Long range ar

K

kxkid

New member
I am looking to build a long range ar. Talking out to 1000 or more and still be supersonic. I have looked at the 6.5 Grendel but there's not much load data. The bbl would be 22-24".

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The best choice in the AR15 platform would be the 6.5 Grendel. Capable of staying super sonic to well past 1000 yards with the right loads.

In the past few months Bill Alexander has released the trade mark rights and SAAMI has accepted the Grendel. More and more barrel makers are offering the Grendel now. Wolf well be releasing low cost steel case ammo down the road.

Some good reading at the links below.

http://www.6mmbr.com/65grendel.html

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/index.php?

I've had my Grendel for a year now and I'm very happy with the performance. It well out preform my Noveske 21" AR10 starting around 900 yds, the point the .308 goes sub sonic.
 
Plenty of load data and discussion on 65Grendel.com, in addition to the published date from A.A.

It's hands-down the best choice for what you want to do.
Haven't had a chance to stretch the legs yet on my son's newly built one (we went with intermediate length (18") barrel, but even that length still delivers acceptable long range velocities.

No different to build, just the bolt/barrel assembly (ours has the M4 ramps), and mags from A.A.

First time I reloaded the 123 Amax's I saw why they're capable of long range. The high BC bullets are extremely long, probably half of it (I didn't measure) gets seated down into the case! Recoil slightly heavier than the 7.62 x 39...
 
Why an AR-10 for punching paper at long range??

More expensive to build.

The Grendel has less kinetic energy at 1000 yards (obviously), but more velocity, less drop, and less drift...

So, where's your advantage???
 
Here we go again?

Why an AR-10 for punching paper at long range??

More expensive to build.
The Grendel has less kinetic energy at 1000 yards (obviously), but more velocity, less drop, and less drift...

So, where's your advantage???
Click to expand...

Because it works better!
 
First a 22 or 24" barrel will do fine.

I'd just go with .223. It expands the areas you can compete in, it's cheaper, is capable enough to reach 1000yds.
 
tried an OBR 308 to 1000 the other day mounted with new 20x leupold M5 locking...it was a first time for me 2/5 hits, the person next to me was 3/5.
 
I'd just go with .223. It expands the areas you can compete in, it's cheaper, is capable enough to reach 1000yds.
Click to expand...

I'll have to take exception to that.
Capable, and practical, are two different animals. Any .223 bullet you can launch from an AR-15 is going to be subsonic at 1000 meters.

Some of the heavy VLD's may get there, but you're not going to send them at mag length from an AR platform.

Shooting even VLD's at 1000 yards is a challenge for the best of shooters. If the wind is blowing, forget about it. Stay home.

Given that the OP's stated used for the rifle is long range, suggesting that .223 be the caliber of choice is just, well...wrong in my opinion.

And any suggestion that it would be "better"- in any capacity for that purposed over the 6.5 Grendel cannot be supported by any factual ballistics.

I love the .223 for short to medium range and we own several.

But it's limitations need to be acknowledged.
 
Tobnpr,

\
hope you dont go to Perry or the CMP Eastern and Western Games' Service Rifle Shooters that. It would break their hearts because the are doing quite well with 223s at 1000.

but you're not going to send them at mag length from an AR platform.
Click to expand...

77 SMKs are loaded to Mag lenght. Mine leave the barrel right around 2650 FPS and are super sonic at 1000. 1266 to be exact. Sure the heavier bullets, loaded long, work better. I use 80 SMKs at 1000. I'm talking 20 inch barrel, nothing exotic.

223s are actually faster at 1000 then my 175 SMK 308s. The wind deflection for my 175s is .91 MOA per MPH of wind. My 77s deflection at 1000 is .85 MOA.

If you can judge wind within 1 MPH, (which there aren't many who can), you're talking a .06 MOA difference.

There is a reason why Service Rifle shooters went to the AR from the M14/M1A. Its because they preform better.

I've shot several 1000 yard matches with the AR, IT WORKS. One only has to look at todays AR scores and yesterdays M14 scores to see that.
 
According to the online Hornady ballistic calculator,
77 SMK has a BC of .362
With a MV of 2650 (your #), velocities as follows:
100 yds. 2409
300 1965
600 1411
800 1151
1000 1000

1000 fps is subsonic by 116 fps...

But I'm not really into discussing specifics. I'm sure you have a ballistic calculator that says something different.

I stand by my opinion that the .223 is not an optimal caliber for 1000 yards, from any platform. I never said it couldn't be done, and it certainly is a challenge for skilled triggerman.

I'll take a .260, 7mm.-08, or just about any of the other 6.5's , .308, you name it over a .223 for 1000 yards any day, every day.

To say to the OP that it is a "better" selection- for him- than the 6.5 Grendel for 1000 yard shots is just bad advice IMO.

That's all I've got to say...signing off on this one...
 
I used Bryan Litz' (Berger Bullets) Ballistic Calculator which allows me to use G7 as oppose to G1 (form factor) which I found gives a better picture of what happens down range.

I have also fired several 1000 yard matches using the 223 and found it bears out what Mr Litc calculator says.

I don't know how many 1000 yard matches you've fired, but I do know, checking the results of the National Matches at Camp Perry, bear out the fact that 223s DO WORK AT 1000 YARDS. Not only do they work, they win matches.

All one really has to do is pull targets at a 1000 yard match, hearing the bullets "crack" over head, to know they are super sonic.
 
I should have mentioned that it is not for matches but for some day I want to hunt game at long ranges.

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