load help ?
- Thread starter rebs
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scatterbrain
New member
If you shoot 1" at 100 you will shoot 2" at 200 and 3" at 300. What type gun, scope and trigger do you have, and what do you want to shoot?
m&p45acp10+1
New member
If it shoots well at 100 yards there is no guarantee it will do well farther out. However I have as of yet seen a time where a load did poorly at 100 yards, and did well farther out.
My loads I work up at 100 yards to get a base line. Also less room for environmental conditions to throw things off too much.
I work up loads at 100. If I am going to go farther out I may zero my scope to a longer distance such as 300 or 500 yards. 300 for hunting elk here in Nebraska. 500 for 1000 yard steel shooting. That is due to the fact that I will have enough scope correction left to adjust if needed.
My loads I work up at 100 yards to get a base line. Also less room for environmental conditions to throw things off too much.
I work up loads at 100. If I am going to go farther out I may zero my scope to a longer distance such as 300 or 500 yards. 300 for hunting elk here in Nebraska. 500 for 1000 yard steel shooting. That is due to the fact that I will have enough scope correction left to adjust if needed.
If you review all of the usual calibers for deer - .243, .270, 264, .284, .308, and you sight in at 200 yards, they all hit 1.5-2" at 100 and 6-8 inches at 300 yards. So the "flat shooting" mantra is nothing more than advertisement. Just start at 200 if you're hunting and aim right where you would normally aim anywhere from 100 to 300.
You'll learn this quickly if you have a scope like Burris Ballistic Plex, Nikon, etc. with dots or hashes on the vertical reticle.
You'll learn this quickly if you have a scope like Burris Ballistic Plex, Nikon, etc. with dots or hashes on the vertical reticle.
Rebs,
Do not try to compensate your powder charge to help you shoot longer distances.
Your powder charge is your powder charge. If sighted at 100, or 1,000 yards, it doesn't change.
Your learning reloading, now you'll be learning ballistics. The art/science of how bullets "fly".
There are tools to help you.
Strelok is available on your phone. There is a free version, and a paid version(Strelok Pro).
There are others also.
On your computer there is JBM Ballistics Calculator that you can check out also.
Do not try to compensate your powder charge to help you shoot longer distances.
Your powder charge is your powder charge. If sighted at 100, or 1,000 yards, it doesn't change.
Your learning reloading, now you'll be learning ballistics. The art/science of how bullets "fly".
There are tools to help you.
Strelok is available on your phone. There is a free version, and a paid version(Strelok Pro).
There are others also.
On your computer there is JBM Ballistics Calculator that you can check out also.
I don’t understand the question ? std7mag is correct , your load is your load you adjust the elevation on the scope to compensate for bullet drop . Or is your question something different ?
What firearm are you shooting . If an AR , a 50yd zero is also a 200yd zero-ish and is what all my AR’s are zeroed at except my NM rifle .
What type of shooting is this zero/load to do ?
What firearm are you shooting . If an AR , a 50yd zero is also a 200yd zero-ish and is what all my AR’s are zeroed at except my NM rifle .
What type of shooting is this zero/load to do ?
"However I have as of yet seen a time where a load did poorly at 100 yards, and did well farther out."
Have had bullets not completely stabilize at 100, and were actually more accurate at 200-300 yards. 175 Sierra tmk out of 1::11 twist would be a specific example. Almost prematurely gave up on the bullet, till loaded up the left overs and tried them at 300 yds.
Have had bullets not completely stabilize at 100, and were actually more accurate at 200-300 yards. 175 Sierra tmk out of 1::11 twist would be a specific example. Almost prematurely gave up on the bullet, till loaded up the left overs and tried them at 300 yds.
rebs
With your AR's I would stick to 100yards to tighten up the groups before going any longer . Have you tried different weight bullets or powder . Once you consistently shoot 1/2 inch or better then go 200 . No need to change anything from 1 - 200yards once you find a load that works .
With your AR's I would stick to 100yards to tighten up the groups before going any longer . Have you tried different weight bullets or powder . Once you consistently shoot 1/2 inch or better then go 200 . No need to change anything from 1 - 200yards once you find a load that works .
Very unlikely a load that shoots 1moa at 100 is going to shoot sub 3/4moa at 300 . My experience shows the opposite. The further i shoot the larger the groups get but if i have a load that shoots sub 3/4 moa or better at 100 . I usually can keep them sub moa out to 300 but anything further and groups start opening up .
When you start shooting further distances , it’s really important you lock in as the shooter . Anything past 200 and even your heart beat starts to show up in the reticle so breath , trigger squeeze, cheek weld , well everything starts to matter more then it did at 100 yards . Lets not forget about the wind . Even a 3 to 5mph wind gust can blow up your sub moa group at 300+ yards . My recommendation is work up a load to sub moa at 100yds and that load should do well for you at any distance if you do your part .
Example , here is a 10 shot .85moa group I shot with my 20" NM AR at 100yds with 8 of those shots in a 1/2 moa cluster . I'm tickled pink if I can shoot a 5 shot moa group at 300 with that same load .
I don't have the article on hand but keep in mind weighing the cases will do nothing for your load development . internal case volume is what matters and that is measured by water . Unless your case weight differences are 8+ grains you really won't know if the internal volume is different from case to case .
Here it is , scroll about 1/4 to 1/3 down the page to see the 223 case volume to case weight test .
http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
When you start shooting further distances , it’s really important you lock in as the shooter . Anything past 200 and even your heart beat starts to show up in the reticle so breath , trigger squeeze, cheek weld , well everything starts to matter more then it did at 100 yards . Lets not forget about the wind . Even a 3 to 5mph wind gust can blow up your sub moa group at 300+ yards . My recommendation is work up a load to sub moa at 100yds and that load should do well for you at any distance if you do your part .
Example , here is a 10 shot .85moa group I shot with my 20" NM AR at 100yds with 8 of those shots in a 1/2 moa cluster . I'm tickled pink if I can shoot a 5 shot moa group at 300 with that same load .
I don't have the article on hand but keep in mind weighing the cases will do nothing for your load development . internal case volume is what matters and that is measured by water . Unless your case weight differences are 8+ grains you really won't know if the internal volume is different from case to case .
Here it is , scroll about 1/4 to 1/3 down the page to see the 223 case volume to case weight test .
http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
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Longer bullets not completely stabilizing in slower twists is unusual, but real enough. Not in regard to actual group size, but in MOA. Have experienced it with the previous load mentioned, and also with a cz 452 22 mag, when they came out with tipped bullets. With the 22 mag the bullets were more accurate at 100 yds than at 50 yds.
A little off topic, but it be real phenomenon, and actually experienced it. Might be reason older version 223 armor piercing (not sure if that is correct name) work better at longer distances.
A little off topic, but it be real phenomenon, and actually experienced it. Might be reason older version 223 armor piercing (not sure if that is correct name) work better at longer distances.
Don Fischer
New member
I don't get this stuff about bullet's stabilizing down range and actually shooting better down range than at 100yds. My opinion on a 1" group maintain MOA to whatever range is it probably will. The flaw come's in with the shooter. Will they drift off down range? I'm sure they will for what ever reason. Try this, shoot just as small a group at 25 yds as you can get. Now try to duplicate it at 100 yds, probably can't! farther away the aiming point is the harder to hold the exact same every time! Most of us, me for sure, lack the skill to shoot as well as our rifle's shoot!
ammo.crafter
New member
100 to 200
As others have advised, develop your 200 yard load and then determine where it impacts at other ranges like 100yds, 300yds and 50yds.
Do not increase your powder charge...that will do nothing vis-a-vis accuracy at twice the distance you currently shoot.
Or, simply sight in at 100yds and see how accurate it is at 200yds.
As others have advised, develop your 200 yard load and then determine where it impacts at other ranges like 100yds, 300yds and 50yds.
Do not increase your powder charge...that will do nothing vis-a-vis accuracy at twice the distance you currently shoot.
Or, simply sight in at 100yds and see how accurate it is at 200yds.
Zeke , I think the hard thing for anyone to wrap there head around when it comes to group size getting smaller at longer range is , To say a bullet/group is 1moa at 100 but shoots 1/2moa at 300 would mean the trajectory actual curves back to the center of aim . It's hard to imagen a bullet flying slightly to the right of point of aim ( POA ) out to 100yds then curves back to (POA ) a couple hundred yards further down range . Even if true that would then mean at many hundreds of yards down range the group opens back up again because that slight left turn it took to get back on POA at 300 has now over compensated it self at 600 ?? Unless we're talking the complete trajectory is in a "S" snake like line the full length of the trajectory with the bullet flying back and forth through out it's flight ???
At best "maybe" I could except that a bullet starts out to the right or where ever and then at some point down range "fully" stabilizes . At that point it now fly's truer/straighter then it had been but does not come back to point of aim . Rather it continues at the same MOA width it fully stabilized at and is no longer moving off in the direction it started at . I'm sure there's a better way to say that , I'll think about it and change if I come up with better wording .
At best "maybe" I could except that a bullet starts out to the right or where ever and then at some point down range "fully" stabilizes . At that point it now fly's truer/straighter then it had been but does not come back to point of aim . Rather it continues at the same MOA width it fully stabilized at and is no longer moving off in the direction it started at . I'm sure there's a better way to say that , I'll think about it and change if I come up with better wording .
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Don Fischer
New member
I don't develop a load for for say 200yds. I develop a load at 100yds normally 3" high. Once I get group where I want, I calculate MPBR, max point blank range, for that load using a particular target size. I do not shoot at big game over 300yds and with very little hold over at 300yds all my rifle's will drop bullet's right in at 300 yds. At every range between zero and 300 yds, the bullet will hit in the target size. Big game rifle's I'm doing 8" target and my predator rifle, 243, is sighted in with a 3" target. That's about all you can see with only the head showing above deep grass. Helps over deep grass a great deal but limits MPBR to 229 yds bt at 300yds set like that the bullet, 75gr V-Max is only a bit over 6.5" low! Does start getting radical after that! The advantage for me is at the londer range's I will shoot, I don't have to worry about hold over much at all. On big game I use the 8" target and don't have a worry at all out to 300 yds should for some reason I decide to shoot that far! My 30-06 with a 180gr bullet zeroed like that hit's right at 8" low at 300yds! Cross wire's never leave the animal!
Metal God-again, it is not about the specific group size. As an example, 1 moa at 100 yds is 1 in. 1/2 moa at 300 yards is 1.5 in. The actual group size at 300 yards is larger, but the 300 yard groups are better than the 100 yard groups. In some specific instances the bullet may not fully stabilize at 100 yds, and is by 300 yds and groups better. The older timers described this as the bullet "going to sleep" Perhaps i should have said it is more precise.
It does not happen all the time, but it does occur with some specific length bullets and rifling twists. And it happens whether some posters have experienced it or not. It is not a new concept by any means.
It does not happen all the time, but it does occur with some specific length bullets and rifling twists. And it happens whether some posters have experienced it or not. It is not a new concept by any means.
Brings me back to my other love baseball I was a pitcher throwing a curve ball . What I did was find the best load shooting very tight groups at 100 yards then went to 200 yards , even at 200 yards it was a different ball game . My rounds were 2" low only had to adjust elevation with slight tweaking . Most of the time I felt it was me , you have to find the best hold , heavy , medium or light , trigger press and hand position , cheekweld . All has to be the same shot to shot or your target will show it . It's not always the bullet
On paper that does not seem possible . Here is a drawing of what I believe you are saying . The 1moa trajectory in black and your idea in red . It sure appears , at least on paper the bullets need to make a turn mid flight .
For your theory to be true that red line trajectory would need to happen more often then not , a lot more . If it happens once and a while , that's likely just all your good karma stacking up to zero resulting in a better group then you normally would get .