Loaning a SD/HD handgun to a friend.
- Thread starter wyobohunter
- Start date
From what I read, maybe instead of a 12ga.,...
especially if she isn't use to firearms.
Maybe consider an M1 Carbine, stock pouch to hold the mags ( have children, here), low recoil, good for HD and critters up to small deer.
Draw up a agreement for sale with payments, an forfieture if "missed" payments.
especially if she isn't use to firearms.
Maybe consider an M1 Carbine, stock pouch to hold the mags ( have children, here), low recoil, good for HD and critters up to small deer.
Draw up a agreement for sale with payments, an forfieture if "missed" payments.
wyobohunter
New member
But inadequate for brown bears... even the 3 legged variety.
The husband is a contractor not a company guy so he ain't exactly rich but...He can afford a gun for her... he/they just aren't decided on what they should get for her.
Mannlicher
New member
I never, ever, for any reason, loan a gun to someone that is not very familiar with guns in general, and that gun in particular.
Your buddy should have considered the security of his family long ago.
Your buddy should have considered the security of his family long ago.
Oh come on.... In Alaska there is one difference between loaning the gun and gifting the gun. The loan is with an expectation of getting the gun back and the gift is with no expectation of getting the gun back. The legal liabilities of either are the same.
If the gun was provided to the recipient, either as a gift or a loan, for the express purpose of murdering someone or committing a crime with it... if the intent of the transfer could be proven, then the person providing the firearm by any means, sale, gift or loan would be guilty of conspiracy.
If the intent of the loan or gift of the gun is for legal purposes, and the recipient is not prohibited from possessing the firearm, there is no difference in Alaska other than the expectation of getting the gun back. (and to receive the gift, the person must also be an Alaska resident, whereas there is no such requirement for the loan.) The paperwork required is all the same, the background checks are the same, the transaction is the same. The gun is handed to the recipient with a handshake and, "Here, have fun!" whether the gun is given as a gift or loaned. That's all that is required. What in heck could the difference between loan and gift make, if the intent of providing the gun is for lawful purposes (or if the intent of providing the gun could be proven to be for unlawful purposes!?)
If the gun was provided to the recipient, either as a gift or a loan, for the express purpose of murdering someone or committing a crime with it... if the intent of the transfer could be proven, then the person providing the firearm by any means, sale, gift or loan would be guilty of conspiracy.
If the intent of the loan or gift of the gun is for legal purposes, and the recipient is not prohibited from possessing the firearm, there is no difference in Alaska other than the expectation of getting the gun back. (and to receive the gift, the person must also be an Alaska resident, whereas there is no such requirement for the loan.) The paperwork required is all the same, the background checks are the same, the transaction is the same. The gun is handed to the recipient with a handshake and, "Here, have fun!" whether the gun is given as a gift or loaned. That's all that is required. What in heck could the difference between loan and gift make, if the intent of providing the gun is for lawful purposes (or if the intent of providing the gun could be proven to be for unlawful purposes!?)
Onward Allusion
New member
Add dog to that sentence...
no love for the 20?
You don't give any info on the lady's stature, but I don't see why the Remington 870 20ga pump wouldn't be a perfect solution, especiually if your student has no real experience with shooting . Even the SP101 with its chunky weight is uncomfortable at best to shoot and I would call it marginal at best on bears.
If cost is a factor, just take her to any pawn shop, used gun store, or gun show and you can pick up a lightly used 870 for as low as $150. Buy her a case of low brass field loads (2¾" #6's or even 8's) that will get her used to muzzle blast and recoil. Milk Jugs filled with water at about 15-20 yards make a satisfying and spectacular target to keep practice interesting.
Then introduce 3" 00 buck loads as well as slugs, just enough so she feels confident shooting them. There is not a Bear or Man alive that won't be impressed by a load of 00 buck to the face or a heavy slug to the chest.
JMHO
BT
You don't give any info on the lady's stature, but I don't see why the Remington 870 20ga pump wouldn't be a perfect solution, especiually if your student has no real experience with shooting . Even the SP101 with its chunky weight is uncomfortable at best to shoot and I would call it marginal at best on bears.
If cost is a factor, just take her to any pawn shop, used gun store, or gun show and you can pick up a lightly used 870 for as low as $150. Buy her a case of low brass field loads (2¾" #6's or even 8's) that will get her used to muzzle blast and recoil. Milk Jugs filled with water at about 15-20 yards make a satisfying and spectacular target to keep practice interesting.
Then introduce 3" 00 buck loads as well as slugs, just enough so she feels confident shooting them. There is not a Bear or Man alive that won't be impressed by a load of 00 buck to the face or a heavy slug to the chest.
JMHO
BT
My response without reading other posts first (I'll go back and read after responding
)
NO WAY! I don't lend guns out to anyone when I'm not present. Here's why:
1. The same reason I don't lend my car out to anyone - OWNER'S LIABILITY.
2. Guns are like underwear - some things you just don't borrow or lend out.
3. Are you ready to say: "That's ok, that scratch just adds character to my T-Series Belgian Browning anyway"?
4. It's my belief that every law abiding citizen should own at least one gun - GO OUT AND BUY ONE!
) NO WAY! I don't lend guns out to anyone when I'm not present. Here's why:
1. The same reason I don't lend my car out to anyone - OWNER'S LIABILITY.
2. Guns are like underwear - some things you just don't borrow or lend out.
3. Are you ready to say: "That's ok, that scratch just adds character to my T-Series Belgian Browning anyway"?
4. It's my belief that every law abiding citizen should own at least one gun - GO OUT AND BUY ONE!
Deaf Smith
New member
I won't loan a gun to a friend for SD/HD. It has to do with legal issues.
BUT, I will do this:
1) I'll sell them the gun (say my Bersa .380, which is well tested, and my Mossberg 500 18 inch 12 gauge with tac-star side saddle, also well tested) for a very very reasonable price (and I mean very!) plus ammo for them that is also well tested in the pieces.
2) I will then take them to the range and train them. If it takes several times to the range, so be it. I'll bring .22 trainers, IPSC targets, stands, etc...
3) I'll also give them Massad Ayoob's book, "In The Gravest Extreme" plus the laws on deadly force in the state of Texas.
4) And if they want a CHL, I'll guide them through the process to get one.
But I won't just loan a gun to any friend, male or female. Like my granddad said once, "I'll loan you my wife before I'll loan you my gun."
Deaf
BUT, I will do this:
1) I'll sell them the gun (say my Bersa .380, which is well tested, and my Mossberg 500 18 inch 12 gauge with tac-star side saddle, also well tested) for a very very reasonable price (and I mean very!) plus ammo for them that is also well tested in the pieces.
2) I will then take them to the range and train them. If it takes several times to the range, so be it. I'll bring .22 trainers, IPSC targets, stands, etc...
3) I'll also give them Massad Ayoob's book, "In The Gravest Extreme" plus the laws on deadly force in the state of Texas.
4) And if they want a CHL, I'll guide them through the process to get one.
But I won't just loan a gun to any friend, male or female. Like my granddad said once, "I'll loan you my wife before I'll loan you my gun."
Deaf
As for the shotgun, I perfer the Mossberg or Browning style tang safety over the Remington crossbolt safety for inexperienced shooters. It just seems a little more instinctive and is easier to see while still gripping the gun. Also, I don't think 00 buckshot is available in a 20ga. I see mostly 2 3/4" 3 buck and some 3" 2 buck.
wyobohunter
New member
Not for an all around defensive gun in brown bear country. Sh'ed be fine with a 12 gauge. Just practice with 2 3/4" slugs and carry 3" slugs when outside with the kids... throw some buckshot in the tube for unwanted houseguests at night.
I'd call it marginal for black bears and completely inadequate for the kind of bears that live in that neck of the woods. That's why it is a stop gap measure for the crazy neighbor.
I think Nnobby45 confused something somebody else said with something I said
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stephen426
New member
I would have no problems lending a gun to a friend. I am very selective about the people I choose for friends, and would be even more selective about the friend I would lend a gun to. Since we are talking about the safety of your friend's wife, I would be even more inclined to lend her a firearm until they could get one that suits her.
I would bring several "suitable" guns so that she could try them out and decide what worked well for her. I would suggest one handgun and one shotgun since the handgun is much more portable. After she finds something she likes, they can order their own.
While I hate to be legalistic with friends, I would also ask that they sign a form acknowledging that they took possession of the handgun on such and such date.
I would bring several "suitable" guns so that she could try them out and decide what worked well for her. I would suggest one handgun and one shotgun since the handgun is much more portable. After she finds something she likes, they can order their own.
While I hate to be legalistic with friends, I would also ask that they sign a form acknowledging that they took possession of the handgun on such and such date.
Edward429451
Moderator
Fixed it. Us Americans always have extra guns for our friends. No, not my personal 45 but lemmee see what I can come up with...
Maybe I’m just too much of a soft touch on this issue. Maybe I’m just a fool for legally exposing myself. Maybe since there was a time that I was on a tight enough budget that a gun wasn’t a priority … who knows?
I’ll loan a person of good character a firearm without a second thought… most especially to a female in need. It neither matters if I think they should already have one, nor do other second guesses of their situation matter.
If they believe they need it, and I am convinced that they are willing to use it legitimately … I am obligated to not only give it to them, but teach them how and when to use it. It goes back to the reason I decided to become certified as a firearms instructor. Twenty years ago, the home of my aunt was broken into. She was raped and beaten to death with a flashlight. She had refused offers of guns from myself, granddad, uncle, and others … along with offers of teaching her how to use one. Mostly she refused because she was afraid of guns for some reason, but I can’t help but think part of it might have been due to those offering having no "official" credentials as an instructor. She was impressed by certificates and such and there weren’t any certified instructors in this area; at least none that I know of. She also didn’t think "IT" could happen to her, so she didn’t see the need.
Those who see a need are the best judge of their own situation, imo. Anyway, for the past 20 years, I haven't refused a woman who’s requesting protection or the means of protecting herself. After the days spent cleaning cooked blood out of a floor furnace, ripping up soaked carpet, painting walls, and painting the ceiling; I may have lost the ability to refuse such a request. I don’t know if I could handle the possible consequences of refusing aid to a lady in need of protection. Perhaps this could serve as a legal defense for me if there are ever any problems, but ... I really don’t care.
All they have to do is ask; and they will receive a suitable firearm, ammunition, and instruction.
I’ll loan a person of good character a firearm without a second thought… most especially to a female in need. It neither matters if I think they should already have one, nor do other second guesses of their situation matter.
If they believe they need it, and I am convinced that they are willing to use it legitimately … I am obligated to not only give it to them, but teach them how and when to use it. It goes back to the reason I decided to become certified as a firearms instructor. Twenty years ago, the home of my aunt was broken into. She was raped and beaten to death with a flashlight. She had refused offers of guns from myself, granddad, uncle, and others … along with offers of teaching her how to use one. Mostly she refused because she was afraid of guns for some reason, but I can’t help but think part of it might have been due to those offering having no "official" credentials as an instructor. She was impressed by certificates and such and there weren’t any certified instructors in this area; at least none that I know of. She also didn’t think "IT" could happen to her, so she didn’t see the need.
Those who see a need are the best judge of their own situation, imo. Anyway, for the past 20 years, I haven't refused a woman who’s requesting protection or the means of protecting herself. After the days spent cleaning cooked blood out of a floor furnace, ripping up soaked carpet, painting walls, and painting the ceiling; I may have lost the ability to refuse such a request. I don’t know if I could handle the possible consequences of refusing aid to a lady in need of protection. Perhaps this could serve as a legal defense for me if there are ever any problems, but ... I really don’t care.
All they have to do is ask; and they will receive a suitable firearm, ammunition, and instruction.
HighExpert
New member
I agree with the liabilities involved, but, to get back to the original question. Most women due very well with following instructions, usually better than men. Just be sure to explain, in detail, how the sight picture is supposed to work. Explain that she will not be able to hold the gun perfectly still and that she needs to squeeze the trigger not pull it as the gun passed over what she wants to hit. I find using the empty gun and letting the woman dry fire is very effective. Teach her to keep her focus on the front sight. Start with soft .38 loads and gradually work up. Do not use the old "I'll put 5 soft ones in and one hot one." Women do not like surprises such as this. She will probably surprise you with how well she will shoot. The main worry I would have is the kids. If you have a microsafe to go with the gun, it would be a much better deal. Lastly, make sure she understands that you do not threaten with the gun. If you pull it you shoot. If she is not fully reconciled to taking a human life, she does not need the gun. Give her a large canister of bear pepper spray and a cell phone.
Bill DeShivs
New member
I'm not a lawyer-but......
There is no legal difference between loaning or selling. You are transferring possession (as long as the loan violates no laws.) If the loan/sale is legal, then there would be no legal repercussions if the gun were used in a SD situation.
And how would anyone prove the loan was not a sale or gift?
There is no legal difference between loaning or selling. You are transferring possession (as long as the loan violates no laws.) If the loan/sale is legal, then there would be no legal repercussions if the gun were used in a SD situation.
And how would anyone prove the loan was not a sale or gift?