share
your teaching's with us, as it was a very informative post.
I'm with you Mr. Mallard, over the last thirty some odd year's
I've owned loads upon load's of firearms; mostly handguns,
but being a bit older and wiser (I hope) I have narrowed
my inventory down to (5) basic weapon's. Three are S&W
revolver's, and two are Sig-Sauer autoloader's. They are:


1. An early production S&W 2" bbl model 60 .38 Special
2. Smith & Wesson 629-5 5" bbl Classic .44 Magnum
3. Smith & Wesson 686-5 6" bbl D.C.M. .357 Magnum
4. Sig-Sauer P220A .45 Auto
5. Sig-Sauer P228 9m/m Auto


These are "necessity" weapons; in which one or more are
in use everyday. Once, I feel that I have "mastered" any
of these; it will be time to move on. What I'm trying to say
is , mastering the art of handguning is a never ending learning
process. To sum up, one must practice, practice, practice.

I'm sure that there are many excellent shot's that post here
at TFL; but the best shot can always do better!!!
___________________________________________________

Season's Greeting's To All,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
And Thanks-----

-------Ala Dan
The only way to keep the handgun art alive--on my part---is to give my experience away.
You have chosen the only semi-auto which passed our DPS semi-auto test and the best overallbrand was the wonderful Sig.
politics entered into my states DPS handgun purchase(s)
just like a majorityof LE agences.I started with a open mind-concerning handguns and their professional use.
They are instruments to me.
I only love the ones which have proven to be reliable under heavy and many times abusive use.
And yes I strongly suggest handgunners -who are seriously seeking the goal of mastering the handgun--to simply narrow the numbers of the different handgun which they either have or want.
A member here, Victor Louis, has made the decison to start at the begining with the right setup-------
(A). A handgun which is rugged and reliable
(B) A smooth action
(C) A set of grips which properly fits the hand of the shooter
(D) Two loads
(a) one which a accurate -low velocity- target load
(b) one which is a full power load which is accurate in 'that' gun.
(E) A burning desire to master that particular gun.....
'IF' a man or woman can shoot enough to master a .22- 38/357 -and 44 gun............then they will have to shoot thousands of rounds thru each and at various practicalstages.
Now if you don't have a great quality revolver and semi-auto chambered in .22 then one of each type should be purchased.
If a person wants a 41 mag or 10mm for that manner then I say go for it and/or a fine 45 acp machine...................
........handguns are machines..............

The 22 is a pure fun gun.
The 38 wadcutter is the one which will allow the shooter to really gain confidence in his or her ability.
When that has been accomplished then load up the real 357 ammo and then shoot them until you can score as high with them as you can with target ammo.
The next step up the latter is really not necessary since the 357 is a good-evil man-killer. Texas Highway Patrol likes the Sig 357.
I have invested --from the start way back there- with just a few guns and calibers and it is simply not in the cards for me to go-now- to other fine guns and calibers.
I don't cuss any of em'
I am a handgun utilitarian so I will just keep on dumping empty brass of my choice in the bucket--------------

Don Mallard
 
Last edited:
Don,

What was the Sig model number and caliber that passed your
states DPS test? Thanks and

Best Wishes Of The Season,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
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