Long Distance Shots With CCW

The basic rule for shooting at distance is, "If you can get closer, get closer. If you can get steadier, get steadier." For defense, we should add, "If you can get behind better cover, do so."

Be willing & prepared to brace against any solid object you can, or to drop down and go prone if you've got a decent place to do so safely.
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That's always been my perception. Hard cover is good, hard cover that you can sight through with some concealment is better, all of the above and that you can lean on with arms braced, better than that.

In other words, to me, ideal would be something like a giant planter, full of sand, between you and the bad guy. It'd have foliage for some concealment that you could perhaps sight through, and would let you brace your arms against the edge for a lined-up steady shot and followups.
 
Here's one drill we used to do when I was an LEO. If you can try this or a variant safely, it will show you how hard it is to shoot accurately when under any stress.

We would run in place (knees high) for about 30-45 seconds. Our weapons on the bench at the firing line station. When the instructor would give us a go, we would stop running and have 3-5 seconds to pick up our weapons and fire a double tap at the target. We would also do variants like having to load your empty weapon and then fire, etc...
 
Handguns are useable at much longer ranges than most would believe. The slowest bullets when dead on at 20-25 yards will hit very close to that same point at 50, and a chin hold at 100 yards will get a high COM hit.
 
To be honest I have never put much thought into shooting any farther than 25 yards. I can put rounds on the page at 25 yards easily with my Kahr PM9, but would probably use a 5 inch barrel like a Beratta 92 or a CZ 75 for anything farther. I would also try shooting prone to increase stability. Something I may try next time out.
 
Let be realisatic.

if you are carrying a 3" or 4" sidearm, with adjustable sights, you should have a
POA/POI set for 50 yds. Anything closer will impact above the POA.
I use the Weaver stance, for sighting in.
For longer distance, you'll need to use support.
Carrying a snub-nose or smaller caliber best stick with 15yd.


You should try metallic silhouette shooting, its very interesting and mind opening for the ability of a sidearm.

Also try a bowling pin shoot, here is the ideal combination of timed fire, with GOOD sight alignment and trigger squeeze. The pin reaction tells you when you have a good center of mass hit, by going straight away from you or spins around indicating an off-side hit.
 
I enjoy shooting at 100yrds from time to time. I cant hit much at that range but it is fun to do! Helps me get a feeling for what i can and cannot do with a handgun.
 
My handgun of choice is a revolver, either a S&W .357 magnum, or .44 magnum. I practice at 10 & 25 yard targets, stationary; and, out to 30 yards in a once a month tactical type scenario my gun club puts on.

From my view this is really the most distance I think I'd encounter, as at that distance I'd be prone to 'Exit stage right', as fast as I could, or hunkered down in a solid defensive posture.

What I have found, is the longer range (25 yard) shooting has really benefited my 10 yard shooting also. So I continue that practice.
 
CCW at Range

A few other Instructors I have talked to have stated that long distance practice with a pistol might not be a bad thing as you never know when things might turn to PooPoo and all you have is your pistol.
On another note I have a friend that does practice at long range with his snub nose and can regularly breaks balloons at 200 yds with very few if ever misses. But what do I know.
 
I shoot black powder competition with a bunch of old coots. One of our matches is with B/P pistols where we shoot off hand at 25 and 50 yards. You wold be surprised how you can still hit black at fifty yards. It never hurts to know what you can do with your pistol.
 
Rampage: I think there are some steel silhouette clubs or at least ranges around B'ham...try your hand with them...but, be warned...it's VERY addictive.:D
 
Here's one drill we used to do when I was an LEO. If you can try this or a variant safely, it will show you how hard it is to shoot accurately when under any stress.

We would run in place (knees high) for about 30-45 seconds. Our weapons on the bench at the firing line station. When the instructor would give us a go, we would stop running and have 3-5 seconds to pick up our weapons and fire a double tap at the target. We would also do variants like having to load your empty weapon and then fire, etc...
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I've actually done this one. I find it works very well, and it take a lot of practice to be able to quickly get on target and fire a shot, let alone hit your target.
 
I just do it the normal way, Glock 17, thumbs forward grip.

A man size steel target at 100 yards gets hit 70% of the time with very little practice.
 
What makes you think that engaging a target at long distance is both a good idea and legally defensible?
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What would make you suggest that engaging a target at 100 yards isn't legally defensible? Charles Whitman took out people at 600 yards. Are you suggesting it would not be legally defensible to be within that 600 yards and return fire?

I don't know of a single law that stipuates or limits distance in the application of lethal force in a self defense situation. The same rules apply at contact as they do at 100 or 1000 yards.

Handguns are useable at much longer ranges than most would believe. The slowest bullets when dead on at 20-25 yards will hit very close to that same point at 50, and a chin hold at 100 yards will get a high COM hit.
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Do not follow this advice without actually verifying the data for your particular gun, caliber, and ammo. It is presented here as a universal or near universal when it most definitely is not. All sorts of issues influence this including site radius above the bore, sight radius (influences ease of exactness), ballistic coeffficent, velocity, drop, levelness of the barret at firing, altitude, etc.
 
I practice regularly at 100yds with my 9mm---I can keep most shots in a 10-12in circle.

While I can't guarantee a hit--I will be able to keep their heads down while I get out of there--or wait for help.
 
Also try a bowling pin shoot, here is the ideal combination of timed fire, with GOOD sight alignment and trigger squeeze. The pin reaction tells you when you have a good center of mass hit, by going straight away from you or spins around indicating an off-side hit.
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The last time I shot at at bowling pin, or several, really, was with a full-auto 30-06 BAR. They danced all over the place, and one came apart. What does that tell you? :D
 
For whatever your reasons are, you might want to go through some warm-up shooting with a .22 handgun first, then go up to the center-fire pistol or revolver. Shooting a .22 handgun at 100 yards is "do-able", and with half-way decent accuracy.

By warming-up with a .22, you should be able to figure out what stance/grip is the best for you to use. It will also build up your self confidence, which is a necessity for accuracy. Oh, and it's a lot cheaper to shoot the .22 rounds first, then fire several "familiarization" center-fire rounds.
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I really like this idea. First practice and find out what you are capable of. Spend a lot of time on this before moving on to bigger calibers. This is something that you will need to make a big investment in training.

Once you are comfortable just shooting and hitting at long ranges, you'll need to practice with your CCW with your carry ammo. You need to know where your carry gun and your carry ammo will hit. Don't just shoot at one distance. That won't be very helpful. Practice at 50 yards, practice at 100 yards, practice at 150 yards if you can do it. Know where the drop will be at these ranges and in between. If you can, have a friend put a target out in a field at an unknown distance while you look away. Turn around, pick up your gun and see if you can hit it with only three rounds(range estimation practice).

There is a lot of ballistic forgiveness at 15 yards. At 75 yards, there may be a big difference between where your carry ammo prints and where your practice ammo prints.

Ammunition selection may be something you want to pay attention to. You may even want to change your carry ammo, or(trying to think outside the box) you may want to carry an extra mag with dedicated long range ammo.

Massad Ayoob said:
The woodsman has to consider the long range shot. An accurate 1911 .45 can deliver the goods here; the secret is to know how much that slow, heavy bullet drops as the range extends. As one observer put it, “The standard 230-grain .45 slug has the trajectory of a basketball.” Save yourself some computation and do what I do. In the woods as opposed to on the street, I load my .45 auto with Remington’s deliciously accurate 185-grain +P .45 jacketed hollow point. I discovered long ago that if my .45 was sighted in spot on at 25 yards with standard 230-grain ammo, it(I assume he means the 185gr here - DMK) would put the shot where the sights were at 75 to 100 yards. The 1140 foot-second muzzle velocity of that 185-grain Remington .45 +P really flattens the trajectory.
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http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob83.html
 
At the range I haunt, we have bowling pins at 7yds., paper targets at 25yds. and 50yds. Depending on what I am there to practice, my routine varies but mostly I do a few bowling pins before I go to 25yds. Do the majority of my shots there. On occasion I shoot at the 50yds. Target standard size and I have a heck of a time. I can stay on paper but have no pattern whatsoever. I use 1 inch hold over. Wind is never a issue at the range. I can expect to hit the paper but I never know exactly where. I don't alter the isosceles triangle stance that I use at 25yds. So I will watch this thread for some tips also. Shooting at distance is stretching the ccw scenario, but no more than a lot of "what if" threads I see here. There would have to be a clear shot picture with no friendly's, cause I sure couldn't count on me hitting with precision.
 
Shooting at distance is stretching the ccw scenario, but no more than a lot of "what if" threads I see here.
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Not necessarily. In two of the mall shootings that occurred this year the wackos used long guns. The flip side to “bringing a knife to a gun fight” is “bringing a pistol to a rifle fight." A lot of my defensive practice is at 25 to 40 yards. YMMV

Denny
 
I don't alter the isosceles triangle stance that I use at 25yds.
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I don't know. I prefer a Weaver stance for precision shots. The Isosceles is intended to allow you to shift rapidly from one target to the next. You won't likely be shifting all that much or so quickly at long ranges.
 
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