You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Loading Black Powder Pistol Cartridges
- Thread starter John E.B. Rawton
- Start date
I loaded 10 test rounds with Aliant Black MZ with no lube, and 10 with home made (60/40 mix lard and bees wax). After the ten shots with no lube, I cleaned the bore and had scales of hardened fouling, with clearly seen rifling marks, come out on my patch. I'm now going to use the lube mix with a bullet similar to the one pictured in a post above.I’ve watched a few videos of people using standard cowboy bullets and removing the smokeless lube then applying a bp lube. Is there a need to do that with substitutes?
I also tried the process of using Goex black powder, covered by a disc punched from a playing card, then a lubricated felt wad, then another card, and finally the bullet. They shot well, but I don't think they were worth the extra effort. If my bullets had only very narrow lube rings, then I'd use the felt wads.
BTW, the gun is an Uberti Cattleman in 45 Colt, using a .452 RNFP bullet.
John E.B. Rawton
New member
I saw on the website for alliant black mz states to not use any lube. I have decided not to use substitutes just yet and am going to start out with the real stuff. I am going to make up some lube here at home and make up a few rounds for my .38s and .45s
Depending on the cases and powder grade, 34-37 gr is probably it.
I recently started loading substitute for BP cartridges after a terrible experience 30+ years ago. Back then, if you wanted a substitute it was either Pyrodex or Triple 7, neither of which works well for cartridges, so I loaded BP for rifle cartridges then. Fast forward 35 years. After doing some research and talking to other loaders, American Pioneer came out as the best option for loading BPCR with BP substitute. It comes in several f grades (fffg, ffg, fg, and cannon grades), but the Super and American Gold are different and I was told to avoid them. I bought ffg grade, loaded it just like BP, and fired it in my 40-70. It shot fine, cleaned up like nothing, and didn't have the mess and smell. It uses BP lube or smokeless lube, and seems to be accurate enough. If nothing else, give it a try.
I recently started loading substitute for BP cartridges after a terrible experience 30+ years ago. Back then, if you wanted a substitute it was either Pyrodex or Triple 7, neither of which works well for cartridges, so I loaded BP for rifle cartridges then. Fast forward 35 years. After doing some research and talking to other loaders, American Pioneer came out as the best option for loading BPCR with BP substitute. It comes in several f grades (fffg, ffg, fg, and cannon grades), but the Super and American Gold are different and I was told to avoid them. I bought ffg grade, loaded it just like BP, and fired it in my 40-70. It shot fine, cleaned up like nothing, and didn't have the mess and smell. It uses BP lube or smokeless lube, and seems to be accurate enough. If nothing else, give it a try.
John E.B. Rawton
New member
Well I got all the revolvers prepped for bp and loaded up 10 .38 spl and 10 .45 colt, full case of 18g and 35g dupont ffg. The bullets are commercial cast which I had to melt smokeless lube off and pan lubed with the home brew beeswax and crisco. They shot nice and seemed to carry enough lube. The test will be this weekend at the cowboy shoot. I’ll be shooting 30 rounds through each of my four revolvers. I suspect everything to be smooth.
John E.B. Rawton
New member
I am not shooting bp in my rifle. I will be shooting Josey Wales, all pistols, using Walkers in place of my rifle. Since my wife shoots smokeless and we only have one rifle, I’ll keep it clean for her. Plus my rifle is .45 colt and I hear they can get real dirty with blow back. The smokeless leaves a fair amount of soot in it.
Crunchy Frog
New member
I shoot .38 Special and when I get the urge to shoot Frontier Cartridge my usual load is a 158 grain bullet over APP, which does not require a soft lube. A friend uses Black MZ with standard cast bullets (hard lube) to good result. APP residue cleans up with tap water.
APP is hygroscopic out of the bottle. I have learned to clean my press and measure after acloading session to avoid rust.
APP is hygroscopic out of the bottle. I have learned to clean my press and measure after acloading session to avoid rust.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
So how did the shoot go?
For the record, I have been using nothing but Black Powder cartridges in all my CAS guns for at least 15 years now, maybe more.
Bullet Lube: I used to pan lube regular hard cast bullets with a mixture of about 50/50 Crisco/Beeswax. I found that regular hard cast bullets carry enough lube for a revolver, but would get starved for lube about 6" from the end of a rifle barrel, resulting in reduced accuracy. Then I started adding a grease cookie under the bullet between the powder and the bullet. I put a card wad between the grease cookie and the powder to keep it from adulterating the powder. This put more lube in the bore, but resulted in terrible accuracy because the lube cookie was sticking to the base of the bullet and making it fly like a lopsided dart. So I added another wad between the bullet and the cookie. Way too much work! Powder, wad, cookie, wad, bullet.
Then I discovered Big Lube bullets and never looked back. They carry enough soft bullet lube to keep the bullet well lubed for the longest rifle barrel.
I simply load the bullet directly on top of the powder, compressing the powder between 1/16" to 1/8" with the base of the bullet. That's it. No, the base of the bullet does not get deformed by the powder. I tested some loads with both a wad between the bullet and powder and some without. No significant difference in accuracy that I could measure. Less work is simpler for me.
No, I do not use a drop tube to settle the powder for my CAS loads. No need. For my single shot 45-70 loads, yes. But not for my 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, or 38-40 loads.
When I was still pan lubing I put wads on top of my 44-40 loads all the time. No problem.
So how did the shoot go?
For the record, I have been using nothing but Black Powder cartridges in all my CAS guns for at least 15 years now, maybe more.
Bullet Lube: I used to pan lube regular hard cast bullets with a mixture of about 50/50 Crisco/Beeswax. I found that regular hard cast bullets carry enough lube for a revolver, but would get starved for lube about 6" from the end of a rifle barrel, resulting in reduced accuracy. Then I started adding a grease cookie under the bullet between the powder and the bullet. I put a card wad between the grease cookie and the powder to keep it from adulterating the powder. This put more lube in the bore, but resulted in terrible accuracy because the lube cookie was sticking to the base of the bullet and making it fly like a lopsided dart. So I added another wad between the bullet and the cookie. Way too much work! Powder, wad, cookie, wad, bullet.
Then I discovered Big Lube bullets and never looked back. They carry enough soft bullet lube to keep the bullet well lubed for the longest rifle barrel.
I simply load the bullet directly on top of the powder, compressing the powder between 1/16" to 1/8" with the base of the bullet. That's it. No, the base of the bullet does not get deformed by the powder. I tested some loads with both a wad between the bullet and powder and some without. No significant difference in accuracy that I could measure. Less work is simpler for me.
No, I do not use a drop tube to settle the powder for my CAS loads. No need. For my single shot 45-70 loads, yes. But not for my 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, or 38-40 loads.
When I was still pan lubing I put wads on top of my 44-40 loads all the time. No problem.
John E.B. Rawton
New member
Driftwood,
The cowboy shoot was awesome. Shooting bp put a whole new twist on it and I know I was a grinnin’ fool.
I shot 118 out 120 using all four pistols. One miss and one misfire due to a weak primer strike. I think the kirst pin was getting fouled.
The .38s ran great but the .45s, not so good. My big mistake I learned, was not lubing up the arbor and they would bind almost every stage.
I’ve been spending time fine tuning the arbor seat and cylinder clearance on the walkers.
The cowboy shoot was awesome. Shooting bp put a whole new twist on it and I know I was a grinnin’ fool.
I shot 118 out 120 using all four pistols. One miss and one misfire due to a weak primer strike. I think the kirst pin was getting fouled.
The .38s ran great but the .45s, not so good. My big mistake I learned, was not lubing up the arbor and they would bind almost every stage.
I’ve been spending time fine tuning the arbor seat and cylinder clearance on the walkers.