load help ?

wel if one of you guys finds a way to shoot converging groups be sure to send a copy of your results to Litz and he will give you a free vacation to Michigan. I'd hold out for him footing the bill for lodging, rental car and meals and insist on first class plane tickets

The Applied Ballistics 'Shoot Thru Target' Challange
I'm inviting any shooter who has a rifle which exhibits non-linear dispersion to the Applied Ballistics Laboratory in Michigan to demonstrate the effect. I'll pay your travel and hotel stay (If you successfully demonstrate the effect, I'll even pay your *return* travel as well ;) ) The objective is to produce a repeatable example of this phenomena so it can be studied and hopefully we can learn what's going on, and if it's how bullets really fly, or not.
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in the four years since he issued the challenge no one has been able to do it so far
 
in the four years since he issued the challenge no one has been able to do it so far
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Judging by the only 30 odd responses in that thread, and no mention by anyone there of any plan to try the experiment, this is not surprising. Current rifle I'm experiencing this with is topped with a scope with fixed parallax. I'm beginning to wonder if that isn't the issue after fully reading every post in the accurate shooter thread. Note I never made any claims as to why this happened, I just noted that it does in fact happen to me.

Next chance I get at having control of the 300 yard range I'm going to set this up. I am wildly curious now. Will probably do a control showing 3 strings of 5 round groups at 100, then 300, and then I'll do 3 strings of the pass-through target test. I know what the 100 then 300 yard will be. I've done it over and over and over.
 
rebs
Good setup , I felt you were good but had to ask . Settle behind your rifle and show us some one hole groups .

Chris
 
to quote post 9 of this link

I agree with you that some of the dispersion components are nonlinear to range (bc variation, MV variation, wind) but some are linear. However the way I see it, there is no way how lateral initial velocity of bullet alone could lead to nonlinear dispersion or "trumpet like trajectory". Let's think about this...

I'll quote you the newton's first law:

"Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it."

I ask you this: What is the force which makes the dispersion to curve along the trajectory if bullet gets a lateral velocity component at the muzzle?

Let's think about this another way. Bullet has a velocity vector when it leaves the muzzle. Vector can always be divided into components but drag affects to all of those components equally (this is because bullet aligns against incoming airflow as you show in your books). That leads to conclusion that "lateral" velocity component slows down also. So the velocity component due to launch dynamics leads still only to linear dispersion, not TOF dispersion.

For example let's assume a perfect bullet with 1000 m/s MV launched from rigid barrel. Then there is no dispersion at all. Now let's assume same bullet leaving from a flexible barrel with lateral velocity of 1 m/s. Now bullet leaves the barrel with initial velocity of (1000^2+1^2)^0.5 = 1000.0005 m/s and angle of atan(1/1000)*180/pi*60 = 3.44 MOA. So in practice initial velocity is still the same but now bullet got 3.44 MOA of LINEAR dispersion.
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http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/bullet-dispersion.3863237/

I am a big fan of science and math, you outta see me P off the annealing and neck tension fans arguing ductility vs elasticity

I am haven't got a lot of interest to attempt the "pass through target" test. I would have find a rare day in order to have enough cold range time to do the setup. If I lived in Nevada or someplace with millions of acres of shooting range in my backyard I might give it a shot...pun intended

Anyway for a science geek it would be the equivelent of jumping off a cliff to see if I would fall
 
Am betting I personally misused the term ductility for elasticity for years, but have never annealed a case.

Again, am of belief that if this was a matter of differing aiming technique at 300 yards, it would be happening with majority of loads. Maybe some people are just "magic shooters", that shoot better at 300 yds? :) All my distance rifles have adj parallax scopes.

Maybe will buy another box of the 175 gn sierra tmk in next bulk bullet purchase, or see if i had any of the old tipped 22 mag on the shelves left over.
 
rebs
Good setup , I felt you were good but had to ask . Settle behind your rifle and show us some one hole groups .

Chris
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with the weather here and temps in the 20's and low 30's it may be a while before I get to shoot. LOL
 
rebs
Same with me , until the end of April is usually the start of my season . I must be getting soft , I don't shoot when temps are under 50 . Stay warm .

Chris
 
rebs
Same with me , until the end of April is usually the start of my season . I must be getting soft , I don't shoot when temps are under 50 . Stay warm .
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You poor guys , it rarely gets under 50 here . I think the coldest I've shot in is the mid 50"s but have shot quite a bit in the low 100's though . I live by the coast but the range I shoot at is 20 miles inland which can be 20 degrees hotter then it is at my house . Yep I shoot year round ;)

Back to the OP topic , I agree completely that you should concentrate on one rifle at a time. I have multiple rifles of the same caliber/cartridge and unless it's a plinking load each rifle gets it's own individual work up . I've only had one load of MANY that shot great in all my rifles . Some loads shoot pretty good in all my rifle of the same caliber but there's always one it shoots best in .
 
If one only shot in warm weather here, would miss most the year. Nothing like shooting in the 20's with wind and snow on the ground to completely remove you from your comfort level. Priorities may change to being able to see downrange, actually hitting your target and not having AD's from shooting with gloves/facemask on. Also a chance to see how your rounds behave in varying conditions. And certainly tougher when you get to be the grandfatherly age.

Not that i wouldn't really enjoy mild weather most of the year.
 
I only said not in the 20's and low 30's. If it hits 43 or more I do go to the range to shoot some plinking rounds. I just don't stay as long as I do in warm weather. LOL
 
When i was young, thought i was strong and brave. Now that i am old, realize i was just drunk and stupid.
 
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