Light triggers, CCW, and Striker Fired Guns

[TunnelRat]

All of the above guns have triggers lighter than most 1911's so the comparison is valid. I wouldn't carry a 1911 with the safety off.

I get what you’re saying, but to me there is more to what makes the 1911 trigger a 1911 trigger than just the pull weight. Length of pre-travel, crispness and shortness of the trigger break, etc. And that’s without getting into the difference in terms of internal safeties such as the absence of a firing pin block with many 1911s, which in part contributes to that excellent trigger pull.


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[RWNine]

My P238 has a trigger pull approaching 8# but it’s very short and I always carry it with the safety on. Personally, I don’t like thumb safeties on anything other that 1911 type handguns.

 

[Forte S+W]

I'm accustomed to the feel of long DA Triggers since that's what I started out shooting with, but lately I've been carrying a Performance Center M&P40 Shield with a light trigger. Fortunately, it has both a trigger safety as well as a manual frame mounted safety switch, otherwise I would be uncomfortable carrying it.

 

[gbclarkson]

Once upon a time, I had a Bersa BP9cc which had a very light trigger. I loved the feel of that gun. As a CC gun, though, it made me a bit nervous. I ended up selling it because it refused to cycle hollow points reliably.

 

[10-96]

Are they making these for people who are not great shooters to make them better at shooting?

Back to the OP- I think THIS is the vast majority of firearms marketing in a nutshell these days.

 

[TunnelRat]

Are they making these for people who are not great shooters to make them better at shooting?

Honest question along these lines. Don’t we want manufacturers to make firearms that are more conducive to easier shooting? The lease hear me out.

I don’t want a pistol with abysmal sights. With the focus issues due to my vision I really benefit from a red dot on a pistol. Even without that I benefit from a good set of iron sights that are readily viewable rather than nubs. These features are to an extent enabling me to shoot better. Does that make the inclusion of these features inherently wrong?

Now a good counter to the above is a trigger has a direct impact on safety. Even if I would argue identifying your target in relation to your sights also has an impact on safety, I accept that critique. My question is, and I had a thread about this not long ago, is where is that line where we cross from a trigger that can be shot well but is safe to a trigger that can be shot well but is unsafe?

On a hammer fired pistol you can use a hammer spring that runs the gamut, or on a striker fired pistol the same is true of the striker spring. Besides ensuring more reliable ignition of the cartridge, they also increase the trigger pull. A manufacturer can (and some do) make trigger pulls that border or exceed 12 lb. That requires more force, simply speaking, than an 8 lb. trigger. Does that mean to be safe we should have 12 lb. triggers? As a side effect the pistol will generally be harder to shoot well in terms of maintaining that sight picture while the trigger is pressed to the rear than that 8 lb. trigger (assuming all other aspects of the trigger are the same).

This isn’t me saying I think any and all trigger weights and lengths of travel are fine. I have my own specifications that I wouldn’t go below. My point is simply a firearms manufacturer making a product that is easier to shoot for the end user isn’t inherently a bad thing.


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[adamBomb]

Now a good counter to the above is a trigger has a direct impact on safety. Even if I would argue identifying your target in relation to your sights also has an impact on safety, I accept that critique. My question is, and I had a thread about this not long ago, is where is that line where we cross from a trigger that can be shot well but is safe to a trigger that can be shot well but is unsafe?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Making it easy to shoot is a good thing for sure. But at what point is a trigger pull too light? I guess that this will differ person to person. Personally, I don't like a full or partially cocked striker fired weapon with a short trigger pull unless there is at least a manual safety but apparently tons of people are ok without - probably the majority since major gun releases dont include a manual safety and glock just doesn't even offer the option.

 

[lee n. field]

Once upon a time, I had a Bersa BP9cc which had a very light trigger. I loved the feel of that gun. As a CC gun, though, it made me a bit nervous. I ended up selling it because it refused to cycle hollow points reliably.

I handled one when they were first out, and thought the trigger was way, way too light forme to want to carry.

 

[wild cat mccane]

I don't know if it's about making people better shooters.

In DA you want a non stop pull? Just doesn't lend itself to accuracy. I mean, accuracy shooting tends to be in SA for revolvers, so it's not like someone recently tried to skip over the time honored tradition of learning a harder to use DA. Harder to use doesn't mean you haven't learned it, but reality that your hand shifts when you are pulling an inch at 12lbs.

Tunnel, check out this thread on your P365. I wouldn't say end there, but it might give you an idea on cleaning up that trigger. post 7 https://www.sigtalk.com/threads/increase-decrease-trigger-pull-weight.359846/

Gen2 LCP took more than half travel out of the Gen1 but only slightly reduced weight. So that it's a fake DOA, but doesn't change that the travel is the problem in a DA.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

I think it depends on what kind of accuracy you expect. I’ve been shooting DA revolvers for many years and I can empty my pistols at a fast steady rate out to ten yards and keep everything in a 4” circle. I don’t do bullseye shooting anymore due to age and eyesight, so I only shoot for defensive purposes and consider this to be accurate. There is a technique to doing this consistently and does take time and practice, but once you learn it you will become a better shooter all around.

 

[TunnelRat]

I
Tunnel, check out this thread on your P365. I wouldn't say end there, but it might give you an idea on cleaning up that trigger. post 7 https://www.sigtalk.com/threads/increase-decrease-trigger-pull-weight.359846/

Thanks. Right before you posted that I took apart the pistol again and polished the mating surfaces of the sear and striker with some Flitz. I’m not comfortable using a file or Dremel on those parts. In fairness they weren’t what I would call rough to begin with. The surfaces are not quite smooth now and the trigger is slightly better, but the staging/stacking feel is still there.

The observations in that post match my own. What’s interesting is all the individual moving parts on my pistol seem to move smoothly and freely, whether it’s the striker, the striker safety, or sear. Moving the trigger far enough to the rear for the sear to drop shows the sear spring to be heavy, but not gritty. Regardless when I put all the parts together it’s still a trigger that is to me mediocre. Mediocre isn’t bad, it’s just mediocre. It could be something on my pistol with the geometry of the parts with the pistol assembled. The trigger is nowhere near bad enough for me to start grinding on the sear and striker just for what’s left. It’s not a 1911 but I still shoot it well. I do think it’s better now so thank you for the encouragement to clean it up.


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[RWNine]

My 365 breaks at about 7# on my Wheeler gauge. My M&Ps are around 6#. Lighter than that won’t get carried.