load for bear
- Thread starter riverratt
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Love em!swedish champion
New member
I live rurally, 75 miles northwest of anchorage in big lake Alaska. I have to walk or boat about 3 miles to the nearest road to my house. This ritual has me in constant proximity to a couple generations of browns that live behind my place. In the late 70s, my father dispatched a large blonde grizzly in self defense with what was, at the time, considered a formidable sidearm. A 1962 s+w 29 44 mag. He had pretty standard 1400 f.p.s. Jacketed soft points, Remington I believe. Nothing special, store bought. He said he used the double action, and was nervous. Fired four rounds in steady sequence. Two were superficial, one in shoulder, one disabled the bruin mortally. Dad said it stopped charging, spun around a few times, than fell over and layed there panting until my grandfather, close by, arrived and dispatched it finally with a 338 win mag to the head. I've shoo'd a black out of my kitchen, with a 12 ga. As backup once, and been "bluff-rushed" twice by two different browns. One stared me down so long, I was late for work. Sizing me up. Both times. I u holstered my revolver, cocked it, took aim and waited quietly as they did the same dance. Both advanced at a run...stopped abruptly at about 75 ft, woof loudly, and swat at the earth. I was never so unrealistically calm as both those times, as after they retreat, my heart races and fear grips a bit after the fact. The logic I used originally was, ".44 mag worked for dad" after the first experience I stepped up caliber out of fear and got the biggest thing I could find, which was a magnum research B.f.r. Chambered in 45-70 gvt. I feel more confident with the larger pistol. My father is 69, and STILL carries that same Smith, loaded with essentially the same ammunition. The point of all this being, he had the "experience" and that weapon seems to keep his confidence.
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/6422519.R_Keith_Rogan
Keith was a member here at one time.
He left after trying to impress on people how futile carrying a handgun is as a defense against a charging Grizzly bear.
Anyhow to answer the OP - just search here for Keith's posts.
He was attacked and mauled and survived.
Three things none of us other "Arm chair wannabe's" can say.
Keith was a member here at one time.
He left after trying to impress on people how futile carrying a handgun is as a defense against a charging Grizzly bear.
Anyhow to answer the OP - just search here for Keith's posts.
He was attacked and mauled and survived.
Three things none of us other "Arm chair wannabe's" can say.
Andy Blozinski
New member
Well, Hal...the post before yours definitively shows how it is NOT futile to carry a pistol as a defense against a bear. This was not a wannabe fantasy. It was a real world experience.
Like all things, a lot depends on the situation and the participants on both sides. You will not get identical results every time.
Like all things, a lot depends on the situation and the participants on both sides. You will not get identical results every time.
zachattack2
New member
A big old 44 magnum like Dirty Harry, or a 50 cal if you wish. A 44 mag is big enough and strong enough to kill a bear but a 50 cal would destroy it.
In .44 mag I've got a 10.9mm mag load using Hornady XTP 300 grain hollow point in the second cannelure ahead of 24 grains of 2400. It is too long for anything except Ruger Super Black hawkor Super Black hawk at about 1400fps. It could handle two more grains of 2400 but it is brutal with Pachymer grips in the Black Hawk 7 1/2leaving rubber on your hand as is.
I bought some, not loading for yet some DT Hunter with 360 grain lead at less than 28,000 psi 1175 fps, 7 1/2 barrel,designed primarily for carbines but safe in early Vaqueros and Black Hawks in .45 Colt.
It is hell for stout and it will take down any bear if hit properly. Might wreck your wrist too. I wore gloves and it still pounded my finger web of hand and palm of supporting hand.
I noticed they had and so did HPR 260 grain loads at 1400 fps in 45.
I think I need a carbine for these Casull level loads if carrying in bear country.
Need an excuse for a new gun anyway.
The Smith .500 sounds nice except I would want some else to fire it, perhaps.
Remember how you can tell if it black bear scat or Griz in National Parks?
The Black Bear scat has berries and leaves in it.
The Griz smells like pepper and has little bells in it.
Don't think I won't to fend off a Griz with condiments nor do I want til they are 10 to 15 ft away to try.
I bought some, not loading for yet some DT Hunter with 360 grain lead at less than 28,000 psi 1175 fps, 7 1/2 barrel,designed primarily for carbines but safe in early Vaqueros and Black Hawks in .45 Colt.
It is hell for stout and it will take down any bear if hit properly. Might wreck your wrist too. I wore gloves and it still pounded my finger web of hand and palm of supporting hand.
I noticed they had and so did HPR 260 grain loads at 1400 fps in 45.
I think I need a carbine for these Casull level loads if carrying in bear country.
Need an excuse for a new gun anyway.
The Smith .500 sounds nice except I would want some else to fire it, perhaps.
Remember how you can tell if it black bear scat or Griz in National Parks?
The Black Bear scat has berries and leaves in it.
The Griz smells like pepper and has little bells in it.
Don't think I won't to fend off a Griz with condiments nor do I want til they are 10 to 15 ft away to try.
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Deaf Smith
New member
While I would prefer a 12 gauge pump with Bernanke 'black magic' slugs for bear protection, a .44 magnum, IF you can handle it well, would be a minimum. At least you could wear the gun and have it at all times.
Deaf
Deaf
guns and bears
"Evidently not well enough"
That comment borders on silliness.
He could have had a howitzer and it may have made no difference.
What firearm one chooses to carry is not the issue, not really.
How well you are able shoot is the issue. So is luck.
Pretty much any of the guns and cartridges mentioned will kill any bear that lives... If the shot is placed well, if you get a chance to shoot.
.357, .44, .454, .460, .500, 12 gauge Brenneke -- in the event of a charge you still have to hit the animal in a way that STOPS it right there and then.
An old friend of mine was talking about this idea regarding hunting lion in Africa. His point about cartridge choice was similar to the above.... you can kill lions all day long with a .30-06 but when one charges, you need a cartridge that will stop the animal.... knock it down, bowl it over.... not three seconds after it has run you over but NOW..... and you need to be able to shoot well enough to do that.
There surely are "stopping rifles" (and you still have to learn to shoot them) .... there aren't any "stopping" pistols that I know of.
Just sayin'.
This doesn't help the OP who asked about a pistol. The best advice so far is to get the most powerful pistol that you can shoot well. (and then practice so that you can shoot it better).
"Evidently not well enough"
That comment borders on silliness.
He could have had a howitzer and it may have made no difference.
What firearm one chooses to carry is not the issue, not really.
How well you are able shoot is the issue. So is luck.
Pretty much any of the guns and cartridges mentioned will kill any bear that lives... If the shot is placed well, if you get a chance to shoot.
.357, .44, .454, .460, .500, 12 gauge Brenneke -- in the event of a charge you still have to hit the animal in a way that STOPS it right there and then.
An old friend of mine was talking about this idea regarding hunting lion in Africa. His point about cartridge choice was similar to the above.... you can kill lions all day long with a .30-06 but when one charges, you need a cartridge that will stop the animal.... knock it down, bowl it over.... not three seconds after it has run you over but NOW..... and you need to be able to shoot well enough to do that.
There surely are "stopping rifles" (and you still have to learn to shoot them) .... there aren't any "stopping" pistols that I know of.
Just sayin'.
This doesn't help the OP who asked about a pistol. The best advice so far is to get the most powerful pistol that you can shoot well. (and then practice so that you can shoot it better).
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swedish champion
New member
biggest thing i can get...
Many interesting points here. I suppose the outlook of "choice of weapon is not the issue, the shooter is" kind of p.o.v. Is pretty valid. One COULD have a howitzer, use it poorly...then get his ribs scraped bare, and his skull chomped apon like a doggie chew toy (browns love both these practices). I for one, do not think for a second that I could "handle any attack". I might be in the fish and game newsletter tomorrow. I WILL say, when I'm out, I'll carry the most powerful weapon I reasonably can, loaded with the nastiest ammunition. I've hurt myself, many times. I've not been able to close my hand fully after shooting some of the pistols I own. Doesn't bother me, you won't hear me complain...because if I unload those weapons in time of need, the 3,400 foot lbs of searing recoil in my right hand will be the best feeling in the world, and I still might become a victim, but I'll get a A for effort, and BROWNy points for preparedness. Heh...
Many interesting points here. I suppose the outlook of "choice of weapon is not the issue, the shooter is" kind of p.o.v. Is pretty valid. One COULD have a howitzer, use it poorly...then get his ribs scraped bare, and his skull chomped apon like a doggie chew toy (browns love both these practices). I for one, do not think for a second that I could "handle any attack". I might be in the fish and game newsletter tomorrow. I WILL say, when I'm out, I'll carry the most powerful weapon I reasonably can, loaded with the nastiest ammunition. I've hurt myself, many times. I've not been able to close my hand fully after shooting some of the pistols I own. Doesn't bother me, you won't hear me complain...because if I unload those weapons in time of need, the 3,400 foot lbs of searing recoil in my right hand will be the best feeling in the world, and I still might become a victim, but I'll get a A for effort, and BROWNy points for preparedness. Heh...
Since I know I am not much of a pistol shot, I would put for a rifle, lever action .30-30 or even down to a .357 lever gun. Heck I certainly wouldn't turn away from an AR properly loaded with with heavier nosler part, Barnes x, bonded whatever bullets. I know I can rapidly place bullets on target with a rifle.
I don't live in Bear country, so any comment I make is my opinion only and based only my hunting, hiking time in CO and even then only in Black Bear turf.
The majority seem to favor a .44 Mag with around a 300 gr HCGC bullet and my thinking is that should do about as well as any handgun can. Yes, the .454 and up enter into the conversation, but I have shoot just about any caliber there is and the .44 Mag is about my limit, you get into mega magnum and you get into hard to control, muzzle blast and probably portability. Those big mags are heavy and bulky and slow to deploy.
I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley with3.75" barrel in .44 Mag that when I am iin Bear country, is my choice of sidearm when I am in CO. I have some 340 gr Underwood HCGC that I would not hesitate to carry. If you have never popped a cap on one, it is an experience. If that load fails, and I have no way of testing short of an actual bear attack, all the hype and caliber suggestions will not help. I guess what I am trying to say is NO handgun is a sure thing so if you have to rely on one, but carry one you can shoot well, listen to those who know and stay alert.
The majority seem to favor a .44 Mag with around a 300 gr HCGC bullet and my thinking is that should do about as well as any handgun can. Yes, the .454 and up enter into the conversation, but I have shoot just about any caliber there is and the .44 Mag is about my limit, you get into mega magnum and you get into hard to control, muzzle blast and probably portability. Those big mags are heavy and bulky and slow to deploy.
I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley with3.75" barrel in .44 Mag that when I am iin Bear country, is my choice of sidearm when I am in CO. I have some 340 gr Underwood HCGC that I would not hesitate to carry. If you have never popped a cap on one, it is an experience. If that load fails, and I have no way of testing short of an actual bear attack, all the hype and caliber suggestions will not help. I guess what I am trying to say is NO handgun is a sure thing so if you have to rely on one, but carry one you can shoot well, listen to those who know and stay alert.
walks with gun
New member
I've been told, if you hang small bells on your dogs collar it will alarm wolves and bears before you stumble onto them. Might make them easier to track later if they do eat your dog, their scat will have little bells in it. If you know your traveling in big bear country than a rifle is the logical choice.
ATPBULLETS
New member
Good map...
http://www.backpacker.com/survival/survival-animal-attacks/
Didn't realize cougars were so spread out....heard about one here...did not believe it till now...
One of the grizz's that I witnessed in the wild was at about 200yds ....ran up a hill faster that any 4 wheeler could from a start... I was shocked how quick it was...it covered 100yds in just about 3 seconds in a steep uphill run thru junk that would have tripped up any human trying to run.
You carry a gun...? Then load it appropriately...
1. enough of one that will stop the animal if hit;
2. practice to make number one likely for your part.
3. Most people think the Bear minimum is 357 for black
and 41-44 min for Brown.
http://www.backpacker.com/survival/survival-animal-attacks/
Didn't realize cougars were so spread out....heard about one here...did not believe it till now...
One of the grizz's that I witnessed in the wild was at about 200yds ....ran up a hill faster that any 4 wheeler could from a start... I was shocked how quick it was...it covered 100yds in just about 3 seconds in a steep uphill run thru junk that would have tripped up any human trying to run.
You carry a gun...? Then load it appropriately...
1. enough of one that will stop the animal if hit;
2. practice to make number one likely for your part.
3. Most people think the Bear minimum is 357 for black
and 41-44 min for Brown.
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Not anticipating any Griz in KY are you, padnuh? I'm up in Oldham County and we're short of them as well as the black ones. But kidding aside, the biggest caliber you can handle at very close range, that'll shoot more than once in a split second is the route to go.
Having packed out elk quarters at sundown in Colorado's high country, then finding FRESH bear tracks in my back trail, I'd recommend nothing less than a DA .44 Magnum. On that memorable day, with my rifle back in the jeep to save packing weight, I resolved never to be caught again without at least a heavy caliber revolver. Nothing happened that evening, but I felt like I was back in Vietnam, looking for Mig 21's coming out of the sun...still makes the hair on the back of my neck raise up.
I've not been back in that country since and age won't allow me to anticipate another sojourn thataway, but a heavy Smith N frame in .44 Magnum, or one of the current crop of .454's, 460's, 480's or 500's might fill the bill with suitable bullets.
For more likely scenarios, here in KY, I carry a 3" Smith j-frame in .357 Magnum, loaded with a gas checked SWC of my own casting and pushed along at 1100 fps by a healthy dose of 2400. Tracking in dense cover, the little gun is easier to handle than even my .35 Marlin Carbine, and keeps both hands free to part brush during a trail-up, or a finishing shot from 10 feet.
Last season, I helped a young hunter and his clueless dad track down a very large buck they'd wounded at day break. We finally found it just after noon. I'd spent a large part of my time on hands and knees that morning in the wild roses tracking from drop to drop, while convincing 'Dad' that he owed that animal at least a morning's search. Finally, a single shot in the back of the neck from that Smith, killed the buck from 50 feet as he stood up one last time.
The dad and 12 yo learned a cpl lessons that morning, I'm sure; be sure of your shot, don't take chancy ones, use enough gun, and you don't quit a trail up 'cause you've got a soccer match that afternoon. Nuff said.
HTH's Rod
Having packed out elk quarters at sundown in Colorado's high country, then finding FRESH bear tracks in my back trail, I'd recommend nothing less than a DA .44 Magnum. On that memorable day, with my rifle back in the jeep to save packing weight, I resolved never to be caught again without at least a heavy caliber revolver. Nothing happened that evening, but I felt like I was back in Vietnam, looking for Mig 21's coming out of the sun...still makes the hair on the back of my neck raise up.
I've not been back in that country since and age won't allow me to anticipate another sojourn thataway, but a heavy Smith N frame in .44 Magnum, or one of the current crop of .454's, 460's, 480's or 500's might fill the bill with suitable bullets.
For more likely scenarios, here in KY, I carry a 3" Smith j-frame in .357 Magnum, loaded with a gas checked SWC of my own casting and pushed along at 1100 fps by a healthy dose of 2400. Tracking in dense cover, the little gun is easier to handle than even my .35 Marlin Carbine, and keeps both hands free to part brush during a trail-up, or a finishing shot from 10 feet.
Last season, I helped a young hunter and his clueless dad track down a very large buck they'd wounded at day break. We finally found it just after noon. I'd spent a large part of my time on hands and knees that morning in the wild roses tracking from drop to drop, while convincing 'Dad' that he owed that animal at least a morning's search. Finally, a single shot in the back of the neck from that Smith, killed the buck from 50 feet as he stood up one last time.
The dad and 12 yo learned a cpl lessons that morning, I'm sure; be sure of your shot, don't take chancy ones, use enough gun, and you don't quit a trail up 'cause you've got a soccer match that afternoon. Nuff said.
HTH's Rod
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